Labor angered by Obama's willingness to cut Social Security in debt ceiling deal

[Omaha Steve]

Source: The Hill

By Kevin Bogardus

President Obama’s apparent willingness to discuss Social Security cuts in the debt-ceiling negotiations with Congress has angered labor unions and could cause them to withhold support for Democrats in the next election.

Press reports say President Obama is considering a proposal to change how Social Security payments are calculated by chaining payments from the program to the Consumer Price Index. That change would help bring down the national debt but would likely reduce benefits for retirees.

Unions are making it known that Social Security cuts are unacceptable to them and say they will lobby against any cuts to the popular entitlement program.

“I think this is a huge political mistake for Democrats,” Chuck Loveless, legislative director for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), told The Hill.


Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/170557-labor-angered-by-obamas-willingness-to-cut-social-security-

---

Omaha Steve is a proud AFSCME member.

[polichick]

1. At least some people are awake!

[Fearless]

136. +1

[SharonAnn]

170. I am completely outraged by Obama's capitulation to the R-W

Both the capitulation to their:
1. Talking Points
2. Programs
3. Program Cuts
4. Lack of Revenue Increase

There is no Hope in Obama's rhetoric and no Change in his recommendations.

He needs to grow a pair of big b---s.

[cui bono]

177. He doesn't want to. He's doing exactly what he want to do. It's just not what's good for us. n/t

[mitchtv]

2. I support Labor and Jobs with Justice

watch out blue dogs, remember Blanche Lincoln.

[Long Shadow]

10. So, John Boozman is preferable to a Blue Dog, eh?

[mitchtv]

28. sometimes it takes a while to get the right person

it is a clumsy process, to push out a DINO.One thing was sure, she was useless and had to go. Too bad the DINO establishment backed the wrong candidate. We don't owe our vote to anyone, Lincoln is an example of what happens when the people get enough of "you have nowhere else to go"

[WCGreen]

31. It's not the candidates we need to change...

It's the people who vote for those candidates...

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Bingo. It's up to the Democratic Party to educate those voters

and stop assuming they'll come to their senses, so we can get true progressives as opposed to CONservative Dem regressives, on the ballot.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

146. It's both. Also the DNC, a supporter of conservative incumbents that attacks other

Democrats in primaries, instead of remaining neutral and letting Democratic voters decide.

[No Elephants]

145. At least the Democratic Party is not to blame for Boozman's conservative votes.

So, in some ways, yes.

[somone]

3. Recommended

[EFerrari]

4. K&R

[florida08]

5. why this POTUS made if part of the national debt

is curious indeed. Never should have been. If he needs the republican vote that bad go join their party.

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[roxiejules]

21. Obama made it a part of the 2007 primary race, too

Obama put Social Security on the table during the 2007 primary season against Clinton.

Sen. Barack Obama yesterday slammed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for "ducking the issue" of ensuring the solvency of Social Security and signaled that he will take a more aggressive approach to the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

It’s astounding to see a Major Dem (Obama) pimping Social Security as a big, troubling issue. It’s astounding to see one Dem attacking another because she won’t go along with that plutocrat claim—especially when he’s been reciting the old chestnut about college kids. This claim has been the tool of plutocrats over the course of the past twenty-five years. Now, we see a Major Dem pimping this line—and criticizing Clinton’s troubling “character” because she won’t go there with him. By the way, tell us again: Which of these two is the “liberal?”

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/10/29/171748/53

"All of which makes it just incredible that Barack Obama would make obeisance to fashionable but misguided Social Security crisis-mongering a centerpiece of his campaign. It’s a bad omen; it suggests that he is still, despite all that has happened, desperately seeking approval from Beltway insiders." - Paul Krugman

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/why-barack-... /

[larwdem]

41. I hope

hillary runs a primary on him :puke:

[JDPriestly]

66. What makes you think that Hillary seriously supports Social Security?

She is just another Blue Dog.

I saw a video some years ago of Hillary at a meeting with Code Pink. They had been to Iraq and were reporting back to Hillary about conditions there. They begged Hillary not to vote to support the Iraq War. She dismissed them arrogantly. I have not cared for Hillary since watching that video.

[Enthusiast]

95. I agree.

Hillary would have been as satisfactory to the Robber Barron PTB as Obama is.

[coalition_unwilling]

118. 'Arrogance' - the one word that best captures Hilary, There was

ample evidence that Iraq had no WMD and no ties to al Quaida before Daschle and Gebhardt made their concordat with Bush in October 2002. I knew after about 30 minutes' research that Bush was blatantly lying about the ties to al Quaida and, after about 3 hours of research, that he was lying about WMD. If I knew all this after only 3.5 hours' research, then why did Hilary (and Kerry for that matter) vote for Shocking and Awful? Why? Because Hilary is arrogant and, until primary 2008, thought her actions had no consequences.

[cpwm17]

133. And here's the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtK9AzcU42g

Perhaps code pink was naive concerning Hillary's position about war, or they thought they could change her position. But they were right about the war. Anyone paying attention and possessing a few brain cells knew before the war started that the war was unprovoked and rationalized with lies.

Hillary has always been a war monger. It was a red flag when President Obama picked her to be Secretary of State.

[truedelphi]

186. Thank you for the link. Also,

A POTUS is merely a person who has received enough money and support from the Inner Circle of Ruling families to run for the Highest Office.

Only one such person has ever abdicated their position of loyal acquiescence to those who put him in power. That one was FDR.

Obama talked in terms of being a progressive in October 2008. (YouTube vids of his speeches to Wisconsin speeches indicate what a "lefty" he pretended to be.)

But he tipped his hand to everyone when on the last "Sixty Minutes" in Nov of 2008, he stated that "Hank" (that is, Paulson) was doing a good job.

And his appointments have pretty much been along that same line. Geithner, the Monsanto cartel of Mike Taylor and Valsick, etc, they all show the people who understand such appointments who this guy Obama is.

He is a friend to Big Energy, Big Finance, the War Cartel, The Homeland Security Sham performers, et al.

Also any and every rich billionaire begging for tax relief.

And our environment is being degraded as I type this, for the sake of clean en ergy, that is, natural gas.

[florida08]

147. thanks

I remember Obama talking up raising the cap on SS but he does flip flop

Q: You said earlier this year that everything should be on the table for Social Security, including looking at raising retirement age, indexing benefits, and then suddenly you said, “I’m taking them off the table.”
A: That’s not what I said. I said I will convene a meeting as president where we discuss all of the options that are available. I believe that cutting benefits is not the right answer; and that raising the retirement age is not the best option, particularly when we’ve got people who are still in manufacturing.

Q: But in May you said they would be on the table.

A: Well, I am going to be listening to any ideas that are presented, but I think that the best way to approach this is to adjust the cap on the payroll tax so that people like myself are paying a little bit more and the people who are in need are protected. That is the option that I will be pushing forward.

[still_one]

52. Not only that they should have stood firm when the repukes linked raising the debt limit to the

Deficit.

[truedelphi]

63. Yep. My sentiments exactly

I will support Obama night and day the minute I turn into a Republican

[AzDar]

6. K & R

:kick:

[Palmer Eldritch]

7. To be angry at someone for something they never proposed is unproductive.

[The Big Vetolski]

8. Obama proposed signing the Employee Free Choice Act into law.

He didn't even try to get it done. Does that not justify union anger all by its lonesome?

[Palmer Eldritch]

9. Did it pass the House or Senate? He can't sign it until that happens.

[The Big Vetolski]

11. Irrelevant. He didn't even lobby for it. That's what's important. nt

[Palmer Eldritch]

16. So you know his schedule? Just because you didn't see an article or a presser

doesn't mean he did nothing.

Some things are just DOA in Congress.

[The Big Vetolski]

19. I disagree with you, man. If Obama had even given a speech

supporting EFCA AFTER he was inaugurated, made that a priority, and publicly pushed hard for it, even if it had not passed the unions wouldn't be so upset with him. He did NOTHING public or visible, nothing. You cannot deny that.

People like you seem to have forgotten an old American tradition, best summed up by David Crockett when he said, "Be sure you're right. Then go ahead."

Just because some snout-counter said the EFCA couldn't get past the Senate in 2009 does not mean that Obama shouldn't have tried. He should have tried. Even if he had failed, like Harry Truman did when he tried to get socialized medicine passed, it would have been a failure in TRYING to do the right thing.

Obama didn't even try. That's the point.

[No Elephants]

151. Almost as bad as the public option. With that, he made speeches

calling it relatively unimportant and a sliver. Quite the change from what he had said during his campaign.

IMO, he had bargained away during his very early meetings with the death panels of the unhealth industry.

[haydukelives]

109. the point of having a president

is to push your agenda. He (President Obama) hasn't done that.
I, my wife, my son, and his family still don't have health insurance.
He (President Obama) hasn't tried hard enough to move the agenda forward.

[No Elephants]

150. Obama is not known for his silence when he makes an effort.

What are the odds that he remained silent about something like his efforts for EFCA when unions are still the single biggest contributor group to Democrats.

[Omaha Steve]

26. Yes it passed the house

Lincoln and Ben Nelson kept us from ending the filibuster (cloture) vote in the Senate.

[The Big Vetolski]

53. Thanks. I forgot about that. Anyway, Obama did nothing to push

for Senate passage. Nothing big and public, anyway.

[eilen]

106. Actually he rewarded Lincoln by campaigning for her in 2010

He has time for that it seems.

[Art_from_Ark]

141. Not only that

He campaigned for Lincoln in the *Democratic primary* for crying out loud, and her opponent was a *pro-labor Democrat*.

[No Elephants]

152. Hell, he and the Clintons campaigned hard against Lamont. when Lamont ran against LIEberman,

and Lamont was no liberal. Still, Lamont would probably not have kissed Bush or campaigned for McCain.

[Omaha Steve]

143. He promised Lincoln he would help her so she would vote for Obama care

That was the reason he helped her.

[No Elephants]

153. I don't know that we have evidence of that, but wouldn't it be bribing a member of Congress for a

specific vote? Guess it would depend on how he phrased it, assuming you are correct.

Still, nothing explains his primary support in primaries for other neocons, ike Joe Lieberman, for one.

I think the man is simply conservative.

[eilen]

166. Interesting, she had him over a barrel.

she was constantly shifting between yes and no. Obama could have just threatened to support her primary challenger and then campaigned for some real democrats instead.

[disillusioned73]

167. Ding!!

[eilen]

182. and me being just a nurse....no Harvard Educated Constitutional

Scholar.

I would not want to buy a car with this guy.

[JDPriestly]

68. Part of the president's job, part of his power, is to use his

bully pulpit to excite the public to insist that their congressional representatives and senators bring up and vote for certain bills.

[No Elephants]

155. +1

[No Elephants]

149. Yes, a President can do absolutely nothing but sign or not sign.

:sarcasm:

[Hawkowl]

134. Not true.

It is highly productive to be angry at the President for the cowardly way he leaked, insinuated, and floated this reprehensible idea. And then HIRED people to deny it for him. Maybe you know some of these people? Eh?

[lobodons]

12. Ask WI Union members how sitting out elections is working for them

Obama pisses me off too. BUT when I look at the alternative, it is imperative that he gets re-elected. That's our system. It is not perfect (see Florida 2000 and Wisconsin 2010) but it is what we have. Just think where we'd be if McCain/Palin won in 2008. At the very least I see a World wide depression, SCOTUS with a 7-2 conservative majority and DADT still in force. ALL Dems, Progressives and Independents NEED to get behind Obama and make sure he gets re-elected. Sure Obama is not perfect, but in our system, look at the alternative.

[mymomwasright]

18. 'Meh, who else you going to vote for? Tee-hee!'

That must be his attitude for this election. It's crazy that in a time when fierce leadership is needed, we are forced choose the capitulating bad negotiator!

[lobodons]

22. I agree that it sucks

But there is no way a responsible American can let the GOP get elected in 2012!!!!! Just look at how even in the minority they are hijacking our country. My god, just think if they had the majority and the WH. Rule by Taliban comes to mind.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. My State had the hightest midterm turn out since the 80's.

Those who speak of sitting it out are mostly from States that sat it out, lost a pile of seats and still try to appease the Republicans.

[No Elephants]

156. Why, while in the minority AND when in the majority, are they able to hijack our country?

They are getting plenty of co-operation from Democrats, that's why.

Rule by the Taliban is bs.

[KoKo]

112. We need to vote on what we are MORE AFRAID OF...than folks to Move us Forward?

Is that what you are seeing?

[Omaha Steve]

Labor turned out last Nov better than any other group in the party by far!

Labor didn't sit it out. We kept it from being much worse. When I get time I'll try to find that story and link.

Labor kept Harry Reid in office when he trailed in the polls. Nationwide labor knocked on doors, made phone calls, gave money,waved signs,...

Labor has the only Democratic PACs (AFSCME, SEIU, NEA)in the top 10 $ list.

[JoeyT]

71. Yeah, but they don't need us!

Given the lack of enthusiasm by everyone that isn't somehow making money off the capitulations, I can't imagine what the phone banking is going to sound like.

"Vote For Obama! Or don't. I don't care. Fuck it."

[neoralme]

137. The phone banking will be contrived rather than real, imo.

[No Elephants]

157. +1. Scapegoating Labor is demonstrably false.

[DesertFlower]

81. i have to agree with you. nt

[Mechasr]

104. Couldn't have said it better !

[bread_and_roses]

115. and ask NY union members how a Dem gov is working out for them

... the persuasiveness of "so and so is worse than..." diminishes when both alternatives are bad. The Ds are no more fighting for working people or any less in the pockets of our Corporate Overlords than are the Rs - they just advocate for a slower death. And so, no, it is not "imperative that he get re-elected." His re-election means a slower death, but it is still death.

[MattSh]

142. Yep...

The destination is the same, the only difference is how quickly one arrives there.

I'm thinking it's better to hit the wall quickly and wake people up quickly than to drag it out forever.

[No Elephants]

176. Massachusetts did something similar to Wisconsin. Gov. is Dem and Legislature is well over 90% Dem.

However, unions in Massachusetts did nothing. No pickets, no demonstrations, no speeches, no protests of any kind. So, both Democrats and unions looked bad, IMO.

[bread_and_roses]

184. That was a mystery to me too, NE - very disheartening (n/t)

[midnight]

148. What are you talking about? In 2000 Karl targeted Florida, and in 2010 he

targeted Wisconsin... The GAB of Wisconsin helped created a shit storm here by assisting the Republicans with a software program that could be manipulated... Abusive voting fraud is not the fault of the unions. That world wide depression you see is being carried out by the assistance of Timmy. The Supreme court conservative majority seems to be protected by the administrations lack of support for Anthony Weiner's efforts to remove one for federal offenses.. Sitting out elections should not be the focus of bad govt... Bad Govt. needs to change.... Bad government has no incentive to change because they scapegoat those refusing to back them....

[No Elephants]

158. Lack of support for Weiner is understating it. The calls of Democrats for

Weiner's resignation were a loud and relentless drumbeat.


That was not simply Democrats randomly and coincidentally unifying against Weiner and shoving themselves onto every news and politic show in sight.

[Odin2005]

13. We've been had. Obama is a Puke in Dem garb.

[MissDeeds]

55. Yep, the fix was in

He's bent over time and time again to placate them while dissing bedrock Dem constituents: unions, teachers, the working class, the poor, the elderly...the list goes on and on. All the while he has given cover to corporate bigs and looked the other way while Wall Street gave golden parachutes to their CEOs. He is not the best this party has to offer, not by a long shot, and we better damn well wake up to that fact while there is still time. He needs to be primaried.

[No Elephants]

159. Well, he's not going to be primaried unless he's caught in bed with a minor child or something

of that magnitude.

[The Big Vetolski]

14. Why should unions be held to a different standard than the Tea

Party or the Chamber of Commerce or the Association of Manufacturers or the American Petroleum Institute or Grover Norquist's pack of loons?

All of those organizations withhold their endorsement from any candidate, regardless of party, who acts in ways they consider detrimental to their interests.

Yet unions are expected to endorse Democrats no matter what they do that harms the interests of unions and their members.

This makes no sense to the Dude.

[No Elephants]

162. Union leaders have started to point out that they are not obliged to support Dems.

It's been a long time coming, and I have not yet seen much action on it. To the contrary, an overwhelmingly Democratic Massachusetts legislature voted against collective bargaining for state employees and a Democratic Governor signed the bill while unions were demonstrating in Wisconsin. Not a word, a picket sign or a whimper from the unions.

It was embarrassingly noted by local media--and still is, whenever a Democratic candidate for almost any state or federal office is interviewed.

[Nossida]

15. adjustments not cuts

Its clear 'Means Testing' for Social Security
is an option. And there are very many Double
Dippers out there, who need to be cut off.

Some unfortunate people out there are going to
suffer, due to many scoundrels who have done
nothing but Exploit the system. The Disabled
who have no ability to generate income will
suffer the most.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. the Hill is not exactly the best source regarding Obama or any other Democrat

and just a brief look at those reporters (like A.B. Stoddard) says enough. The Hill is part of the tone-deaf beltway media - and we know how they loathe Democrats. Rachel Maddow has lamented their skewed reports time and again.

I'm still astounded people are confusing President Obama's stated goal to cut COSTS not benefits.

Means testing is one way to cut costs since you have millionaires and billionaires (all the old geezers in the GOP in Congress, for example) drawing and double dipping from both programs. This has to change. They don't need it, but the disabled do, but if we don't find a way to cut costs, you can be sure the disabled and the most vulnerable among us, will suffer, not the millionaires and billionaires.

[Leontius]

45. Social Security has contributed exactly this much to the deficit

and national debt of the US 0 dollars and 0 cents. It has NO PLACE being mentioned in this debate PERIOD. I don't care what anyone wants to call it, as far as I am concerned it is a complete betrayal of the Democratic Party and its avowed principles.

[BlueCaliDem]

50. I understand that since SS is separate from the budget

but even you can't deny we need to cut costs in Social Security. Means testing is one good way. Stopping Congress from dipping into the funds whenever they please (like, for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars so the wealthy's taxes won't be raised), would be another.

Leaving things as they are now, noting the above, will ensure less and less benefits will be paid out, and the first to suffer are the handicapped and their monthly SSI.

[Leontius]

62. All we need to do is continue to raise the cap as the income of the one percenters r

Means testing not so sure but a cap on max benefits linked to real life cost of living increases maybe. I know the rich don't need the checks but they pay they get benefits or the whole premise of the program has a fundamental change. Didn't mean to imply that you didn't know the difference but some people still do think it is all one budget thanks to the way the debate and the info is being handled by the press.

[BlueCaliDem]

131. Your idea is better. Raising the cap of one percenters would be a much better idea

since they stop paying FICA in March, while the rest of us pay throughout the year. That would help, but that would also be seen as a means test. Wouldn't it? At least, that's how corporate media would handle this change.

[DesertFlower]

82. just the opposite. the fund has been

raided to pay for other things.

[larwdem]

48. look

It don't matter if he just cuts costs the Republicans can and will turn it on obama and the Dem's its to late already:banghead:

[BlueCaliDem]

51. The Republicans are not the problem. Pro-GOP corporate media, is.

They're already framing it as if President Obama and the Democrats want to cut benefits (they denied such a thing - even having to correct the media that COSTS should be tweaked - but the well-paid corporate whores, otherwise known as reporters, are tone-deaf, because they've seen the anger among voters when VoucherCare passed the House no matter how hard they tried to put the lipstick on that particular pig.

Now corporate media want to shove it on the Democrats to protect their faved political party - the GOP - in next election. They know when President Obama gets a second term, he's not going to be as nice as he's been in his first since he can't run for a third term, right?

[larwdem]

57. agree

Media whores no offense to sex workers:rofl:

[liberation]

77. "The Republicans are not the problem. Pro-GOP corporate media, is."

they why did you use Republican narrative in your previous post?

[BlueCaliDem]

132. ???

What Republican narrative, exactly?

[No Elephants]

161. Means testing is a very slippery slope. And, unless applied only to

those just entering the work force, is highway robbery. Raising the cap is a far fairer way to get at the millionaires and billionaires, and there are other fairer ways.

As far as double dipping, you cannot collect under any pensio, system unless you paid into it. My mailman had finished paying into one system and had also paid into Social Security, when Reagan announced an end to so-called double dipping for federal employees. And my mailman feels robbed of his contributions.

AFAIK, state and local employees get only their state retirement plan. At least, I got no OASDI credit for the time I worked as a public school teacher.

[whathehell]

65. Why not simply raise the cap? n/t

[Fuddnik]

75. I asked a Republican Congresswoman that exact question at a town hall.

Her answer?

"Contrary to internet rumors, they do pay into Social Security. And that raising the cap, would be a tax increase on THEM. There's no way in hell Congress will do that".

It's about them, and nothing but lip service.

[DesertFlower]

84. raising the cap or eliminating it

would affect me. every year around september hubby reaches the cap. nice to have that extra hundred bucks every month, but if it will save social security it's okay with me. we're not rich. why should the rich complain about it?

[whathehell]

90. Her answer was that congress people pay into social security?

I don't think that's true, but the "don't touch the

wealthy"meme fits.:puke:

[No Elephants]

172. Never trust a Republican. The fix is very easy, as she probably knows.

Let's say the top salary in Congress is $200,0000 a year. You leave everything as is with respect to salaries under $200,000, then start taking out taxes again on amounts over that.

[sulphurdunn]

92. Wall Street got $700 billion

in cash, no strings attached and investment banks can borrow money interest free from the Treasury and use it to buy the public debt at interest that they are primarily responsible for creating while receiving a $7 trillion guarantee against their bad debt risk by the same government that subsidizes their handing out of $20 billion on average every year now in cash bonuses.

The Pentagon can't account for $2.3 trillion missing dollars. This is above and beyond the $9 billion in cash that went missing in Iraq, or the $1.8 trillion already spent on Iraq and Afghanistan, or the $3 billion a month it takes to fund them.

Then there is the matter of the whole rest of the redistribution of the nations wealth through tax and fiscal policy that allows corporations to squat on about $2 trillion in cash while permitting many of them to pay no taxes. Then there is the little matter of 50 hedge fund managers who pay 15% tax rates on a collective annual income of $200 billion (that's not a typo), which is about $75 billion more than the total budget deficits of all 50 states. I could go on and on, but I fail to see how "some unfortunate people will have to suffer" as tough it were inevitable because of this criminal activity.

[SusanaMontana41]

130. Cut off benefits to people who contributed to Social Security?

Not sure I agree with that.

[No Elephants]

160. Means testing would be massive fraud and a very slippery slope.

The disabled would suffer, but many retirees are disabled, too. Also suffering will be survivors of a deceased worker who may also be disabled or too young to work.

Not sure what you mean by Double Dippers. State workers are not usually eligible for OASDI and Reagan cut off federal double dippers, even though they had paid into both systems.

"Some unfortunate people out there are going to suffer, due to many scoundrels who have done
nothing but Exploit the system."

I call bs. You can't exploit OASDI. It is insurance. You are not eligible for it unless you or your decedent paid into it for the required amount of quarters.

You have to prove your age in order to collect the old age insurance that you have paid for all your working life; the standard of proof for permanent disablity is high; and you have to prove you are the surviving widow or minor child of a deceased worker who paid into the system for the required amount of quarters.

So, what alleged exploiters talking about?

[theaocp]

17. “I think this is a huge political mistake for Democrats.”

A mistake or all part of the plan? Stay frosty, Americans. Shit's gettin' real.

[rocktivity]

20. If SocSec needs money, raise its salary cap.

Obama was all for it when he was running.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[lobodons]

25. + a google

Yes yes yes yes

[jwirr]

23. Good. I have been waiting for you to tell us how the unions are taking

this. There is so much riding on this issue and we better not lose. I cannot see Obama being so dumb that he thinks he can ignore all of us. This issue is about everyone.

[jaysunb]

24. Press reports say....

:evilfrown:

[BlueCaliDem]

34. Exactly eom

[Liberalynn]

27. They shouldn't be pulling support from all Dems

just getting people to primary Obama and the Blue Dogs. Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean its impossible, it just means its waiting for someone to be the first successful person to do it.

The Union leaders should just help find Democrats who support goals on their agenda and push to get them nominated and then elected.

Just letting the PUKES walk away with everything without even attempting to fight back isn't going to make things better, only worse.

[bvar22]

29. LABOR and the Working Class is angry about a lot more than just that.

EFCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNVIQqatyU

NAFTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LtbLEKHsi0&NR=1

Cadillac Tax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wmN3wvhNM&feature=play...

http://www.labornotes.org/2010/01/anger-over-health-car...

Can't forget "The Comfortable Shoes"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o


And THEN there was the debacle in the Arkansas Primary 2010
where the White House threw the full weight of DNC and DSCC and the White House Endorsement behind virulently Anti-LABOR Anti-Healthcare Blanche Lincoln
when there was a perfectly good Pro-LABOR Pro-Healthcare popular DEMOCRAT (Lt. Gov. Bill Halter) who was polling better in the General Election.
The White House even sent The Old Dog down to Arkansas to raise funds and campaign for Lincoln.
If THAT wasn't enough,
The White House had the "audacity" to ridicule Unions for "flushing $10 Million down the toilet"
by supporting a Pro-LABOR Democrat in the Primary.

Yes,
Organized LABOR is VERY pissed at the Obama White House and Anti-LABOR/Anti-WorkingClass "Centrist" Democrats.
I am too.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone

[Jefferson23]

30. Based on the merits of Obama's proposal this is a God damn fucking bad idea.

It'll be a cold day in hell when this guy considers employing Stiglitz or anyone else even close to having his
brain power. Nah, why would he consider that?

[Vinca]

32. I don't get it. I really don't get it. Social Security is a separate entity.

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with the debt ceiling. It shouldn't be discussed, let alone be on the table.

[democracy1st]

36. Except when ur Obama,never has there been a clearer picture his actions speak volumes!

[4dsc]

37. Good. nt

[pnorman]

38. As recently pointed out on DU, it's the COSTS rather than the BENEFITS that are "on the table"!

And it's the REPTILICAN Part that should be outraged. Whenever he seems to be conciliatory to them, he either end up eating their lunch or at least making them look like irresponsible DOOFUSES.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. That is a silly talking point, they are talking about Chained CPI

and that cuts benfits. Splitting hairs and using word games from the Rove playbook will not alter the fact that the administration never said 'COSTS rather than BENEFITS' in those clear, loud terms you use so easily. You said it and that other poster keeps saying it, you should get the administration to shout it like that. Because their failure to clearly communicate is the bulk of the problem, unless they are actually selling out benefits. And they really do not say. They have not said 'no Chained CPI' and they have not said what you keep claiming they have said.
The President claims to be a huge, anti equality Christian, yet he uses language like a person with no thought about, nor training in, that faith. Hypocritical crap. There is no excuse at all for this foggy guessing game he is subjecting the elders of America to. None at all.

[pnorman]

107. Have it your way, if it makes you feel "virtuous"

Elderly (81.4) in Seattle.

[freedom fighter jh]

39. How would reducing Social Security payments reduce the national debt?

Social security is paid by a separate fund, not by the budget that is running a deficit.

That separate fund gets its money from a special tax, a regressive tax. (That is, if your income is low you pay a greater percentage of it than you do if your income is high. In the case of social security, you pay a flat percent on everything you earn up to $106 K and nothing after that.) Presumably people have accepted this regressive tax because all of it goes to that separate fund, whose payments all go to Social Security. If that last part changes, if money from the Social Security Trust Fund goes for other government purposes, then the Social Security tax is simply a regressive tax for no good reason -- just the powerful balancing the budget on the backs of the poor.

Outrageous.

[coalition_unwilling]

126. Excellent analysis. I do hope you will consider making this into

an original thread of its own. Funny how none of the players on this issue have proposed raising the cap above $106K to solve Social Security's long term financing issues.

[hay rick]

42. Rank and file.

Even if unions reluctantly endorse Obama over an even more toxic Republican rival, he's going to be a tough sell to the rank and file, who are the real source of union clout.

I expect my union to support Obama with phone banks and door-to-door canvassing. Unlike last time, I will not be participating. Nor will I vote for him in the primary. Nor...

[No Elephants]

173. Most police and firefighters have been voting Republican for years,

no matter who the leaders support.

[AllyCat]

44. Why does "Labor" only equal unions? It is not just unions that are mad...it's workers!!

[Faryn Balyncd]

46. K and R

[elleng]

47. "Apparent" is the operative word.

No evidence whatsoever.

[The Wizard]

49. If Social Security recipients

made the "campaign contributions" defense contractors made the topic of who's getting cut would be much different. Eisenhower warned us.

[No Elephants]

174. Eisenhower spent his life in the military. Then he became President and did

less than nothing about the MIC. After eight years, he "warned us" in his farewell speech. Thanks for nothing, Ike.

[No Elephants]

175. Self delete. Dupe.

[JDPriestly]

54. Good for Trumka and the other labor leaders.

We can find a good candidate to challenge Obama.

Van Jones is a possibility along with Alan Grayson, Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich and a number of others.

[INdemo]

58. And it still early enough to raise funds for a particular candidate and win

Al Gore could be a draft choice??...Howard Dean??..I like Bernie Sanders as an Independent..If Bernie Sanders would announce tomorrow he will run in 2012 this political landscape would be turned upside down and Democrats would all ............

[DesertFlower]

85. i'd vote for bernie. nt

[MissDeeds]

98. I would too!

[JDPriestly]

96. Why not Al Gore? He already won once.

That's a great idea!!!

Bernie would be the best choice because all he would have to do is be himself and everyone would hear his common sense and vote for him.

He could appeal to ordinary Tea-Baggers as well as to everyone else. Only the corporate fat cats would hate him, and his honesty and straightforwardness would very gently put them in their place.

[olegramps]

165. Trumka for President!!!!!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

56. Why is he doing this? I still don't understand. nt

[INdemo]

59. He's a Republican

[MissDeeds]

61. Yes. The writing is on the wall

Just because someone puts a "D" behind his or her name does not make them one of us. They must act and govern as a Democrat.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

113. You know, regardless of what he is or is not, he is not stupid. He knows that to win the election...

He cannot side with the Repukes against us.

[on point]

64. Paying 50 cents on the dollar of T-bills would also lower the debt. Try that first!

Social Security is a DEBT, like T-Bills, and is NOT part of the deficit. It is a trust found paid for by workers and the money is OWED to them.

Now the US government has borrowed from the trust fund, just like they borrowed money with other government debt like T-bills.

If they want to default on the SSI debt, then they should first default on the T-bill debt!

I say, just announce that we will pay only 50 cents on the dollar to the holder of T-Bills. Sorry Wall Street, oil fiefs, China, but we have to reduce the debt.

See how that flies!

[Hubert Flottz]

67. Obama wants to give away our money...

money we paid into Social Security and medicare our of our pay checks. Why wouldn't "Labor" be pissed off?

[PatrynXX]

69. Teamsters probably will be the last to fold

they can be paid off. But the above and AFL-CIO.... Obama's gonna own this error. Might as well drop the healthcare issue right now if he's gonna give up that easy. Knew he was a moderate, but I just wish I knew what Bush/Cheney has on him that he won't press war crime charges on them but someone on the right wants to impeach him for using the constitution..

[bahrbearian]

70. “I think this is a huge political mistake for Democrats,” Chuck Loveless,

It wouldn't be Obamas 1st huge political mistake.

[Hulk]

72. Quit your bitching until you know what is reality.

I listen to progressive radio and TV a lot each day...maybe too much, because I'm starting to get pissed as some of these spineless cry babies...Ed Schultz being only one of many.
President Obama has NOT sold out...yet. Maybe he will, and then we can bitch to high heaven. I'm not saying not to voice opinions and stomp feet to be heard...but this labeling him as a "sell out", etc, is absolutely republicon tactics. He has NOT sold out, and maybe he will and maybe he won't. The guy is working damn hard to get a deal made, and we need to support him, let him know our wishes, and then react.
I'm getting fed up with talking heads and posters that are so damn willing to throw this guy in the shit hole with the republicon corporatists. You have to deal in reality here..and the reality is, we have a strong movement of idiots that want to protect and benefit ONLY the wealthy in this country. Do something constructive...or don't do anything at all. Crying is a complete waste of time and makes us look as bad as fox viewers. Support and encouragement are what is needed, not this shit that I'm reading and hearing as of late.
He didn't get "single payer"...but he got something started, and considering again the republicon strength, that is a LOT. He didn't kill the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, but he did save unemployment benefits extended and other compensation. We need to get our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan.....and that I'm upset about. We could focus our attention there. But the republicons are going to help us divide and then conquer if we play into their hands. Wise up, Progressives!

[patrice]

83. Yet is the operative word there & though there ARE people who are trying to create pressure in good

faith for Labor, there very definitely are very well healed others who are trying to pull Obama's support out from under him at this significant crossroads. It would be utterly misinformed and naive to think this dynamic does not contain those factions.

[defendandprotect]

88. Obama himself picked his team ... from Koch Bros. DLC Rahm Emmanuel to Wall St...

a team comprised of those who had created the financial meltdown --

Repugs didn't make those decisions for Obama -- only Obama.

Only Obama -- and Duncan -- have attacked public education, teachers and unions --

to push Charter schools -- didn't see any Repugs pushing him to do it --

Only Obama -- not W Bush -- ended the COLA's for seniors --

If Obama doesn't know that the CPI formula is gimmicked and has been for decades,

then he shouldn't be in the Oval Office.


Patriot Act --

Tax Cuts for the Rich --

Two ten year wars bankrutping the Treasury -- and Obama INCREASES the MIC budget?



It's all over --

and actually should have been over on Day 1 if voters BS meters were raised high enough --

[defendandprotect]

87. You may have the radio on, but I don't think you're actually listening ....

Obama was in reversal from Day 1 after the election ---

Eloping into the White House with Koch Bros. DLC Rahm Emmanuel -- which I presume

we are to believe that Obama had no awareness of?

Appointing the very Wall Street and Economic team players who had created the financial coup --

or didn't you hear about that at the time?

You want reality, then face it -- *

Obama made back room deals with Big Pharma and the private H/C industry --

assuring them that there would be no "single payer" -- and no negotiation on drug prices.


Granted -- voting for the lesser evil will only move the party further to the right

and Congress further to the right -- so let's give up that idea.

We need a Plan B --


Also I'd suggest you'd rethink how it is that when the Democrats have a mandate, the presidency,

the Senate and the House ... the GOP wins! And, when the GOP has only the House, they win!

[dotymed]

73. This long National Nightmare will not end until "we the people"

stop it.

[adigal]

74. I am shocked and stunned at Obama

I never, ever thought he would agree to go after Medicare and Social Security. I am flummoxed.

[defendandprotect]

78. Obama wasn't the first -- and he won't be the last -- as long as corporations are ....

are buying our government -- pre-owning our elected officials -- and

selecting the candidates they want us to vote for --

Nor will Social Security and Medicare be the end of this --

[adigal]

102. I just didn't expect this from him

I knew Clinton was a bit of a corporate whore, but Obama?? I thought he was not bought and paid for. Sigh.

[defendandprotect]

129. It amazed me that ...

there were so many here willing to vote for Hillary despite the fact that she was

part of DLC leadership -- which was funded by the Koch Bros. and harbored within

the party for 20 years!

Obama wasn't saying what he was except to try to distance himself from DLC --

I should have known because I couldn't listen to his "eloquent" speeches --

but you really can't go anywhere alone so I voted for him --

I was also absolutely shocked on the first days when he eloped into the WH with

DLC/Rahm Emmanuel! And after the team he picked!

What could you possible trust about him after that?


I am deeply disappointed for the many DU'ers who believed in him and contributed so

much to his campaign -- truly!!

[No Elephants]

178. As far as I can tell, Obama is to the right of Bubba..

[DesertFlower]

86. so am i. nt

[defendandprotect]

76. Angered ... ??? What have they been over the decades when unions were reduced from 39% to 7%...?

And just as a question, how could this have happened over such a long period

without immense union reaction?

How were unions taken so unawares - ?

How were unions convinced to keep supporting the lesser evil -- ?

Were they only attacked from the outside -- or were they also infiltrated -- ?

Who gained when mobsters like Hoffa gained control of unions -- ?


Were union leaders simply no better informed than the American public -- ?

Did union leaders not know that the Koch Bros. had funded the DLC -- didn't they

question corporate influence over the party -- ?

Were union leaders also told that they had "no place else to go" -- ?

[Yon_Yonson]

79. So the unions won’t support a Democrat, good then support a NEOCON

So who you gonna support a Republican or I should say who your gonna call in this fricking two party system of ours? You should be getting of the fence and calling for a nation wide general strike .... SHUT EH DOWN! Hit them in their pocketbooks and make them bleed greenback. These politicians are not going to listen to us common folks about Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid they will darn well do as their corporate paymasters tell them.

[defendandprotect]

91. How about supporting Sen. Bernie Sanders for president in 2012 ...

How about Tom Hayden for VP -- we need two strong anti-war candidates!!

There are tons of democrats who aren't pre-bribed and pre-owned by the corporations

who can run on the Dem ticket --

[julian09]

94. Berni or whoever

will have to deal with corporate congress of both stripes.

[defendandprotect]

119. There are tons of dems outside of the party who have not been pre-bribed and

who are not pre-owned by corporations --

Everyone of them could run on a Dem Party ticket --

[The Big Vetolski]

97. Sanders is a member of the Democratic Socialist Party. Would he

change his party affiliation in order to primary Obama? I don't know, man. He's old and looks tired. And I feel pretty damned old and tired myself! Don't get me wrong. I would gladly vote for him if he did. I would LOVE to vote for a proud standard-bearer of the Democratic Party in the traditions of FDR, Harry Truman, and LBJ(domestic policy only, mind) in which I truly believe.

[Yon_Yonson]

103. Democratic Socialist Party Credo ~ sounds like the way it should be

Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

[defendandprotect]

120. Actually, you can't have a democracy without economic democracy -- and capitalism ain't it -- !!

:)

[defendandprotect]

121. Sanders caucuses with the Dem Party -- he's a better dem than most of them ... !!

Also there are tons of democrats outside the party who could run on the ticket --

Wasn't Reagan "old" -- and senile?

W Bush was rather young and energized -- to do evil -- !!

But nothing is going to happen unless we begin to make it happen --

[Yon_Yonson]

105. Venting my frustrations

I am just venting my frustrations with the ongoing three ring circus of amerikan politics. I realize that not all politicians are ‘on the take’ and this time around I will most likely do a write in unless the Democrats come up with a strong candidate.

[Bluebear]

140. "SHUT EH DOWN!"

:silly:

[deacon]

80. It's not good to be a media toy. Have to see how it turns out first. It's good the uniona fired a

warning shot though.

[Jakes Progress]

89. That will get a chuckle at the WH meetings.

Labor is angry. Tee Hee.

Why would they care? Ignore them. Say some nice words about good shoes and strikes. Count on them to fall in line again. Votes in the pocket.

[Faygo Kid]

99. +1

[NorthCarolina]

93. Glad to hear this news. n/t

[backtomn]

100. I think that we should relax......

...it hasn't happen yet. We need to keep the pressure on, so it doesn't happen. Just say "no".

[defendandprotect]

123. Unfortunately ...

it's quite obvious from Obama's record that only corporations have leverage

over him -- and Repugs!!

[Citizen Worker]

101. So, Labor is angry, so what? The white house will simply respond the same as most democrats have

been for years: where else are you going to go? Until we remove this arrogant response by building an alternative political party nothing is going to change.

[harun]

108. Someone needs to remind Obama there are people in Washington besides the GOP.

[WillyT]

110. K & R !!!

:kick:

[Lasher]

111. I was angered when he set up his Cat Food Commission

After that, this comes as no real surprise.

[muntrv]

114. I'm angry too.

[ksecus]

116. Obama is an idiot

I think he wants to be a one termer.

[defendandprotect]

125. Obama isn't dumb . . . Certainly he knows the New Deal from the Raw Deal ...

and he's knowingly chosen what side he's on --

From Day 1 --

[neoralme]

138. Yes. Have known that since his first six months in office. He will

be remembered in infamy. Never ever have I been tricked like that.

[earcandle]

117. We are being scammed by this whole Debt Ceiling conversation because Amendment 14 doesn't allow it.

This is an unconstitutional conversation.  We should always be
able to pay our debts.  We have to raise revenue to cover our
costs. PERIOD.

How to do that?  Remove tax cuts, remove tax loopholes, and
reinstate corporate tax rates to apply to all corporations. 
They do just fine without our government supporting them to do
business.   And besides they do not invest, as we can see. 

So cut this conversation already. This is shameful for our
leaders to scam us like this, just cause our children have
been uneducated doesn't mean they should rely on leaders who
lie.  

[totodeinhere]

124. Whether or not it is unconstitutional is not for you or me to decide but

for the courts to decide and so far they have not weighed in on it. And with five conservatives on the Supreme Court is hard to predict how they might rule.

[earcandle]

139. If it is already in the constitution, why do we need the courts to weigh in?

[totodeinhere]

181. You can say that it's already in the Constitution, but what you or I say is irrelevant.

It is for the courts to decide if it is "in the Constitution" or not. Some my read the Constitution much differently than you do.

[No Elephants]

179. The SCOTUS weighed in on the issue in 1935.

Moreover, if Chuck Grassley is any indication, the Republicans are now getting that their position is unconstitutional. However, President Obama took the Constitutional issue off the table. while leaving cuts to OASDI and Medicare squarely on the table. Only God knows why he did (but I have a guess).

[totodeinhere]

180. He said he took the constitutional issue off the table for the same reason I gave,

because he wanted to leave it to the courts, and I will take his word for it.

My nightmare is that the Democrats will try to cite the 14th Amendment and then at the last minute Scalia or another of the regressives on the court will block it and suddenly we are faced with a default and all of it's terrible consequences. All it takes is one justice to put a stay on any use of the 14th Amendment pending a full revue by the courts which could take months or even years.

This is very frustrating to me. Under no circumstances do I want to see Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid cut. If Obama signs off on that it would be game ender for me. But there might be enough extremists in the GOP caucus in the House to refuse to go along with any type of tax increase, closing loopholes, and or revenue enhancements. So where does that leave us? What if the Republicans are crazy enough not to blink? We could be looking at a catastrophe.

[defendandprotect]

127. True -- no conversation re DEBT when Bush started two wars, cut taxes for rich ....

and used the Social Security Surplus -- $250 BILLION a year, maybe more? --

as a slush fund -- !!



And ... eh, Obama didn't happen to notice what extending those tax cuts -- $120 BILLION --

would do to the debt?

hmmm.....

[woo me with science]

122. Kicked and strongly recommended. nt

[unkachuck]

128. K&R....n/t

[amborin]

135. K&R

[No Elephants]

144. Disabled, elderly, widowers, widows and orphans also pissed. Film at 11.

People need to stop saying only retirees or elderly. This affects a lot of other people.

And, once again, it's not Social Security. It's Old Age, Disability and Survivors Insurance. And Old Age, Disability and Survivors Insurance is, well, insurance, not an "entitlement."

And OASDI has a surplus. Blaming or penalizing those who paid into the system because their government robbed the fund is, at best, dishonest.

People need to stop pretending about a lot of things relating to OASDI.

[Javaman]

154. got a call from the Obama campaign this past weekend looking for a donation...

I stated, simply, "I'm waiting to see if President Obama touches either SS or Medicare. If he does, you can kiss any donation or my support, goodbye".

The poor caller stated, "I've been hearing this all day".

I think Obama's "trial balloon", turned into lead.

pretty dumb move if you ask me.

[Shining Jack]

169. "I've been hearing this all day".

Yup,it won't be pretty.

[Harmony Blue]

183. It will be like this for a long time

Maybe the Administration will re-evaluate their approach?

[RedCloud]

163. What other Obamanation can you expect from a mere moderate?

[myrna minx]

164. If the President doesn't care about the elderly, disabled and teachers, why

would he care about unions? He's busy courting the hedge fund manager vote.

[Shining Jack]

168. I have only contempt for that guy. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

171. And not just labor

What the hell is he thinking?

I always KNEW there was something "off" about him. That's why I never campaigned or gave any money for his campaign, even though I voted for him.

[truedelphi]

185. Every nation that has allowed the Milton Friedman

"Free Market 'capitalism' " to be put in place has ended up with a military-junta-styled fascism.


If you wanna know what I mean, the film "The Shock Doctrine" details it nicely.

Today we are groped and prodded, ridiculed and zapped with microwaves for the simple act of boarding a plane.

Tomorrow and the next day (figuratively speaking) it will be worse.

Should labor decide to rebel, they will possibly be disappeared.

Obama is not what anyone twenty years ago would consider a Democrat. And his followers are, on the higher levels, henchmen willing to destroy everyone but the Upper Elite.