Administration Is Bracing for Setbacks to Health Law

[BrentWil]

Source: NY TIMES

WASHINGTON — As the Obama administration presses ahead with the health care law, officials are bracing for the possibility that a federal judge in Virginia will soon reject its central provision as unconstitutional and, in the worst case for the White House, halt its enforcement until higher courts can rule.

The judge, Henry E. Hudson of Federal District Court in Richmond, has promised to rule by the end of the year on the constitutionality of the law’s requirement that most Americans obtain insurance, which does not take effect until 2014.

Although administration officials remain confident that it is constitutionally valid to compel people to obtain health insurance, they also acknowledge that Judge Hudson’s preliminary opinions and comments could presage the first ruling against the law.

“He’s asked a number of questions that express skepticism,” said one administration official who is examining whether a ruling against part of the law would raise questions about whether other provisions would automatically collapse. “We have been trying to think through that set of questions,” said the official, who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case freely.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/us/politics/27health.html?_r=1&hp

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Iow, no foresight.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. -puke- -puke- -puke- ad infinitum.

[gtar100]

49. If this were a republican issue, the framing would be different...

"Administration prepared to battle foes of health insurance reform."

I swear, the official Democratic Party has no sense of how to handle power. That is because they want it both ways - corporate money and a face of compassion for the people. Well it's just not possible. Corporate interests have shown themselves to be enemies of freedom and individual liberty. So, old allegory: you cannot serve two masters.

[BrklynLiberal]

56. VERY well said!

[No Elephants]

59. BINGO!

[kickysnana]

3. WH signals they will hand over the lunch money to the bullies...again..n/t

[pleah]

5. Yep. n/t

[4dsc]

4. Single payer... nt

[rocktivity]

8. Way ahead of you

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/rocknation/478

:headbang:
rocktivity

[pampango]

51. National health service. "Study: UK Only Rich Nation With Wide Access To Low Cost Health Care"

http://gantdaily.com/2010/11/19/study-uk-only-rich-nation-with-wide-access-to-low-cost-health-care/

A study by the U.S. health think tank Commonwealth Fund has identified Britain’s National Health Service as the only one among 11 rich nations that provide wide access to treatment at a low cost. The survey said only 6 percent of adults in Britain lacked recommended care, failed to see a physician when sick or did not have a prescription filled because of lack of money. In the U.S., about one third of Americans experienced different forms of inaccessibility to health care.

The survey, which had 19,700 patient-respondents from 11 nations, found that in the 10 other countries having money was a significant determinant of accessing health care services. Sick people who have incomes below the national average tended to have problems with paying their medical bills or getting care.

In terms of finding a doctor when sick, 70 percent of Britons found a physician within one day, while 57 percent of Swedes and Americans, and fewer than 50 percent of Canadians and Norwegians have the same easy access to a medical professional when needed most.

NHS also topped cost-effective tests with a spending on health per capita the lowest at $1,500, while in the U.S., the average was at $7,538.

[Fearless]

6. This is what happens when you compromise... they keep digging for more.

[Dinger]

10. No Shit

Damn, SSDD.

[italiangirl]

42. Health Care Lawsuit

This is what happens when you sleep with dogs, you get fleas.

[BrklynLiberal]

57. It is the old "give 'em a finger and they want the whole hand" concept.

But in this case, they were already offered the whole hand up front..now they want the entire arm.

[bemildred]

7. Dang, who could have predicted this? nt

[EarthFirster]

17. Glenn Beckster.....

even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

[bemildred]

21. He has a lot of company in that, me for example. nt

[Skittles]

23. ANYONE

[24601]

52. Any 1st year law student n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

9. SCOTUS will uphold that part---because it means more money for GOP SuperPacs.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Right. They'll just repeal the parts

that require the insurance companies to actually pay out on claims.

[Joe Bacon]

46. The corrupted Supreme Court will throw out everything except the mandates

No doubt in my mind the Court will throw most of the law out except the mandates by a 5-4 vote. Which is precisely what Mad Max Baucus really wants.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Take his efn insurance away.

And tell the elitist to read the Constitution regarding the public welfare.

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. +1. nt

[EarthFirster]

14. Have you ASKED your DOCTOR if he will stick around?

One, yes, one, not so sure.

SOOOOooooo, this will be leading to the importation of Third World Doctors to fill the huge-ass void,

And last time I listened to Sarota, most of the libs did NOT want this bill.


America is being downsized to third world status, wipe out the middle class, so socialism is truly on the way. Yummy


Have you ever talked to any Eastern-Blockers? I mean, Socialism is going to suck....

[LiberalFighter]

18. As typical, trolls don't have a clue about the facts.

If you don't like socialism you should leave the USA. And quit your church as religions rely on socialism within their church.

[JDPriestly]

37. I don't need to talk to Eastern-Blockers.

I lived in the UK, France, Germany and Austria -- and used the single-payer health insurance in each of them. It was great.

We already have so many doctors from the third world. Just look around you. Further, some of the doctors who may look "American" to you may have obtained their degrees outside the U.S. And some of the doctors you might think were born in other countries may not be.
No one can become a doctor without completing a residency or internship here, passing our state examinations and qualifying for a license. You are safe.

Further, in the European countries I lived in, the doctors made very good salaries compared to other people in those countries and seemed quite happy. That was especially true in France where I enjoyed some really outstanding medical care in a very difficult situation.

Your fears are not based on experience or reality.

Eastern Europe is not the prototype for the new health care insurance policy. The prototypes as I understand it are Sweden or Switzerland.

Our new bill does not change the doctors' salaries or the conditions of their work. You will still have to buy your insurance form a PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY.

The new program will not harm your coverage. It will help it.

Stop worrying. Stop listening to ignorant, right-wing propaganda. It's nonsense. Read the bill.

[eridani]

74. Private insurance is precisely the problem

The new bill will force us to buy useless underinsurance that no one can afford to use. Unlike the Netherlands or France, where the government dictates what will be in a universal comprehensive plan and what that plan must cost.

[dflprincess]

39. Yeah, Socialism sucks so badly that everyday thousands of

Swedes storm the U.S. embassy begging to be let into the U.S. :sarcasm:

(By the way, before you go back and repeat that to your uninformed friends as fact, you may want to check out the standard of living in Sweden.)

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mojorabbit]

43. My husband is a family doctor

and is not planning on going anywhere. What are you talking about?

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

50. Pretty freeperish, but given how this place has gone green party wild I don't really care.

It's been disappointing watching this place get taken over by leftist extremism.

[No Elephants]

65. The Green Party advocates seizing ownership of the means of production?

[COLGATE4]

58. If you had had the experience I had with 'Third World Doctors'

(who literally saved my life not once, but twice) you wouldn't be so quick to demean them. As another poster points out, there are a huge number of foreign-trained doctors in the US right now, and not coincidentally they are some of the best and brightest at our top-notch medical centers. Mine were at the University of Michigan Hospital, a highly respected teaching hospital, and without their expertise I was going going gone. Definitely a RW troll. I'm putting him/her on 'ignore'.

[24601]

54. Casting HCR as another welfare program is a sure losing strategy n/t

[LiberalFighter]

63. I'm putting the focus on crap they approve that should be considered socialist

to shut them up. They can't try to have it both ways.

Socialism is about people helping each other in the community or making life easier for everyone. If they don't want socialism then they better start with quitting their church, stop using public roads, transportation, libraries, schools, hospitals, weather services, etc.

[AllyCat]

15. Admittedly, I've always had a big problem with this part of the law

REQUIRING people to buy a private product is really not fair. Comparisons to laws that mandate buying car insurance really aren't the same. You can choose not to drive. You cannot choose (to a large extent) to NOT get sick.

Single payer would have skirted this whole problem. Compromise, indeed, was a weak position.

[EarthFirster]

16. Competition across state lines...

was the least of 2 evils.

The insurance companies signed ON to this bill, because it was a MANDATE that EVERYONE BUY IT.

bwuahahahahahhhaaahaaa...


This was never about health care, it was about that friggin common denominator...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Which I have to say, runs the world....

This totally sucks.

[Kennah]

20. There actually are Auto Insurance equivalents to Single Payer Health Insurance

When I lived in Maryland, for several years I was on MAIF.

https://www.maif.net/emaif/home.html

So why would the insurance industry not want the same for health insurance?

Simple, global, common denominator. Money, money, money.

Without health insurance, you don't go in for preventative maintenance and instead wait until you're seriously ill or skirting death. Heroic medical efforts can add up to huge bucks. They rape the family of the deceased for anything they can get, doctors get to experiment (Heh, he's gonna die anyway), and huge "loses" can be written off.

[Skittles]

24. it would be fine IF a PUBLIC OPTION was offered

requiring to buy from the same greedy bastards that CAUSED the wreckage we call "health insurance" in America is CRIMINAL

[lovuian]

27. Agree

they blew it and knew they blew it when the public option was not offered

[Skittles]

30. it is what made this so-called "health care reform" (PLEASE) a piece of GARBAGE

SHAME on them

[whathappened]

32. one point

insurance is mandated by law in the case of a teen age driver , if they get there licence , the insurance company can force u to insure them at what ever cost they deem fit

[BlueCaliDem]

33. That's true. Every time a child of mine turned 18, GEICO called me

to have them added to the policy for which I had to pay more even when they didn't have their driver's license. According to GEICO it doesn't matter. The law required all children in a household who turned 18 had to be added to the policy driving up my monthly premiums.

[Little Star]

34. not if the teenager does not drive.

[dflprincess]

40. But the law only requires you buy insurance to protect other drivers

you are not required to buy collision to protect your own car. (Unless you have a loan, but then it's a condition from the lender, not the state).

[JDPriestly]

38. If you can afford health insurance and don't buy it, you are either

taking a huge risk because as things stand now, if you have money you will pay maximum rates for your care and get sued if you don't pay. If you don't have money, you will have to pay out of pocket for your preventive care and doctor's consultations and if you have a big, expensive problem, you may not get care.

Under the new plan, if you can't afford health insurance, the government will either insure you under Medicaid or subsidize part of your expenses.

If, for some legitimate reason, you don't want or need health care, you may qualify for an exemption.

: Okay, so individuals will be legally mandated to enroll in health plans starting in 2014. But what if I don’t have enough money to buy one?
A: Until you turn 26, you will be eligible to be picked up by your parents’ coverage plan, starting six months after the bill becomes law — as long as your employer doesn’t offer you coverage. (New Jersey actually already allows people to be covered under their parents’ plans until their 31st birthday.)
In other cases, starting in 2014, when the requirements for individuals kick in, you will be eligible for subsidies if your income is between 133 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty level. (In 2009-10, the federal poverty level in the 48 contiguous states and Washington D.C. was $10,830 for one person, $14,570 for a family of two, $18,310 for a family of three, and $22,050 for a family of four). If you wish, you could apply for an exemption based on financial hardship.
If your income is less than 133 percent of the federal poverty level, you will be eligible for Medicaid under that program’s expansion.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/how_the_healthttp://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/how_the_health-care_bill_can_a.htmlh-care_bill_can_a.html

It is amazing to me that Americans don't wise up. Other countries insure everyone for far less a portion of their GDP than we do. We have a very low life expectancy for a country with our wealth. Although we have excellent doctors and hospitals, we get terrible health care because we don't pool our dollars to make sure that our health care money goes to treatment and not in the pockets of the super-rich who run health care insurance companies.

So you have to buy health insurance. Do you think that other people should have to pay for your care if you get cancer or diabetes or multiple sclerosis or have a serious accident and break your neck or hour hip?

[dflprincess]

41. 133% or 400% of poverty level sounds like a lot until you do the math and find out

that 133% of $10,830 is only $14,404 and 400% is $43,320. As always, government income limits bear no relation to what it actually costs to live. Also, note that these are the income limits whether a person lives in New York City or Rapid City.

And, as far as the subsidies go, they decrease as income nears the cut off limit and they will be in the form of a tax credit. Individuals will have to come up with the premiums before they get the credits (as well as deductibles and copays). And none of this guarantees a person will be able to see a doctor.

We needed reform that would give us access to care instead we got a mandate to buy the same old crap from the same old crooks.

[InkAddict]

70. The whole thing causes me unfathomable frustration and anxiety...

The handwriting is on the wall that my PT job will be soon be completely outsourced. At 59.9, it's surely going to be nigh unto impossible to be hired for a PT much less a FT position of any kind and not knowing when it's likely to come, Monday or two years from now, isn't helping in planning. My spouse, 3.8 years older, has strugged for many years to just be employed due to outsourcing, only twice in the last 20 years actually having an ANNUAL employed income as he continues to seek some form of employment that would augment or replace (fat chance) the lower benefits of the SS that the likes of Simpson would further reduce. By the time this HCR becomes effective, I could possibly be eligible for the lower benefits of SS as well, 3 years away from being eligible for Medicare and probably bringing our joint income to perhaps a little more than that 133% of poverty figure for the maximum subsidy, though rent, food, and transportation costs will surely continue to rise far beyond the limitations of the remaining budget once the required said policy is purchased. There are few disease processes on which Medicare coverage would even pick up large portions of costs associated w/the disease, certainly not the most common ailments, cardiovascular and cancer, treatments. We are reasonably healthy, meaning undiagnosed, I guess, at the present time, not having had medical/dental care now for at least five years. Pre-existing conditions, I laugh...Medicaid, at some point, would consume any of our remaining assets, converting us to the level of infants, with a $40 a month of (hahaha) disposible income. Should we bet on charity to pay the bills, shall we watch as the process that chiseled away our assets also swallows that of our children, young women, having a hard enough time in this crappy economy?

I am at a loss to make a plan other than sitting down and rocking. Any ideas?

[AllyCat]

75. The definition of "afford" is different for most Americans, especially when

compared to what the Federal government calls it. If either I or my spouse were to lose our jobs and had to buy insurance, we would certainly fit within this pricing scheme, but I doubt we would get one of the bigger subsidies, despite the fact that we would also likely be losing our house, our car, and having a hard time feeding our kids. And we are doing pretty WELL compared to a lot of people.

Applying for an exemption and actually being granted an exemption would remain to be seen.

Most people are NOT under the age of 26 and therefore, the first part is only helpful (thankfully it is there) for some.

In fact, I have a HUGE problem with paying for the care of people who have no insurance with MY insurance. However, I don't believe most people don't have insurance because they are some kind of deadbeat! What I don't mind paying for AT ALL is everyone else's care if we all get the same, quality treatment under a single payer or other type of system. I have NO PROBLEM having my tax dollars go to pay for other people's illnesses, health, etc. By your last statement, I am guessing that you do.

I'm sick of these insurance companies ripping people off while providing NO SERVICE. None. zilch. They don't do anything except launder the money. They are not health care professionals. They are con artists. I don't want to be mandated to buy their crappy product. Everyone should be covered in order to make the system cheaper. The way to do that is to provide universal care through a public insurance system say like the one in Germany, or a single payer system like Britain has.

[No Elephants]

62. Sick or healthy doesn't matter. Either you are poor enough to

qualify for government-provided programs, like Medicaid, or you qualify for Medicare, or you have to buy insurance from private companies.

[Smashcut]

19. I'm not the least bit upset about this

The government should not be able to compel citizens to buy products directly from a private cartel.

Sorry, but this is bigger than getting a "win" (which is not even a real win) for Obama.

[BzaDem]

26. Yeah, so much for the cancer patient who (if the mandate and therefore the pre-existing condition

clause are removed) will go back to having to pay 20 times as much as a healthy person.

[Vinca]

53. It's the rare cancer patient who can afford the pre-existing condition pool.

People are still dying needlessly.

[No Elephants]

67. Great argument--for single payer.

[ProSense]

22. Politics

<...>

Lawyers for Virginia have sought to turn one of the federal government’s arguments on its head. They note that the health law explicitly refers to the insurance requirement as “an essential part” of the act’s regulatory scheme, and that Justice Department lawyers — in pressing their point that the law permissibly regulates commerce — have called it the “linchpin.”

If it is so essential, Virginia’s lawyers have asked, why should a judge believe that Congress intended for the rest of the act to stand without it?

Any illusion that the cases are not highly politicized was lost when Republican leaders raced this month to file friend-of-the-court briefs in Pensacola, and Democrats responded with briefs from state legislators and supportive economists. Among the Republicans intervening in the case are Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio, the future speaker; 32 United States senators; and Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, a possible presidential candidate.

A White House official said that in the meantime “the litigation is really not having an impact” on the pace of putting the law into effect: “I talk weekly to officials in states that have sued us, and in states that have not. I cannot tell the difference between them.”

Judge appointed by Bush at that.

[MrTriumph]

25. The requirement should be disallowed.

It is astounding the administration asked for the requirement. The R's must have privately laughed at Pres. Obama. If ever there were a mandate to drive young voters away for the Democratic Party, this was it.

It is one thing to require taxes be paid. But to require health insurance be purchased? Sheesh.

[BzaDem]

28. In that case, the pre-existing condition clause would have to be disallowed too. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

44. Why? nt

[SoapBox]

29. I'm sure that we are going to see how Active, these Activist Judges will be...

in support of the RushThugs and GOBPers.

Who needs a Death Panel when we have The Party of NO!

[Rozlee]

31. OK, someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

This is confusing the heck out of me. Isn't this the part of the provision that was a sticking point for pre-existing conditions? As in, if you're not required to buy health insurance, but insurance companies can't discriminate against you for a pre-existing condition, what's to keep you from gaming the system, never buying insurance while you're healthy, and then quickly buying into it the moment you notice blood in your urine? I thought the Dems were catching the Rethugs in several "aha!" moments in this tail-chasing scenarios over not wanting to be mandated to buy insurance, but at the same time, not wanting anyone to get away with exploiting the system. Now, I may be wrong; my memory fogs up at times, especially since this whole argument was a year ago and was so traumatic, I've tried to block it all away. It's all to complicated for me. Rethugs never know if they're coming or going.

[girl gone mad]

72. You could do the same thing with the mandate in place.

Just pay the much smaller "fine" to the IRS and wait until you get sick to purchase health insurance.

Unless they raise the penalty to some outrageous amount, the mandate is an entirely ineffective tool to prevent the kind of tactic you describe.

[laughingliberal]

35. Once again, we see why the Senate is worthless:

<snip> Mr. Cuccinelli and the plaintiffs in the Florida case, who include attorneys general or governors from 20 states, have emphasized that Congressional bill writers did not include a “severability clause” that would explicitly protect other parts of the sprawling law if certain provisions were struck down.

An earlier version of the legislation, which passed the House last November, included severability language. But that clause did not make it into the Senate version, which ultimately became law. A Democratic aide who helped write the bill characterized the omission as an oversight. <snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/us/politics/27health.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&hp

[No Elephants]

64. OMA (Oversight, my ass.)

[Milo_Bloom]

36. We can only hope.

It's a shame that it is going to take the judicial branch to stop this idiotic provision.

[applegrove]

45. Isn't that the only part of HCR that republicans and private health insurers like?

Strange that that would be the one thing before the courts.

[laughingliberal]

47. Yes. It's too bad the Senate failed to put a severability clause in their bill (see #35)

That way, if the mandate went down as unconstitutional (I don't expect that to happen, btw) the rest of the bill would stand-the exchanges, the subsidies, the MLR ratios. The House, of course, did pass severability but the worthless, corporate owned Senate didn't and now call it an 'oversight.'

[24601]

55. Yes, but thankfully we still have Harry so he can continue this stellar

work. :sarcasm:

[laughingliberal]

66. And the POTUS so when Harry tries to do something like a Medicare buy in, the CofS can go over...

& tell him to knock it off.

[jamiefoxer]

60. awesome

thanks America....thank you for voting your frustration and impatience and voting in the very people who've been funding the corporations and the Tea Party Movement. Thank you for being absolutely ignorant and absolutely reluctant to pick up a book and read.

DU company excluded, of course :)

[IRemember]

61. The unprincipled apologists are unquestionably for this

Obama sold out ordinary people to insurance and pharmaceutical companies. The defense of this provision is inexcusable, and I hope the judge eliminates this requirement. We do not deserve to be at the mercy of companies that murder 50K people a year. This is anything but a "setback".

[bvar22]

68. Bracing for setbacks???

The White House is leading the charge in de-regulating the new Health Insurance Regulations:

Rules Eased for Some Health Plans

"Amid pressure from employers, the Obama administration on Monday loosened rules for bare-bones health-insurance policies. It marks one of the administration's biggest steps to peel back regulations that big business found onerous under the health- care overhaul."

<snip>

"Also, the administration this month made it easier for employers to switch carriers while retaining "grandfathered" status, which means they won't be required for the time being to follow certain new coverage mandates in the health law."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703559504575631100731134106.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

[laughingliberal]

71. Yes. Part of the 'new' approach to be more 'bidness' friendly. nt

[ProudDad]

69. They should have combined Medicare, Medicaid as a Public Option

for a national insurance pool...

And easily undercut the insurance mafia...

And Enabled negotiations with the drug pushers (PhRMA) and medical supply manufacturers to use the public clout to decrease costs...

Improved and Enhanced Medicare for All (who wish to sign up and save money)...

The fucking insurance corporations and Big PhRMA would have been left "twisting in the wind" with their high-priced "products"...

[tomp]

73. but wait! crappy as the hc"r" bill was.....

....was it not supposed to be the foot in the door that that would be incrementally IMPROVED.

and isn't obama supposed to be a constitutional scholar?

can you say OBAMA=FUCKING FAIL?