Kerry Purple Heart Doc Speaks Out

[okieinpain]

http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200405041626.asp

don't hate, I'm just posting stuff that's out there for all to see. my main thought on this little piece of info, is I can remember others on du who swore up and down that kerry was un-approachable on the war front.

well it doesn't seem to matter to repugs what his service to the country was. all that matters to them is kerry is in the way. hell they would turn on jesus if he said something bad about bush.


edited, forgot to spell check, laughing to hard

[boogerbrain]

1. That's hilarious

I seriously doubt it is true, but that makes Kerry look like a sissy, so expect to see it all over the news.

[bobbieinok]

2. note source National Review

[SharonAnn]

52. Since when does a doctor write up something like this?

That's bizarre. I've worked with lots of MDs about this guy's age and cannot imagine one doing this. And if one did, he's be ostracized by the other doctors.

Speculation and hearsay like this, it simply "Isn't done".

[Skittles]

58. yup

I smell a Rove tactic.

[bmbmd]

61. Sounds like a Hippa violation to me-

never discuss someone's records in public without their permission.

[Dr Fate]

3. When Does Bush's Purple Heart Doctor Speak out?

Oh, thats right, Bush never took his physical exams, which happened to include drug testing. Oh well.

[daleo]

13. I believe there was a mention of hemorrhoids

In the military records that they released. The report said they were fairly superficial though.

Note - saw this on the Daily Show.

On edit - I mean the Bush records of course.

[SnohoDem]

19. His dentist spoke out:

"Junior was a very good boy during his exam and didn't cry at all. He got a 'Good Little Pilot' medal and an all day sucker."

[TexasProgresive]

35. Maybe he got a purple heart for

having a root canal done by an air guard dentist!

[Wind Dancer]

4. Don't believe it!!

Great memory this doc has, more spin from the "WH gone MAD"!

[bahrbearian]

25. Ya in Nam he probably treated Dozens of soldiers every day.

yet he remember this one, 30 years later.

[Gin]

5. some truth in the story...He is the next JFK...(his initials)

gin

[alcuno]

6. This IS funny! A doctor in Vietnam remembers the doings of

J.K. Sure.

[LVT]

7. LOL

He remembers the exact date and the condition of the boat. Bwahhahahahahah.....

Good memory doc!

[WLKjr]

12. sounds like some propaganda by bushco

the story is too generic

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. hmmm funny

as a medic I can tell you I treated thousands of patients

Minor injuries like Lt (jg) Kerry are soon forgotten. Most folks only remember those that are impressive or otherwise made an
impression... and this is not an impresionable injury, one bit.

I suspect they dug out this and this smells like a Karl Rove Story

And after what they did to McCain and Cleeland, this is the begining

[ijk]

16. purple heart?

As I understand it, it's the medic who treats the wound who puts you up for a purple heart. I'd be rather curious what this guy has to say about that.

But regardless, folks, don't bite. There's no more than a totally trivial dispute over the magnitude or circumstances of this wound. Kerry didn't ask for a purple heart for it; you can't. The army, in its wisdom, chose to give him one. So? We have no need whatsoever to get sucked into whether the wound was half an inch deep or an inch, or whether it was enemy fire or not (a question frequently in never-resolved dispute in vietnam.) Doesn't matter in the least.

[TahitiNut]

62. If I recall, the Purple Heart is initiated on the basis ...

... of the morning report, which indicates a duty status of "wounded in action." The unit commander receives this morning report and verifies the medical record. He then turns back to the company clerk and tells him to start the paperwork. It's pretty cut and dried.

When I was in 'Nam I got a very minor injury during a rocket attack. I demanded (like lots of other guys) that the people in the infirmary and the company clerk report me "fit for duty" and I showed up for duty. If they wouldn't have gone along with me, I'd have been awarded the PH. Since I didn't miss any time, they went along. If I hadn't showed up and reported to the duty officer, I'd have needed an excuse. It's pretty clearcut - if you con't report for duty and the reason is treatment for a wound or injury while under fire, it's almost an automatic PH.

[Old and In the Way]

9. People are missing the real point about these wounds.

Kerry was lucky that the wounds were not life-threatening. There is a lot of serendipity in combat. If he had been standing 6" this way or that, he may have had his named carved in the bloody wall.

It's the combat, stupid (not you okieinpain)

[okieinpain]

17. I hear you. it's amazing that bush is the great one for getting into

the national guard and half ass doing that. but kerry is such a lousy person for talking about his life experience. I would love to ask one of these freepers, that if kerry is not fit to be cic, then what does that say about bush.

[TexasProgresive]

36. My Grandpa took 3 German bullets in WWI

two in the chest - one 3 inches and another 1 inch from his heart. The other slug went through his ankle - shattering it. The 2 nearly deadly wounds cause him no lasting trouble but the ankle caused him pain throughout his life.

[Zolok]

57. Not that it matters but...

does anyone else think this fixation by the Bush campaign on JK's many medals is a kind of displaced penis envy?
:)

Hey apropos of nothing, dear olde dad got a purple heart in world war two (three in fact) the first one was for what he described as a "slight" hand injury incurred during the Battle of the Bulge.
"Schrapnel" the olde boy said...
A few years ago I idly asked which hand was wounded and dad replied:
"I forget".
The other wounds were wa-ay more serious requiring years of plastic surgery to efface.

That is why the current controversy makes me laugh...but no doubt it'll be spung into SERIOUS TROUBLING ALLEGATIONS ABOUT JOHN KERRY before long.

www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[buycitgo]

78. dig it, man. I'm wearing one of my dad's dog tags

he had half his ass blown off.....literally

hit by a hand grenade on a bridge near Bastogne; just before the Bulge

this was after he got big chunk of an 88 shell in his knee two weeks earlier.

he spent a year in hospital from the latter......had almost a hundred pieces of shrapnel in his back for the rest of his life

can't TELL you how outraged I am over this story

combat, indeed

btw, I started wearing his tag last March 20, when I realized, finally, that we LOST WWII to the BFEE.

the FASCISTS won, and we're still fighting that war.....the Fourth Reich is in power, and will be til the Bush scourge ends

[Cocoa]

10. there's a special place in Hell

reserved for people like Byron York.

[Jim Sagle]

11. Looks like a brave combat soldier, doesn't he?

[WLKjr]

14. nahh

Looks like he just crapped his pants.

[lumpy]

65. York looks like a real Wussy

with a silly Brad Pitt hairdo and a silicon lip.

[nosmokes]

15. note that this guy

says there is a disparity in the story between kerry and the boat crew as to what happened. i'd like to see that backed up some place. i know the PH was issued to a lot of GI's in 'nam, but they weren't passed out like candy, they were still investigated. somebody had to confirm the official version of what happened. you didn't just walk up and say i was wounded and get a medal, ffs.

[VolcanoJen]

18. Kerry promised us he wouldn't allow himself to be smeared like Cleland...

... and McCain.

It's past time for him to make good on that promise. I know this is a relatively small story, but it'll get out there, it will be morphed, it will be believed by those willing to believe this kind of garbage.

FIGHT BACK, JOHN. Please?

[serryjw]

31. On Hugh Hewitt Show

thats all they were discussing for 15 minutes while I was in someone office today and the radio was on.

[DemMother]

46. He has been.

[Sir Craig]

20. You can see the RNC smear machine working in this article

It begins with this sentence:

"Whatever the case, Kerry was awarded the Purple Heart, and, along with two others he won later, it allowed him to request to leave Vietnam before his tour of duty was finished."

Byron York makes it sound like Kerry was making plans for getting out of Vietnam early by earning Purple Hearts. Funny, but I cannot see anyone with half an ounce of sense trying something that retarded.

But then again, we are talking about political hacks whose only combat experience came from viewing The Green Berets on DVD, pausing the movie when it became too scary.

As for this doctor's recollection about Kerry making the statement that he was going to be "the next JFK from Massachusetts" keying him into making notes about Kerry sounds even more far-fetched.

I'm smelling a Rovian-sized rat here, with a sprinkling of Gillespie.

[Lavalamp]

21. Kerry HAD to have authorized this

If not, this doc just broke doctor/patient confidentiality - opening himself up to a MAJOR law suit.

[Bandit]

23. There is no such thing in the military

This medical person pulled a piece of shrapnel out of Kerry's arm and decided he deserved to be put in for a purple heart because of it. Granted it was a small piece of shrapnel but tetanus and lockjaw were common over there because of the filth. Kerry did what he was told. He was told to seek medical attention and he did. He didn't request a purple heart. That is solely the realm of the attending physician and the Commanding Officer.

[Lavalamp]

24. Are you serious?

So after a person leaves the military (and is a civilian) a doctor who treated them has no privacy limits?

[Just Me]

26. Are you, like, spinning?

How can a doctor who recommends a metal turn around and say, thirty years later "Oh, I take it back?" Where is the personal responsibility in that?

And, WTF does an ALLEGED (likely FALSE) release of medical records come into this nonsense?

I HATE scrambled eggs when it comes to defining issues.

[Lavalamp]

27. WTF are you talking about?

I am asking rather or not this doctor was allowed to divulge medical information with out consent.

Talk about spin...

[Heddi]

34. No, that doctor is NOT allowed to divulge that information

that totally violates HIPPA, which is a retroactive law, and which forbades a doctor (or anyone else with access to medical records) from releasing ANY medical information w/o the patients written, informed consent.

This is totally wrong. Where the fuck is the outrage?!

[Jackpine Radical]

38. HIPAA

has nothing to do with military medicine. There is no confidentiality in military medicine. I'm pretty sure of this because I spent my last 4 months in Nam as a psych tech (after 8 mo in the infantry & a few bullet holes). Anything those guys told me or the psychiatrist was subject to disclosure to military authorities.

[Just Me]

42. Well, then,...why aren't Bush's COMPLETE records open?

If being a member of the military means NO privacy rights,...then, there should be NO sheltering of any records. Right?

On edit,...including those which "allegedly" had him doing "public service"?

[Heddi]

43. Oh, okay...but a question

you say that anything that was told to you or the Psych. was subject to discloure TO MILITARY AUTHORITIES.

But is that material subject to disclosure to TV stations? To newspapers?

Do the new HIPPA rules/regulations that just recently went into effect have any bearing on the military? I know that a few years ago they 're-did' HIPPA and made it much stronger and much more stringent with regards to privacy rights, which has caused alot of headaches on both the patient and health-care side, but also prevented alot of problems as well.

I can understand records being available for MILITARY purposes---but I can't believe this guy is able, legally, to disclose personal medical information in a PUBLIC way, like talking about it on TV or writing about it in a book or newspaper or whatever. If that is the case, then, that's really fucked up!!! Yet another reason I'm glad I never went into the Military :)

[Jackpine Radical]

56. I would assume that the information belonged to the military,

and would not necessarily be subject to release to just anyone. My experience dates to 1968, long before FOIA, etc., so I can't reallysay anything about how things played out after that date. I do know that, in those days, medical records didn't seem to be treated with any more confidentiality than any other kind of personal records. When you travelled from one unit to another, your medical records were bundled in with all your other records. Having current experience as a psychologist in private and Correctional setings, I do know that the med records are now treated with a much higher degree of confidentiality than in the old military. Medical records of Corrections clients are treated with the same confidentiality as those of private citizens. When someone moves around in the correctional system, their med records move separately from the general records.

[teryang]

51. The Privacy Act protects medical records

...including military medical records. I'm not sure that HIPAA doesn't apply but I haven't read it in a few months. Why wouldn't it apply to disclosure of government medical records?

Contemporary records of incidents recorded in service medical records are accorded more weight than recall decades later. Memory is notoriously unreliable particularly in a politically charged atmosphere.

A lot of the swift boat people hate Kerry for political reasons that go back to the war.

[trogdor]

68. I beg to differ...

...there is a little matter known as the Privacy Act of 1974 to consider. Medical records are For Official Use Only, and they cannot be divulged except under VERY serious circumstances, like a court-martial or something.

This is either complete bullshit, or the doc is breaking the law. Simple as that.

[Jackpine Radical]

71. You could be right. My experience dates from 1968, not 1974.

I have no basis for knowing anything about how the 1974 Privacy Act relates to the military.

I do know that the PA covered a lot more than medical records, though.

In fact, the 1974PA was passed not long after I collected the data for my PhD dissertation. I wouldn't have been able to get the data I did from school records if the PA had been in place at that time.

[Just Me]

37. Okay,...I'm not looking for a fight. Why don't you ascertain,...

,...whether or not "consent" was obtained and report back, right away!!!

If this "doctor" is doing something for which he was NOT given consent, he is really f-uped!!!!

Also, I apologize if I offended you. I just wanted to distinguish the issues. Know what I mean?

:bounce:

You have a great contributing point. I messed up. Sorry. :hug:

[Just Me]

22. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh, good grief,...give me a BREAK!

These garbage-producers will put out absolutely anything.

They MUST be very desperate.

:kick:

[union_maid]

28. How old is this doctor now?

Just wondering.

[lumpy]

66. Letson is retired.

Likely a good Alabama Republican working for the party.

[yellowcanine]

29. The good Doc violated medical ethics rules among other things

First of all he had no right talking about his treatment of Kerry without Kerry's permission, regardless of how long ago it occured. Secondly, no honest doctor testifies to how he treated a patient based on memory, regardless of how long he sat down and wracked his brain about it. This guy is either a liar or completely unethical or both.

[Bandit]

59. Do you people know what GI stands for

It means Government Issue. People in the military belong to the military. Something very close to slavery. A person has no confidentiality at all. The military can do anything they please with that person or their records. There is no patient-doctor privilege.

[Bake]

76. I can tell you this as a litigator

We get medical records from the VA all the time, and they will NOT release them without a signed authorization that complies with HIPAA.

Bake

[Imalittleteapot]

30. Guess the cons and freepers would be happier if

"JFK04" had a bullet lodged in his brain and lost his eye sight. The Purple Heart issue is absurd. It's already been said a bizillion times - Kerry didn't ask for the PH!!!!!!!!!!!!! I doubt that the attending physician would remember the (alledged) insignificant incident.

[Ruby Romaine]

32. you could lose your legs & an arm & it wouldn't matter to those

chickenhawks!

[yardwork]

48. They don't care. Max Cleland left three limbs in Vietnam

and look how they treated him.

These guys don't care. about. ethics.

[jdj]

33. The only thing I can find on open secrets on this

guy is a $250 donation in '98 to Bud Cramer, a democratic Alabama rep.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Sorry, but Bud Cramer is my rep, and he's as close to a Republican as...

...you can get without claiming the party affiliation. He's known as a "blue dog" Democrat...very conservative, and vary much aligned with Big Business in this area. Check Cramer's voting record, and you won't find a real Democrat.

[Dhalgren]

60. I agree with you about Bud.

He is a DINO! I keep waiting for him to switch parties like that lying, pos Shelby!

[donotpassgo]

39. Sad. I guess since the extent of Bush's "war wounds" were

scrapes and cuts from driving his car into a tree after a bender.

[noonwitch]

67. I thought you were going to say "ruptured nasal membrane"

snort, snort.

[Octafish]

40. Shrapnel, even half-an-inch-long, can kill a man.

Bush wouldn't know what that means.

I'd like to know how this doctor voted the last selection. Sounds like he plays a lot of golf with his GOP buds at the all-white country club.

Kerry received three Purple Hearts. While none of the wounds left him maimed, any one of them could have killed him.

Then there's the matter of how he won his Bronze Star and Silver Star:

The Bronze Star was for saving a man who fell off another boat that hit a mine in an ambush. While under fire, Kerry personally ;ulled the Green Beret lieutenant from the drink and was wounded in the arm in the process.

The Silver Star was for attacking when his patrol came under fire from shore. Instead of retreating or running, which was SOP at the time in an ambush, Kerry turned his boat into the fire, ran her up shore, jumped off and killed the enemy soldier who tried to fire an RPG at his boat.

Question for the Freeps: Where was Bush then?

Answer: Drunk on his ass stealing Christmas wreaths.

[indypaul]

41. One certainly deserves a purple heart

for a shrapnel wound during combat, no matter the
size of the piece of shrapnel or the size of the
wound. Maybe the good doctor can tell us what decoration
is awarded for refusing to piss in the bottle?
Let Rove, and his group of chicken-hawks answer that one.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

44. Other NAVY vets..... a question.... swift boats in Cam Ranh Bay?

I thought they were all in the Delta. I could be wrong, I never was up to Cam Ranh Bay, but that would be Market Time stuff. I thought Kerry was riverine delta boats.

Anyone know for sure? Sounds weird to me,.

[UTUSN]

47. Plus COLMES Said This Dude's Name Doesn't Match the Records n/t

[leesa]

49. Republicans are just lower than dirt, aren't they?

They would do or say anything to win.

[Toucano]

50. Alabama State Records

Licensee Name LETSON , LOUIS ETHERIDGE, JR
Status ACTIVE-RETIREMENT WAIVER
Location SCOTTSBORO, AL
Birthdate 05/09/1940
License Number 00005455
License Issue Date 09/01/1970
Expire Date 12/31/2004
*ACSC NO
Public File: NO
Primary Specialty FAMILY PRACTICE
Medical School Name UNIV OF AL SCHOOL OF MEDICINE TUSCALOOSA
Medical School Location TUSCALOOSA, AL
Medical School Dates 9/62-5/66
* ACSC = Alabama Controlled Substance Certificate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The date of this file is 04/28/2004

On edit: Forgot link
http://cgi.docboard.org/cgi-shl/nhayer.exe

[lumpy]

69. Louis Letson's medical license was issued

Sept.9, 1970. His medical school dates are Sept 1962/May 1966. Kerry's 1st Purple Heart was earned Dec.2,1968. It has always been my understanding that it takes more than three years to become a medical doctor. This begs the question, was Letson a license doctor while in Viet Nam or a field medic. Something just doesn't jibe.

[Toucano]

75. It begs for close scrutiny doesn't it. n/t

[Seldona]

53. Kerry served. *Bush didn't.

It is that simple.

And as for whether or not his wounds merited the ph, well that was up to those that put him up for them.

A bunch of chickenhawks going after people like Kerry, McCain, and Cleland makes me just sick.

My uncle, a diehard Republican and a former door gunner in Nam, simply HATES *Bush.

He is of the opinion that those who never served have NO RIGHT to question those that did.

I hope more vets realize just how much neocons hate our soldiers.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

54. SO let me get this straight

A guy that nearly kills himself eating a pretzel is questioning the veracity of Kerry's war wounds?

Or better yet:

PEOPLE who support a guy who can't eat a pretzel without causing a national emergency are questioning Kerry's war wounds

Or BETTER yet:
Bush was drunk






Kerry was in Viet Nam

[The_Casual_Observer]

55. They can't find anything else to discredit him with

So they have chosen this line of attack. It can't possibly work, they must know that it is beginning to look like a landslide and they are desperate, not so much for bush, but for the retention of the tax breaks.

[AZCat]

63. This article LIES! Check the CampaignDesk.org debunking...

links
Fact Check: Lost in the Fog of War Records
http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000451.asp

Fact Check: Hurt in the Fog of War
http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000456.asp

The first paragraph of the NR article
<snip>
Some critics of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry have questioned the circumstances surrounding the first of three Purple Hearts Kerry won in Vietnam. Those critics, among them some of Kerry's fellow veterans, have suggested that a wound suffered by Kerry in December 1968 may have made him technically eligible for a Purple Heart but was not severe enough to warrant serious consideration, even for a decoration that was handed out by the thousands. Whatever the case, Kerry was awarded the Purple Heart, and, along with two others he won later, it allowed him to request to leave Vietnam before his tour of duty was finished. (empasis mine)
<snip>

From Fact Check: Lost in the Fog of War Records
<snip>
A further issue of contention in Kerry's military record is the candidate's reassignment to the rear after receiving three Purple Hearts. While all the papers have correctly reported that this did, in fact, occur, there appears to be a disagreement as to whether Kerry was ordered out of Vietnam, or if he submitted a request to be moved off the front.

For example, today's Chicago Tribune writes that after Kerry received three Purple Hearts, "he requested and eventually was granted a transfer out of Vietnam ..."

Similarly, USA Today's version noted that Kerry's Purple Hearts "allowed him to apply for early departure from Vietnam."

Conversely, today's New York Times took a stronger tone, writing "as was the custom" Kerry "was ordered out of Vietnam" after earning his third Purple Heart.

The policy in question, the impenetrably-named BUPERS Instruction 1300.39, is no longer in place. During Vietnam, it mandated that any soldier "wounded three times, regardless of the nature of the wound or treatment required" should be "reassigned as having completed a full Vietnam tour with the hospital release date considered the tour completion date. They will not be ordered to Vietnam ..."

Furthermore, the official U.S. Navy document states that, "The commanding officer of an officer who is hospitalized and/or wounded under the above criteria will advise the Chief of Naval Personnel (Pers-B1) of the officer's location, duty status, and expected duration of hospitalization. Reassignment of the officer will be determined after consideration of his physical classification and on an individual basis."

An additional, virtually unreported section of the Navy code, notes that any soldier wishing to "waive reassignment under the purview of this Instruction must forward a written request to that effect to the Chief of Naval personnel (Pers-B) for final determination."

Kerry, of course, chose not to waive this order, and his commanding officers request for re-assignment can be viewed (PDF file) on the candidate's Web site. (emphasis mine)
<snip>



The two articles also deal with the issue of Kerry receiving the Purple Hearts- a good read, even if a couple of weeks old.

[lumpy]

64. Byron York, author

of the National Review article is a raving Republican doing his best to smear Democrats in the House and Senate. His articles are tremendously biased. Are there any Alabamans out there who know anything about Dr.Louis Letson who claims to have a very distinct memory of Kerry's wound ??? I sincerely hope that Kerry clears up the truth of his purple heart decoration. I am so suspect of anyone who would do anything to discredit Kerry.

[wabeewoman]

70. I wonder if the people who listen/watch

this realize while they are talking about Kerry's purple hearts and war wounds, here is bush stoking the hatred of Americans in every way he can, trying to totally ruin this country. Makes the discussion about purple hearts seem petty and ridiculous. Of course, its food for the trolls.

[MallRat]

72. DOCTOR-PATIENT PRIVILEGE, anyone?!?!

This hack should lose his license.

-MR

[The Magistrate]

73. To Sum Up

This "doctor" is not listed as the treating physician on the report of the wound, made public by Sen. Kerry's campaign, and did not receive his medical lisence until two years after Lt. Kerry suffered the wound in question.

"What a ultra-maroon!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[chuckhoward]

74. fake doctor

I've spent some time looking for that medical report on the Kerry web site. Can you provide some more detail or perhaps a link to the actual document?

[The Magistrate]

77. There Is A News Report Here, Sir

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1532967

Welcome to the Forum, by the way....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"