Belief in WMD and Iraqi Links to Al Qaeda Remain Virtually Unchanged

[Robbien]

<snip>

These are the results of a nationwide Harris Poll of 979 adults surveyed by telephone by Harris Interactive® between April 8 and 15, 2004.

-- A 51% to 38% majority continues to believe that "Iraq actually had
weapons of mass destruction," virtually unchanged since February.

-- A 49% to 36% plurality of all adults continues to believe that "clear
evidence that Iraq was supporting Al Qaeda has been found." These
numbers have scarcely changed since June 2003.

-- A 51% to 43% plurality continues to believe that "intelligence given
before the war to President Bush by the CIA and others about Iraqi's
weapons of mass destruction" was "completely" or "somewhat" accurate.
In February a 50% to 45% plurality believed this.

-- While a 43% plurality believes that the "U.S. government deliberately
exaggerated the reports of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to
increase support for war," a 50% plurality (also virtually unchanged
over the last eight months) continues to believe that the government
"tried to present the information accurately."

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040421/nyw132_1.html

[jackstraw45]

1. Where's a bucket?

I need to vomit.

[central scrutinizer]

2. thank you, liberal media

for slanting every story against the maladministration. <sarcasm off>

[tom_paine]

3. The Pravda-infested Imperial Subjects of Amerika may not deserve

the freedom handed down to us.

As a result, they will get what they deserve, however many of us who DON'T deserve Tyranny will also get it.

This must not happen! NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER STOP SPEAKING OUT AND DONING EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO GET KERRY ELECTED (which is Step #1 without which nothing else can happen).

[gottaB]

4. oi

oi oi oi

[jackstraw45]

5. George Bush: HERO OF THE STUPID

What a country of idiots. Seriously. At this point, I don't care HOW busy your life is, 51% of those polled should not be believing that the Iraq intelligence was accurate. Or 49% linking pre-war Iraq with Al Qaeda.

:puke:

[CompassionateLiberal]

6. Amazing?!

This is the scariest news I've heard all week.

[cspiguy]

12. not as scary as being an iraqi scientist who knows about WMD

-- I think we can all agree that it would be suicide for such an individual to report anything to U.S. intelligence with the Mukhabaraat, Fedayeen, and the new guys (Mahdi's) still operating freely in the country. He had WMD. Noone disagrees with that. The question is did he destroy them. There is no evidence of that. Whatsoever. The UN inspectors would have eventually gotten to the bottom of it but it seems that either Saddam was lying big time in a bluff that caused him his a$$ or had WMD and was successful in hiding them in a country that the U.S. will never be able to properly search or with neighbors where we have even less ability.

[Minstrel Boy]

18. I guess you didn't know. The Mukhabarat

is working for the US now.

From an old AFP story:

"Theyve started recruiting ex-Mukhabarat," said Ali Abdul Amir, spokesman for the Iraqi National Accord, a group with longstanding ties to the US defence establishment that counts Iraq's new interim interior minister Nuri Badran among its members.

"The coalition has been recruiting them. Iraqi parties have also been helping recruit," said Abdul Amir.

"Many of them are ex-intelligence officers who went into exile, but others are being tapped from the old regime, as long as it is clear they did not commit abuses against the Iraqi people."

In particular, the coalition has been signing up Mukhabarat who spied on Syria and Iran under Saddam, as it seeks to stem an influx of foreign militants it believes are making common cause with old regime loyalists to plot the spate of car bombings that have rocked Iraq in recent weeks, said Abdul Amir.
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/040903saddamagents.html

And as I recall, fear of reprisals didn't keep a tipster from ratting out Saddam's sons for a few million $ US. Yet a year later, while in protective custody and God knows what incentives, Iraqi scientists still haven't spilled the "truth" about WMD.

Just amazing. What some people believe, I mean.

[thebigidea]

21. thanks for the laugh, that post was hysterical

the question is, how can we link this to Syria?

TO WAR!

[Minstrel Boy]

28. "Freedonia's going to war!"

[jayfish]

23. Total BS!

"-- I think we can all agree that it would be suicide for such an individual to report anything to U.S. intelligence with the Mukhabaraat, Fedayeen, and the new guys (Mahdi's) still operating freely in the country."

One of the US's conditions for not invading Iraq was for Saddam to allow scientists to be taken out of Iraq for interviews. Saddam declined. Saddam is gone now so why haven't we set up all of those Iraqi scientists here in the US with new digs and a new way of life? We have almost all of Iraqis top officials in custody and not one of them has given up the ghost on WMD's. As a matter of fact they are all saying they had been destroyed well before the invasion

"He had WMD. Noone disagrees with that. The question is did he destroy them. There is no evidence of that. Whatsoever. The UN inspectors would have eventually gotten to the bottom of it but it seems that either Saddam was lying big time in a bluff that caused him his a$$ or had WMD and was successful in hiding them in a country that the U.S. will never be able to properly search or with neighbors where we have even less ability."

Yes he had chem. and bio. weapons but when? Several UN inspectors said that most of Iraq's CBW were destroyed, under their supervision immediately following the first Gulf War. The rest were probably destroyed by Clinton in the now infamous "Wag The Dog" strikes (see Op. Desert Fox), rendered inert due to the passage of time or destroyed by Saddam himself. Saddam was lying... bluffing? He produced a 15,000 page accounting of his WMD activity's that was heavily redacted by the US before it was even given to the UN. HE SAID HE DID NOT HAVE ANY WMD. The article in the thread is about people like you. The facts be damned you will believe what you wish.

PS...

I will not provide cites or any research for you. You wouldn't read them anyway. it's a shame that Americans cannot even remember recent history.

Jay

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zero Gravitas]

27. Thats crap

If this mythical scientist came forward, its not like he'd have to go home at night with a big sign around his neck saying "I told the US where the WMDs are" They could spirit him & his family out of the country nad keep him safe elesewhere. No the explanation is that the WMDs were destroyed after the Gulf War & your court-appointed, part-time "War President" knows this.

[ThatPoetGuy]

35. "He had WMD. No one disagrees with that."

Hello cspiguy! Do I detect a member of the Flat Earth Society?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

41. What an idiotic statement!

it seems that either Saddam was lying big time in a bluff that caused him his a$$ or had WMD and was successful in hiding them

This is truly idiotic. How many times did Iraq say they had NO WMD? When the US (via the UN) demanded a report of what had happened to them, Iraq provided a 12,000 page document, which the US CENSORED before the rest of the UNSC was allowed to see it!

Iraq claimed that ALL its weapons had been destroyed after the '91 war. The US refused to believe it. They kept saying it for over a DECADE. The US refused to believe it. The US finally invaded, and found NO WMD, and now you are trying to say Hussein was bluffing???

BULLSHIT!

[denverbill]

43. I think all of us can agree that that's just stupid.

Why the hell would anyone give a damn if a scientist talked now? Saddam's in jail, his boys are dead, and 90% of his top advisors are dead or in jail. Almost nobody in Iraq wants Saddam back. We've offered asylum to anyone and their family if they want to talk.

Face facts. The weapons don't exist. Saddam was actually telling the truth. They were all destroyed after the Gulf War. The entire justification for invading Iraq was based on a falsehood and no amount of excuse-making can fix that.

[cspiguy]

49. Saddam was actually telling the truth

If you believe that, you have serious reality problems, my friend. The only thing anyone could ever trust Saddam to do was lie.

[denverbill]

51. Frankly, I think you're the one with the serious reality problem.

Saddam said he had no WMD.
The UN weapons inspectors never found any WMD.
Scott Ritter claimed the WMD had been destroyed.
US forces have searched for a year and have not found any WMD.

But you still insist that Saddam had WMD.

Based on WHAT evidence, pray-tell? Do you have ANY evidence, or is your only proof your blind faith in Bush?

The pre-war intelligence provided by the convicted bank swindler Chalabi, who the US now admits was providing totally fabricated evidence?

The only idiots still claiming he had WMD are the nutjob right-wingers who still think we found mobile biological weapons labs and that Iraqis were flying the planes on 9-11.

[Ripley]

62. Actually the thing everyone is missing...

Not all the weapons were "destroyed." Scott Ritter and other inspectors said they just "went bad." Those chems have a short shelf life and especially if they are in ancient, rusty containers leaking into the sand.

Why, oh why can't the media attempt to set the record straight?

Nevermind.

[Dhalgren]

52. What crap!

Man, did you take a wrong turn at Dogpatch. "Ooooooo.Saddam!!! Oooooo, the boogey man will get you!" All you have to say is "Saddam - bad man" and we're supposed to shed brain cells like a bunch of George suckin' freepers? You gotta be kiding! Don't come in here with all this tired old shit about the "boogey man, Saddam" - it won't wash. Saddam is not the problem, he wasn't a year ago and he isn't now. George "Numbnuts" Bush is the problem, along with any dim-witted shitheads who still support him. I think that this is a very clear statement.

[ThatPoetGuy]

61. Fool.

Saddam said he had no WMDs, Saddam is a bad man, bad men tell lies, he must have been lying, therefore he had WMDs. Uhhh, some pretty compelling logic, cspiguy.

/sarcasm off.

Despite the utter conviction of all the WMD-hunters and experts -- people like Valerie Plame and David Kay (a right-wing Republican) -- that there were no WMDs.

If Saddam were to tell you he only has one head, you'd have to conclude that he has two.

There is no one -- NO ONE -- who has looked into this issue and believed there was even ambiguity to it; IRAQ HAD NO WMDs.

[NJCher]

7. and people wonder why bush got a jump in the polls

Ignorance. Plain and simple.

When this nation takes its final dive, it will deserve it.

I wish "the rapture" would just wipe out the idiots.


Cher

[mhr]

8. Hear, Hear - A Devil's Rapture For All The Misguided Fundies

terrible news

[kskiska]

33. I can't wait till they're gone

and WE'RE all "left behind."

[reprobate]

47. Cher, I think you're wrong about the "final dive".

We are now engaged in the terminal velocity dive that you refer to. I'm afraid I see no way out of it at this point in time.

We are now the world's biggest debtor nation, both in financial debt owed to foreigners, and in balance of trade.

This country is hemoraging good paying jobs to foreign countries with the encouragement of the government.

The only jobs being created are "McJobs".

We have a populace that is kept fat, dumb, and happy by a media which itself is a wholy owned subsidiary of the republican party. What's worse, the people just don't care that they are being led by the nose.

Financially, I have severe doubts that the country will ever recover from the position we have been put in.

No, dear Cher, the final dive is not in the future. We saw the beginning of the dive in November and December, 2000, when the constitution was destroyed by the very court that is charged with defending it.

And the real hell of it was that the people just sat around on their asses and accepted this travesty.

Of course there is a bright side to all this. It's not often that we can be witness to the destruction of an empire. We should take notes cause our grandkids will want to know the truth.

And there is the chance to expand our knowledge by seeing other cultures. If * gets four more, we are leaving. I tend to Canada, but my spouce cant stand the cold, so it may be Costa Rica.

[shrike]

54. Frank Zappa had a good take on "The Rapture"

I read an interview where he said he'd grown up in the Bible Belt, and had heard about the Rapture all his life. "Bring it on," he said (or words to that effect), "There'll be more cool stuff and houses around for the rest of us when all those other assholes are gone."

[Jacobin]

9. This is intentional ignorance, imho

The same fuckers who rah rah rahed the bombing and invasion on a pretext are too fucking cowardly to admit they were stupid warmongering cretinous scumbuckets, and so they pretend to retain their "justifications".

I REFUSE to believe they actually believe this shit in a conscious way.

[skypilot]

11. I agree with you.

Quite a few months ago I posted a thread about how people these days would rather cut out their own tongues than utter the words "I was wrong". I think some of the same people would rather cut off their heads than even THINK "I was wrong".

[Thor_MN]

60. Ever wonder if these idiots define themselves as being faithful

and when the evidence points out that they have their head up their ass, they have to ignore it as their entire existence is defined on being a faithful person.

[maggrwaggr]

10. Media, your grade is "F"

Propaganda ministers, you get an "A"

Kind of explains everything, don't it?

Disgusting.

Notice how EVERYBODY in the media refers to the war in Iraq as part of the "president's war on terror".

FUCK ALL THESE ASSHOLES

[AndyP]

13. Hey April fools was a few weeks ago

You've got to be kidding me. The only way for a democracy to work sucessfully is to have an educated voting population- I hope these idiots don't even bother. This is what the right wing is counting on-people who don't know anything, and don't really care.

[gauguin57]

14. help!

May God have mercy on us. Unbelievable.

How, how, HOW can people still believe this? HOW?

[bif]

15. Dumb-fuck Americans

God we are pathetic. I fear the November elections.

[NJmaverick]

16. Fox news must be proud

They have done their job well of keeping Americans misinformed. The question is how do we educate the public?

[Just Me]

17. Denial? Pride? Arrogance?

Ignorance? Brainwashed? Propagandosis?

:shrug:

[stellanoir]

24. don't mean to be "pollyanna-esc"

but last September, wasn't over 70% of the population convinced that there was Iraq and al quaeda had a pre-war-9/11 connection. . ?

If 20% can become more aware of the truth in 6 & 1/2 months, then that's also much time we've got until November 2nd. Keep spreading the truth and maybe another 20% can see the light by then.

[Just Me]

29. Yes,...you are right,...this is more like a glass half-full,...

,...which was 3/4 empty not so long ago.

We must keep our eyes towards the light, eh?

:bounce:

[makhno]

19. I wonder

if this country doesn't need a nice, hard period of single party fascist rule for people to finally become a little bit more cynical about their leaders' intentions. You can see this very American belief in politicians' inherent morality even here on DU, whenever a discussion of who voted for the war, why and how comes up. "Misled" rather than "consciously supportive of a known lie for base political reasons" comes up with alarming regularity.

It doesn't matter what people hear on the news as long as they refuse to believe the degree to which our government has become corrupt, regardless of party affiliation.

[sniffa]

20. retards

and shame on us aLL for not knocking down enough doors with common sense and truth in tow. peopLe are such idiots.

[Mari333]

22. www.bushdraft.com

only way they will wake up.
www.bushdraft.com
otherwise, they seem to prefer fascism.

[Zero Gravitas]

26. I know some of these people

they don't watch the news, they don't read a newspaper (other than the sports section and the comics) they know very little about the world outside the USA. They are easily fooled and apparently continue to be fooled.

[SeekerofTruth]

30. Why are people considered stupid for believing Iraq had WMDs?

For over 12 years the rest of the world believed that Iraq had WMDs. In 1998, our Democratic leaders were insisting they had WMDs. Do you believe that the intelligence agency's of all these countries were wrong?

Going to war over the WMDs is different than believing Iraq had WMDs.

[gottaB]

31. That's one reading of the intelligence

There were caveats.

Smarter Dem leaders realized that "Iraq possesses WMDs" was just one interepretation and not known for a fact.

Since the inspections led by Blix, and the ones led by Kay, now we know that in all probability Iraq did not possess WMDs prior to the invasion of 2003.

So why do so many people continue to believe that they did?

[Zero Gravitas]

32. People are stupid

for believing that there was an al Qaeda link. I wasn't sure whether or not Iraq had WMDs when Bush started talking about WMDs, but I did not support the war because I did not believe in the link with al Qaeda. If there was such a link I'm sure someone would have mentioned it, but the first anyone ever heard of it was from the Bush Regime, not exactly the most reliable sources.

I had heard of Kamel Hussien's claims (the WMDs were destroyed after the Gulf War) and when they started repeating his claims as to how large the stock piles were, but not mentioning that he also claimed they had been destroyed I began to suspect that they were (gasp!) lying about that too. The yellow cake and aluminum tube stories just underlined how little evidence they had.

Were the intelligence services wrong? I doubt the intelligence services claimed with absolute certainty that there weer WMDs it was Bush who claimed with certainty they existed. He either ignored or did not understand the caveats that came with the intelligence.

Why would they repeat Kamel Hussein's claims of the size of the stockpiles as if that was hard evidence and then ignore his claims that they were destroyed? The answer, I think, is that the invasion was never about WMDs, it was just used as an excuse that dove-tailed nicely with their fear-mongering and manipulation of the ignorant. The real reason was that they had manipulated the intellectually weak Bush into believing the PNAC fantasy of re-making the Middle East by invading and occupying Iraq.

[drfemoe]

42. I believed

Scott Ritter, Kamel, Hans Blix (and inspectors). I have NEVER believed one word out of gwb's lying mouth.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,351165,00.html
<snip>
Saturday, Sep. 14, 2002
Scott Ritter was the UN's top weapons inspector in Iraq until 1998, when he resigned claiming President Clinton was too easy on Saddam. Now he says the dictator doesn't seem to have weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and that trying to oust Saddam is "extremely dangerous." TIME's Massimo Calabresi asked the voluble former marine about his recent private trip to Baghdad, Jane Fonda, and accusations he's a spy for Israel, Iraq or Russia.
...
Some on the right call you the new Jane Fonda, and joke about what you'll call your exercise video.

(Long pause?) Those on the right who say that disgrace the 12 years of service I gave to my country as a Marine. I love my country. I'll put my record of service up against anyone, bar none. If they want to have an exercise video then why don't they come here and say it to my face and I'll give'm an exercise video, which will be called, "Scott Ritter Kicking Their Ass."
...
You told the Iraqi parliament that Saddam had legitimate complaints about the prior inspection regime. What did you mean?

The U.S. had a track record of putting pressure on the weapons inspectors program during my entire seven years there. It's ironic that everyone has focused on the struggle of the inspectors vs. Iraq. Not too many people speak of the struggle between the weapons inspectors and the U.S. to beat back the forces of U.S. intelligence which were seeking to infiltrate the weapons inspectors program and use the unique access the inspectors enjoyed in Iraq for purposes other than disarmament. Iraq has a clear case that under this past inspection regime unfortunately it was misused for purposes other than set out by the Security Council resolution.
...

[Robbien]

34. Before you drop bombs, you had better have definite proof

Not fuzzy pictures from five or ten years ago, but eyeball witness proof dated today.

Bush had an itch, so he dropped bombs on families living in Baghdad. That is a criminal act.

[jayfish]

39. Here We Go Again.

Where did the rest of the worlds intelligence agencies get their data on Iraq's MD capability? Before you scream about MI-5 Mussad... do they have any satellites over Iraq? I'll tell you who did have them... Russia. Why did they want inspections to continue? 1998? That was 5 years ago. I'm not even sure that the shelf life of CB weapons is that long let alone 13 years. In 1998 WJ Clinton launched a series of air-strikes which are believed to have destroyed most if not all of Iraq's CBW capability. Here is a more important question for you to ask. Why did I, and a plurality of the good folks here at DU, know that they did not have WMD and all of these great intelligence apparatuses fail?


Jay

[democracy eh]

36. blaaaaaaaah!!

[gasperc]

37. IRAQ: the leader was toppled, the government surrendered or fled

why the fuck are we still at war? At least in the vietnam conflict we were fighting the north vietnamese ARMY with a leader and government that we could NOT topple.

[Vladimir]

38. According to the same poll

though, 51% want 'most' troops back within the next year. So even if they believe the premises on which the US went to war, it seems they aren't happy with the proceedings...

[Dead_Parrot]

40. I can only conclude...

...50.5% of Americans are still dumb...

Sorry guys...

[One_Life_To_Give]

44. Lead a horse to water...

But you can't make it read!

[jayfish]

46. Welcome To DU WLtG

:hi:

Jay

[govegan]

45. Rocks are smart

and the dust of the universe is very, very old.

humans, on the other hand.......

led by one dumber than the dust

[The Stranger]

48. STATE OF DENIAL

is easier to accept now that so many have died and will continue to die.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

66. That's absolutely it. There is no other reason.

How can anyone admit the whole thing is a mistake? The answer is they can't- so they rationalize a justification. A very false one.

[Claire Beth]

50. Proves how stupid some people are! n/t

[dawg]

53. What was that Adlai Stevenson quote?

Someone told him that every thinking man and woman in America would vote for him and he replied, "That's not enough, I need a majority."

[sadiesworld]

55. "a 50% plurality... continues to believe that the government tried

to present the information accurately".

We are SO fucked.

[dawg]

56. Yes ...

and they are too!

[Mountainman]

57. 50% of us are dumber than a bag of hammers. 50% of us back Bush

.'. The 50% that back Bush are dumber than a bag of hammers.

People support Bush for a number of reasons. One letter to the editor writer in our paper said that he doesn't care if there were no WMDs because Bush is a man of God and that Bush gets down on his knees every night to ask for God's guidance.

This guy probably will tell a poll taker that he believes Iraq had WMDs because that is the answer that supports Bush. He may not believe in WMDs but he has to support Bush because of the religious aspect.

[Betty]

58. if Americans are really this gullible

then the USA collectively deserves all the shit that will inevitably descend upon it for years to come. Of course, that's not fair to the millions who see this asshole administration for what it is, but we will all bear the cost of living in a country which is populated by so many intellectually lazy, incurious, unquestioning morons.

[keep_left]

59. That's exactly what Scott Ritter said recently...

He was giving a talk about the bogus WMD allegations and the buildup to the Iraq invasion, and commented that if we don't put the Bush administration out of a job in November, "we don't deserve to call ourselves Americans".

[leftofthedial]

63. America does not deserve to survive

I'm out of here.

[The_Casual_Observer]

64. This is the 50% that makes up the basement dwellers

in this society. To whom ignorance is bliss. There is nothing that can be done about this bilge.

[DemosthenesOfTheWest]

65. This is why Bush is in trouble!

The truth is on our side. Right wing talk shows and punditry have obfuscated this but it will eventually sink in. Every day a few more people realize that the weapons are there, weren't there and that Bush never believed they were there.