Japan No 2 core melted through reactor vessel: Rep. Markey

[Turborama]

Source: Reuters

20 mins ago-

The core at Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactor has melted through the reactor pressure vessel, Democratic Congressman Edward Markey told a hearing on the nuclear disaster on Wednesday.

"I have been informed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that the core of Unit Two has gotten so hot that part of it has probably melted through the reactor pressure vessel," said Markey, a prominent nuclear critic in the House of Representatives.

(Reporting by Roberta Rampton and Ayesha Rascoe)

Read more: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20110406/tpl-uk-japan-markey-02bfc7e.html

[thereismore]

1. As expected. nt

[aquart]

2. That's nice. NOW WHAT?

The thing they swore would never happen happened. NOW WHAT? What's the plan, geniuses? I know. Build more reactors.

[Xipe Totec]

3. China Syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Syndrome

[Raschel]

8. Although many feel the radioactive slag would stop at or before the underlying soil,

such a series of events could release radioactive material into the atmosphere and ground, potentially causing damage to the local environment's plant and animal life

[jwirr]

10. Except that it does not have to melt through crust of the earth to

reach China in this instance. All it needs is a wind blowing the right direction. We hear nothing about the effect on the countries closest to Japan.

[Raschel]

14. Actually, it says in the article that the term 'China Syndrome' is misleading.

It refers to a possible result of a catastrophic meltdown of a nuclear reactor.

I would imagine if fallout has reaced the midwest of the US, the countries close to Japan are nervous.

What really concerns me, and what is lacking in coverage is how long this has and will be going on. It's not like a one time leak occured.

[closeupready]

4. Especially since many US reactors have the same design, and sit on faults equally vulnerable.

As Fukushima.

We need to end nuclear in all forms - like YESTERDAY. :mad:

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

6. what you said....

[bvar22]

66. The LESSON from Fukushima:

It CAN and WILL happen again.
As long as we are using Nukes, its only a matter of time.

[defendandprotect]

68. +a zillion -- !!! They also need water -- one sits on Lake Erie, a source of drinking water -- !!

[Raschel]

11. Do they finally consider this 'worst case scenario'? What is the world doing about this?

Are we relying on just the worthless IAEA, or is the world convening to try to solve this nightmare?

The fallout has reached my city and I do fear for my children and grandchildren now. I just see this as getting progressively worse as it has from day one.

The information is lacking and conflicting.

I really don't care if others on this board, ridicule me, call me uninformed or whatever as seems to be the case around here at times when concern is voiced.

[CoffeeCat]

26. This situation is a shameless cover up!

You would have to be in severe denial or oblivious--to miss the cover up that is happening.

We are confused and asking questions because the information on this nuclear disaster is
being tempered with marketeering. Information is being hidden. The reality is covered up.

When the media reports on this story, it is obvious that there are more questions than there
are answers.

And this is a nuclear disaster we are talking about with global implications.

Anyone who makes you feel bad for asking questions about a situation that could impact the
citizens of this planet--has an agenda.

I have no agenda. I am not anti-nuclear power. However, I am a big proponent of knowing
what the TRUTH is so we can protect our families. We are not getting the truth!

Two weeks ago, radiation was found in milk, in rainwater and in the air--on the East Coast
and on the West Coast. That was two weeks ago! What is going on now?

And what about the radioactive fallout???? We need to know more than the fluctuating radiation
levels, which could easily be reported as low--when they are at their lowest. Are they
testing for radioactive materials that are actually coming from the steam cloud in Japan???

Who is testing for Cesium? Who is testing for radioactive Iodine-129 and Iodine-131? What
are the levels? These radioactive materials cause cancer and kill people!

[Raschel]

58. Thank you for posting so well the same questions and concerns that many of us have.

The biggest one being that this is NOT a static situation. They talk of safe levels of radiation as if this disaster is a one day event.

What about the cumulative effect?

[defendandprotect]

69. Agree -- except I do think all nuclear reactors should be shut down -- pronto!!

Global Warming is bringing increasing earthquakes and increasing their severity --

We've known about Global Warming since 1957 -- however, as the Nobel Scientists made

clear in 1992 -- "No one can say how all of this will compound" --

and that's quite clear!!

We have 106 nuclear reactors -- some sitting on faults -- all near water -- almost all

presenting evacuation problems. It's an insane way to boil water to create steam!


There's one sitting on Lake Erie -- a source of drinking water!!

[Raschel]

5. ....but it's stabilized.

(sarc)

And did you know they plugged the leak? But they still have to pump water into the ocean.

[caseymoz]

39. I guess they're pumping water into the ocean

To try to reduce the radiation around the ground, so they can work.

Unfortunately, that lets the rest of us have it.

[cui bono]

51. Why can't they bring some large vats to pump it into instead of the ocean? n/t

[grahamhgreen]

7. GE should pay, and be broken up. Epic FAIL. Wind is cheaper.

[jberryhill]

9. GE is a leading wind turbine maker, you want that to stop too?

[grahamhgreen]

59. NO, just spin off the wind division, break up the company into it's

constituent components, this way the nuclear division can not influence the board to hamstring the wind division because nuclear is more profitable for the company, even though wind is cheaper.

[defendandprotect]

70. Are they "making" the industry, or breaking it? We should get GE out of our lives!!

a corrupt right wing organization if ever there was one --

one of the first to defraud government on military contracts --

but never barrred from doing business with government -- !!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. As much as GE sucks

I don't know how much was GE's fault that the inspections of backup diesel generators and backup batteries was faked.

I suspect a bunch of Japanese managers sitting at a table just signing the test certifications without looking at anything, except maybe at the warm sake and warmer dancers on the meeting room table.

Certification Signing Parties, Oh Yeah!

edit to add: just more idle speculation. I was not there.

[cui bono]

53. Their design. Storing NUCLEAR WASTE on site for 8-10 years.

Not a good plan.

Do you think the reactors of similar design in this country are safe?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

54. Not sure how safe they are,

but I don't envision a tsunami on Lake Erie hitting the Fermi plant (the closest one).

I have doubts about the safety of any of them, and doubts about guaranteeing safe storage of fuel for the next 250,000 years.

[grahamhgreen]

60. Actually, they ignored the warnings of three of the design teams engineers,

so they are absolutely at fault and ALL of their assets should be used in this cleanup, if needed.

An organization that is pushing for unsafe nuclear energy that can end in situations similar to GE/Fukushima, should have it's corporate charter pulled. At the very least they should pay for the entire cleanup and be liable for criminal prosecution.


"ABC - Fukushima: Mark 1 Nuclear Reactor Design Caused GE Scientists To Quit In Protest"

"Thirty-five years ago, Dale G. Bridenbaugh and two of his colleagues at General Electric resigned from their jobs after becoming increasingly convinced that the nuclear reactor design they were reviewing -- the Mark 1 -- was so flawed it could lead to a devastating accident.

Questions persisted for decades about the ability of the Mark 1 to handle the immense pressures that would result if the reactor lost cooling power, and today that design is being put to the ultimate test in Japan. Five of the six reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant, which has been wracked since Friday's earthquake with explosions and radiation leaks, are Mark 1s.

"The problems we identified in 1975 were that, in doing the design of the containment, they did not take into account the dynamic loads that could be experienced with a loss of coolant," Bridenbaugh told ABC News in an interview. "The impact loads the containment would receive by this very rapid release of energy could tear the containment apart and create an uncontrolled release."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fukushima-mark-nuclear-reactor-design-caused-ge-scientist/story?id=13141287


On edit: Furthermore, it does not take a rocket scientist to realize that putting your backup generators in the basement and your containment pools 7 stories into the air was the opposite of proper design for an earthquake/tsunami zone.

[defendandprotect]

71. Designs of the plants are unsafe -- and GE is a corrupt and criminal corporation --

as right wing as they come!

[dipsydoodle]

12. That is considered to be pure speculation

Over emphasis on the word "probably".

[closeupready]

13. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission speculates with members of Congress?

I don't believe that for one minute.

[dipsydoodle]

16. Think whatever you wish

Its speculation.

[closeupready]

17. No, thanks. I'll believe the story, not your mischaracterization based upon nothing.

nt

[dipsydoodle]

19. Please yourself

I based it on live discussion with UK nuclear scientists live on tv news here in the UK about 15 minutes ago.

[closeupready]

25. I have no interest in

exchanging barbs with your snarky self. Putting you on ignore.

[fascisthunter]

31. funny how wrong you have been on this issue

yet the attitude never changes... good bye. Game over.

[dipsydoodle]

35. The report has already been dismissed by the NRC as being untrue.

So it follows that the UK scientists were correct in their own assessment. Where was I wrong ?

[dipsydoodle]

24. Cat got your tongue ?

NRC says not clear that Japan reactor has melted vessel :
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japan-no-2-core-melted-reactor-vessel-rep-20110406-074109-708.html

[uppityperson]

28. "probably" vs NRC's "not clear", Interesting difference in words in the articles. Thanks.

[kestrel91316]

15. People need to relax. The amount of radiation released is miniscule.

Much ado about nothing.
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:sarcasm:

[RC]

18. The important question is, did it melt through the containment structure?

Answer: No, it did not.
For some actual facts and real information that is otherwise so lacking on this subject around here...

Fukushima Nuclear Accident – a simple and accurate explanation

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

Don't forget to read the Comments.

[abqmufc]

21. I think the better answer is NO it hasn't YET.....

[dipsydoodle]

23. see post #22

:hi:

[2banon]

30. this link is dated March 15.

I'm doing quick a skim, not due to laziness but to lack of leisure time.. Isn't what is at issue is what is happening in past 24 hours?

[girl gone mad]

47. The most recent update on the page you link to is from 03/15

This accident didn't stop on the 15th.

There are newer posts in the comment section, but the posters don't seem to know anything useful.

[RC]

55. Corerect. And if it had melted through the bottom, I would think someone other than

the Anti-nukers would know.
All the stories I checked out were the same, as in the same single story just passed around, filling up the internet.

[girl gone mad]

57. Now you're just guessing..

like everybody else.

Already, you've posted disinformation claiming that recriticality and melting is impossible when the actual research proves it is possible and the conditions needed to cause these events were certainly present at Fukushima.

You need to watch your biases. Being pro-nuke doesn't give you carte blanche on scientific matters.

[daleo]

72. That will take a few more weeks

But I don't see how it can be prevented. Corium and all that.

[truthisfreedom]

20. This is not particularly good news. I fear the worst.

God, this makes me feel so ill.

[dipsydoodle]

22. NRC says not clear that Japan reactor has melted vessel

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A top official from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said on Wednesday it was not clear that Japan's Fukushima No. 2 nuclear reactor has melted through the reactor pressure vessel.

Earlier, Democratic lawmaker Edward Markey told a House of Representatives hearing on the nuclear disaster that the NRC had told him the core had melted through the vessel.

"That's not clear to us, nor is it clear to us that the reactor has penetrated the vessel," said Martin Virgilio, deputy executive director for reactor and preparedness programs at the NRC.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/japan-no-2-core-melted-reactor-vessel-rep-20110406-074109-708.html

Is Markey a full 10 cents ?

Its a sad world when someone puts me on ignore when I'm right on a subject and they hadn't even bothered to search further.

[uppityperson]

29. Thank you for illustrating why you need to check the sources. "probably" vs "not clear if has".

"Its a sad world when someone puts me on ignore when I'm right on a subject and they hadn't even bothered to search further."

Indeed.

[closeupready]

37. No, I've been here long enough that I've seen

people claim, for example, that people who speak in favor of multiple vaccinations of infants should actually be held above reproach while - at the same time - those who raise questions about vaccine safety are scumbags and "pro-polio".

There is no universe in which that logic is sound, and having witnessed such discussions unfold here, I have no interest in associating with such people. The discussion here was going in that direction, so life is too short to give harbor to rudeness on a board where we are supposed to be friends, and having friendly liberal conversations where everyone can learn new things.

People are free to disagree with me.

[DeSwiss]

38. +1000

:thumbsup:

[fascisthunter]

41. well said

kick

[PatSeg]

33. After seeing the article here

I turned on the TV and I still haven't seen anything about this story.

Edward Markey is highly regarded (well, maybe not by republicans), so I have to question what he was told by the NRC or whether this story was reported correctly.

[Turborama]

36. Who's put you on ignore and what's that got to do with this article anyway?

The article you have posted was written after and in response to the one I posted (which is the one your article is referring to).

"Earlier, Democratic lawmaker Edward Markey told a House of Representatives hearing on the nuclear disaster that the NRC had told him the core had melted through the vessel."

[dipsydoodle]

40. I've got better things to do

than have a go at you and I certainly didn't criticise your own post title which was posted in good faith but was subsequently overtaken by later events.

You've told me you get Sky so I'm guessing you may also have seen or subsequently seen the discussion on the subject with our Nuclear scientists dismissing the claim as being almost impossible.

With regard "what's that got to do with this article anyway?" Read forward from #12 which I'd posted having seen the UK discussion. I can't call out the person you know that. It can be deducted from those posts.

It was after that I googled your own heading and found the rebuttal from the NRC. The bit you've highlighted had turned out to be an outright lie - the NRC had NOT told him the core had melted through the vessel.

I don't trust people like Malarkey who maliciously lie to suit their own agenda.

[Turborama]

44. Actually, I saw the breaking news on Sky's news ticker.

Thought it was very important information that was worth sharing. Googled it. Found the Reuters article. Posted it here.

Then I went off and did something else.

I later came back and read your reply which reads like you were suggesting I had put you on ignore, which I haven't. I had missed the conversation upthread about someone putting you on ignore and just read it.

This is when I also found out that the NRC were saying they had NOT told him the core had melted through the vessel.

Glad we managed to clear that up.

I've had a look for and found exactly what he said and am going to post it below.

:hi:

[dipsydoodle]

46. All is cool then.

Which is good.

:hi:

[bowens43]

27. the article doesn't say what the title of the article says.....

it doesn't say that it melted through.

[2banon]

32. weird. that shite happens all the time.

I wish journalists/Editors headlined their articles with a modicum of accuracy.

That point aside, there odesn't seem to be much of any updated news on this matter other than a remark made by a Congress member at a hearing. Will have to go elsewhere other than Yahoo for actual news.

[PatSeg]

34. True

Very misleading and very annoying.

[Lucinda]

43. The OP made a direct quote of the website

both title and content

[dipsydoodle]

45. Was just unfortunate it turned out Markey has been economic with the truth.

which wasn't the posters fault.

NRC says not clear that Japan reactor has melted vessel
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFWNA555120110406

[Lucinda]

49. I wonder who Markey's source was?

This doesn't really refute anything. Public stance vs private perhaps? So much doubletalk it's hard to get at truth sometimes.

[Turborama]

50. I've posted the source below.

There is info in the emails which has been redacted but they still contain what they said to him.

[Lucinda]

52. Thanks!

I didn't doubt that he was told what he was told. The quasi-clarification by the department when it went public isn't unexpected either.

[Turborama]

48. Here is exactly what he said, plus a copy of the email he received from NRC

April 6, 2011: Statement at Hearing on Nuclear Power Plant Incident in Japan
Statement of Congressman Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.)
“The U.S. Government Response to the Nuclear Power Plant Incident in Japan”
Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations
April 6, 2011

“On March 28, 1979, almost exactly 32 years ago, a partial core meltdown at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant terrified the nation and caused a full-scale re-evaluation of the nuclear industry in our country.

“On April 26, 1986, almost exactly 25 years ago, the meltdown caused by the Chernobyl nuclear power plant spewed highly radioactive smoke all over Europe. Again, the world was appalled, and promised increased safety.

“Today, we see that we are just as helpless when faced with nuclear disaster as we were 25 and 32 years ago.

“The cores of at least two of the Japanese reactors are severely damaged. I have been informed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that the core of Unit Two has gotten so hot that part of it has probably melted through the reactor pressure vessel.

“To bring the reactors and their spent fuel pools under control, the Japanese have had to resort to sending young workers in to risk their lives as they operate what amount to giant water guns.

“To assess and then sop up the radioactive water that has begun spewing into the ocean, they are relying on the use of bath salts and diapers.

“Just like the use of pantyhose and golf balls to stop last year’s oil spill, the Japanese have been compelled to try a “nuclear junk shot” in desperate attempts to stop an environmental calamity.

“Yet the Nuclear Regulatory Commission insists that our systems are safe, even before beginning, let alone completing, its review of our reactors and spent fuel pools.

“It does so in the face of its own analysis showing that there is a higher risk of core damage from earthquakes that has not yet been incorporated into regulatory requirements.

“It does so in the face of backup electricity requirements that are generally less stringent than what the Fukushima reactors were equipped with.

“And it does so after removing the post-Three Mile Island requirement to include systems to prevent the explosions of hydrogen that occurred at Fukushima from its regulations.

“I have introduced legislation, the Nuclear Power Plant Safety Act of 2011, to impose a moratorium on all pending NRC licenses and re-licenses in light of the need to fully understand the safety risks and include remedies into our own regulations. Many other countries have announced similar measures. I look forward to today’s testimony.”

Information on the latest status of the Fukushima reactors was gathered from communications between Congressman Markey’s office and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC).

Emails from NRC http://markey.house.gov/docs/4-6-11.markey_e-mail_1_-_nrc_question_regarding_fukushima_unit_2.pdf">here and http://markey.house.gov/docs/4-6-11markey_e-mail_2_-nrc_question_regarding_fukushima_unit_2.pdf">here. (PDFs)

From: http://markey.house.gov/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=4293&Itemid=125

Videos of his statement...

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7BexcMkv8

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_s2YFQMEws

Also just posted in the videos forum: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=570857&mesg_id=570857

[Turborama]

56. Even though his name was redacted, I've found out who sent Markey the email...

Conflicting Details Emerge About Status Of Japanese Nuclear Reactor

By Tennille Tracy, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

=snip=

Markey, a vocal critic of nuclear power, says a member of his staff received an e-mail Tuesday from an NRC official stating the core "may be out of the reactor pressure vessel."

"Based on radiation readings in the drywell and the torus ... the NRC staff speculates that part of the Unit 2 core may be out of the reactor pressure vessel and may be in the lower space of the drywell," according to a copy of the e-mail provided to Dow Jones. "Lower radiation readings in the torus suggest that there is not core material in the torus."

The e-mail was sent by Timothy Riley, a congressional affairs officer with the NRC.

It is unclear whether Virgilio or other NRC officials are aware of the e-mail Riley sent Markey's staff. An NRC spokesman didn't respond to immediate requests for comment.

Full article: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201104061352dowjonesdjonline000545&title=conflicting-details-emerge-about-status-of-japanese-nuclear-reactor

[dipsydoodle]

61. He changed "may" to "probably"

which I remain convinced was immoral for him to do.

Whatever - I'll drop it now.

Good morning. :hi:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

62. A more detailed NY Times article on the subject: Core of Stricken Reactor Probably Leaked, U.S. Says

WASHINGTON — The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Wednesday that some of the core of a stricken Japanese reactor had probably leaked from its steel pressure vessel into the bottom of the containment structure, implying that the damage was even worse than previously thought.

<snip>

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s statement regarded unit No. 2, and the agency underscored that its interpretation was speculative and based on high radiation readings that Tokyo Electric had found in the lower part of unit No. 2’s primary containment structure, called the drywell. The statement said that the commission “does not believe that the reactor vessel has given way, and we do believe practically all of the core remains in the vessel.”

The agency’s statement was issued after Representative Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, told a House hearing on Wednesday morning that the commission had told him that the core had melted through the vessel.

He based that on a question his staff had asked the agency. But the agency responded to him by e-mail on Tuesday without directly addressing possible melting, saying only that it speculated that “part of the Unit 2 core may be out of the reactor pressure vessel and may be in the lower space of the drywell.” After the hearing, in response to numerous questions, the agency said that “there are possible leakage paths from the reactor vessel into the drywell.”

It did not say whether the fuel was molten or solid. If molten fuel has left the reactor’s pressure vessel and reached the drywell in substantial quantities, it raises the possibility that the fuel could escape the larger containment structure, leading to a large-scale radioactive release.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/world/asia/07japan.html?src=me

[Turborama]

63. The NYT are lying about what he said as well?

NYT:

"Representative Edward J. Markey, Democrat of Massachusetts, told a House hearing on Wednesday morning that the commission had told him that the core had melted through the vessel."

No, what he said was:

"The cores of at least two of the Japanese reactors are severely damaged. I have been informed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that the core of Unit Two has gotten so hot that part of it has probably melted through the reactor pressure vessel."

Full transcript and video here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4802920&mesg_id=4803865

[Lone_Star_Dem]

64. I always say that one needs to pay very close attention to what is and isn't in quotes

Notice how they don't have that statement in quotes in the article? In modern journalism paraphrasing is as common, if not more so, than quoting. Not that there's anything wrong with paraphrasing in general. The problems only arise when the finished rendition doesn't accurately match the original intent. Which happens with at an alarming frequency anymore.

[Turborama]

65. When paraphrasing doesn't accurately match what someone says, it's at best misinformation

At worst disinformation.

I should have added ("probably") to the title of this OP to make it clear what he actually said. I was in a rush when I posted it and made a mistake which was too late to fix when I noticed it.

The authors of the article in the OP should have done it themselves in the 1st place, though, and there is no excuse for that.

There's no excuse for The NYT misrepresenting what he actually said, either. The transcript and video are easily available.

In fact, they said Markey stated it as a fact after they themselves said "probably" in their own title and article:

Core of Stricken Reactor Probably Leaked, U.S. Says

The United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Wednesday that some of the core of a stricken Japanese reactor had probably leaked from its steel pressure vessel into the bottom of the containment structure, implying that the damage was even worse than previously thought.

That is really sloppy journalism.

This is not meant as a slight on you in any way, BTW. The rest of the article is interesting and they have some good graphics on the left. Thanks for sharing.

[defendandprotect]

67. K/R