CNN: Kerry wants zero-tolerance for gang violence

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/22/kerry.violence.ap/index.html

Democrat John Kerry says as president he would direct a zero-tolerance policy for gang violence and spend more on programs aimed at steering urban youth away from crime.

Kerry was announcing his plan Thursday at a convention of the Urban League, which also will hear from President Bush on Friday.

<snip>

"We can do so much better," Kerry said in remarks prepared for delivery, "better for the communities that are living in fear because of gang violence, and better also for these young people who have a real future if we reach out to them."

"We need to send young people a strong, clear message that there is another path, and if they are willing to take that path, we will be there with them with job training, job opportunities, and drug treatment."

[Cocoa]

1. this article should mention that Kerry was a prosecutor

I never hear about this part of his background, I bet only a small fraction of voters know about it. A speech about crime, this would be the perfect place to inform readers about it.

[RamboLiberal]

6. It will be interesting what speech Chimpy gives Friday

Is he going to give his "I made America safer and No Child Left Behind, Faith Base yada, yada, yada" speech.

I immediately said YES when I read this headline. While not as bad as other cities, shootings in my area (Pittsburgh) have become more brazen and common and a lot of it relates to gang violence.

In just last couple of weeks we had a shooting at the 4th of July fireworks and a mid-day shoot out in the middle of downtown.

Interestingly right now the ATF and FBI are doing task force operations against criminals with guns, but it sure doesn't seem to be doing much yet.

[cprise]

2. Salute

[havocmom]

3. Zero tollerance for the violence of the bush*/Cheney gang for sure (n/t)

[AlCzervik]

4. I'm glad to hear that

i live south of Sacramento, aka the meth capitol of the country and we have some major gang related activity up here. In the scaremnto regeion alone there ahve been over 150 homicides since jan 1 and many are drive by shootings.

[David__77]

5. I live in Sacramento too.

But I don't think that special "anti-gang" laws are the solution. They target youth of color disproportionately. Standard laws against criminal activity are sufficient, given the proper resources. Anti-gang laws make criminals out of many innocent youth--for such "crimes" as talking with a group of friends in public or speaking on a cellular phone.

[shanti]

37. another sacramentan here:-)

you are right, people of color are disproportionately targeted, but doesn't that happen everywhere?

[JayS]

48. Yup, this is the way it usually goes. n/t

n/t

[Mr.Green93]

7. banning hand guns would be a start

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. as well as teenagers gathering in groups

I don't see how you can effectively fight gangs anymore than you can regular crime.

[RamboLiberal]

10. Bull on the handgun ban

Banning drugs really works right? Banning alcohol really worked during Prohibition? What makes you think that illegal handguns won't still be around?

So let's punish everyone who has a handgun for protection, sport, etc., just cause some idiots run in gangs and think every diss has to be handled with a bullet.

Sorry, but this is one area I part from liberal thinking.

I think SoCalDem's post hits what will help stop gang violence.

[LifeDuringWartime]

17. i know how banning handguns could work

GPS ID chips installed in every citizen's neck, and metal detectors at the entrance of every public building and business.

and of course federal officers with rotweilers on every street corner.

dont forget your prozium

[SoCalDem]

9. Want to stop gangs and the violence that comes with them??

1. decent housing
2. real playgrounds with real equipment for little kids
3. real jobs for teens
4. guaranteed 2 yrs at community college with a C+ or better GPA
5. guaranteed 2 yrs at state college with a B or better GPA at community college
....


Give kids a GOAL..and they can achieve it..

Desperation and hopelessness are what feeds gangs..

Instead of jails, we need to be building community colleges , real technical/vocational schools, and regular colleges..

It's cheaper to teach them , than to incarcerate them.

[cprise]

12. This makes the MOST sense

...of any response so far in this thread.

If America is too high and mighty to be bothered with enticing the young and the poor to join its civilization and to care for it, then it will have to pay the wages of indifference and worse.


Education

Rehabilitation

Society

[SoCalDem]

13. they join gangs because they are desperate to "belong"

They have fractured families, and they see nothing good ahead for themselves.. If they had it in writing... a promise of college... they would try harder and see a future for themselves..

If you have no future, the present is meaningless.:(

[cprise]

15. That's why the European Left

...emphasizes 'society'. It is something you belong to, beyond family. An indifferent society is going to do nothing to nurture kids. To have a good society, people must know and feel they belong JUST because they're people.

It's a lot of that "1960s consensus" stuff Tony Blair rails against as he tries to Americanize the UK's economy and institutions.

[Iris]

16. "1960s consensus"

It makes me so sad that building a sense of community is so maligned in our culture today.

[stevedeshazer]

24. You are right on

My wife is a juvenile court counselor and administrator. She would definitely agree.

[JayS]

18. This will be the hardest to get people to care about. Getting...

...the violent criminals off the streets or confined to certain neighborhoods will be "problem solved" for most people. Until the violent criminals are off the streets none of what you mention is possible; crime is the most basic problem of society that must be dealt with if that society is to flourish. I strongly agree with the "new brand" of gun/gang control that is currently ramping up but something must be done about the problems that bred the violent criminals to begin with. People in these areas don't have much money and tend not to vote so I don't know if they are going to get much more than lip service though.

[cprise]

21. That thinking produced the explosion in American prisoners

This is a Kerry promise to keep feeding the very large and powerful "law enforcement" (prison) industry.

[JayS]

23. In a way, yes. For example, Three Strikes started out as a...

...simple, workable plan to get the worst of the worst off the streets. By the time it became law, it was so mangled it was no longer recognizable and you had people getting twenty years for stealing a video.

Putting people in jail for long periods of time for petty drug offenses started out as a stupid idea to get people to stop using drugs. It remains a stupid idea but has grown to criminal proportions.

The new brand of gun/gang control is a simple, workable plan. It was designed to do gang/gun control and only that. Unfortunately, the War On Drugs is working its way into the program so look for less effectiveness at stopping gang and gun violence and more people in jail and branded for life as a criminal. Note that this program works best if you send petty drug convictions to a medical court and not a criminal one so that you have room to keep those that need to be locked up, locked up.

[depakid]

19. I think that's about the most sensible thing I've ever heard

about this issue.

Thank you.

[SoCalDem]

26. Thank you, too

I can't help but think that EVERY Mom in the world looks into her newborn's eyes, and sees a successful person.. apresident, a basketball star, a teacher, a Mom.. They do not see a gangster..

The first 6 or 7 years of a little kid's life determine how successful (or not) they will be in high school.. Most little kids LOVE school (especially if they do not have a structured homelife)..

If a teacher could let them and their parents know that college was a done deal for them if they studied... by the time they got to the dangerous age (puberty and beyond), they would have that promise of something GOOD, instead of the allure of something BAD..

I firmly believe this....call me Pollyanna :P

[ilovenicepeople]

27. OUCH!!

The searing pain of logic!:hi:

[BattyDem]

31. "It's cheaper to teach them, than to incarcerate them"

Exactly!

I'm glad that Kerry sees there are solutions to this problem that don't involve throwing them in jail. Most politicians believe the answer is longer sentences and more prisons. :eyes:

"Desperation and hopelessness are what feeds gangs..."

Desperation and hopelessness also feed street crime, domestic violence and child abuse ... and terrorism. We will never solve "violent" problems until we start addressing the cause of the violence.

[JayS]

33. The way that I read the article is that the violent will be thrown...

...in jail; I seriously doubt he would get elected with a "let's be nice to them" message. He does at least address the causes that give rise to the violence in the first place. I'll have to see what happens in practice though; the second part of the equation usually only gets lip service.

[SoCalDem]

34. I agree too, IF it's jail for the older ones, but

if throwing teenagers in jail for long periods of time is the plan, I disagree..

THESE PEOPLE EVENTUALLY COME OUT OF JAIL..

When they do, they are still uneducated, they are still angry (if not even MORE than when they went in), society does NOT welcome them back, there are no REAL solutions waiting for them, to help them re-integrate into society..

That's the revolving-door "solution"..

Intervention BEFORE the fact is the only real solution..

The solution must be for girls as well.. Teen Moms, and the acceptance of that, are a lot of the problem too.. BUT if a 10 yr old girl "knew" that she could go to college, she might actually value her life more than to get pregnant at 15..

We must find a way to change their lives...and do it at a time that will prevent the gang/destructive behavior.

[JayS]

40. I agree with you about the older ones, but I would draw the line...

...at a fairly young age with perhaps an intermediate "age band" where a radical approach is used to try and turn them around. For my area and generation, it was the MMA (Marine Military Academy) that was our place to be sent to if the wrong behavior could not be corrected; you quickly learn that there is no shortage of people that really are bigger and badder than you.

The murder rate was supposed to rise substantially for us in 2003 because so many older gang members were to be released and once released they would try and regain their old positions in the gang, and of course this would involve much killing. The new gang/gun control measures went into effect, the gang leaders went back to jail for an "extended stay" and the murder rate only went up slightly. These events show a correlation between stronger crime measures and less murder but it is too early to show causation for sure...but I'm betting we will see causation soon.

I also agree that what college is all about, how to get there, and what you will get in return must be taught EARLY, and then preached regularly all throughout the students K-12 days. It must be drilled into them that if you make the grades and keep your record (and credit) clean then you have a good shot at making something of yourself. Since these students are more than likely poor, they should also be shown that there are ways to get to college that don't involve being a sports star and successful minorities must be cajoled, pleaded with, begged, and/or mildly threatened :) to come and talk with these kids.

On a side note, I would like to see an anti-drug message like the one we informally got from a teacher when we were in 5th grade or so. We were told that drugs are GREAT and will make you feel GREAT...at first, then hell later. I am certain this teacher would be jailed for such a message today but it was effective for us and better than that crap they are running now. That "It's just a little pot" commercial make me want to go buy some and then smoke it while bashing a blunt object against my head.

[SoCalDem]

43. I was a teen in the 60's and have NEVER even smoked pot..

It was all over the place, but it's a personal choice, and I chose not to. I don;t ever even remember a single "anti-drug" message..

I just had OTHER things that interested me.. That's what it's about.. Kids have to be engaged in activities that are positive.. If they have NOTHING in their lives, it's easy to see why they choose the "lazy or easy" way to live..

[JayS]

45. Where I grew up marijuana did, and most likely still does, grow...

...wild, mostly in the ditches. We called it ditch weed for that reason. We didn't mess with it because inhaling smoke would make it hard to run a lot, which we needed to do if we wanted to be good at all the games we played...and to chase girls. Marijuana also had the stigma of being the drug that the "lazy and shiftless" people did.

In spite of living in a community that made dirt poor look like the high life, we had little worries of being shot at, stabbed, beaten up, kidnapped, and so forth. If you planned on going hunting with a teacher after school you could take a gun to school...so long as it was left with the principal (or in the teacher's car) and okayed with him in advance; a knife was okay if it was not so big as to cause a distraction. We had hopes for better things...and acted accordingly.

[rastignac5]

39. I agree with all this but

you still need to get the gangs off the streets and into prison. They take over neighborhoods and make any kind of peaceful culture impossible.

Then instititute the social measures to save the next generation.

[JayS]

41. Well said. I do hope that once the gangs are out of the...

...equation society does not declare "problem solved!" and then walk away until the next generation comes online.

[psychopomp]

42. So true

Gang violence is a major problem but the thought of a politician calling for "zero tolerance!" sounds too much like a "war on gang violence." What that has meant in the United States is a war on African-American young men.

This is coming on the heels of a call to "repress the Detroit vote" which DU'ers rightly saw as thinly-veiled code for "suppress the black vote." Is this what Kerry was talking about when he said he intended to reach out to the right-wingers? I mean that.

Reagan, Bush I and even Clinton pulled that race-baiting crap. I had hoped that Kerry would be so bold as to not go that route.

[qwlauren35]

50. Interesting...

I just read Chimp's Urban League speech and he talks about 1 out of 5 - more federal aid to community colleges.

I will have to read Kerry's entire speech in order to see if he has a program that *I* think can make a difference in view of urban gangs.

BTW, there are many urban gangs of color, but they're definitely not all black. There are SERIOUS Asian gangs in Massachussetts.

[SoCalDem]

52. There are gangs of ALL colors here in CA..

A smidgen of federal money will NOT do the trick..

This is a POVERTY issue..and it transcends all races..

Every community knows where its poor sections are.. There are countless empty buildings just sitting there.. Teachers are "portable"...books are "portable".. Fix those places up, and turn them into community colleges and vocational training centers.. Giving a kid a free education and a leg-up into a decent life, is a nobrainer..Building that are valued by a community are less likely to be vandalized..

The college students could tutor the younger kids.. Older people in the community couild mentor and babysit..

It is a community-wide effort that is needed, but FIRST..the money must flow into the infrastructure. These communities cannot do it on their own.. They have been decimated by years of inattention.

[Bread and Circus]

53. Agree

[JayS]

11. Kerry is a bit out of the loop on this one.

There is already a program in place that deals with gang/gun violence and has shown great promise so far. It is the "new brand" of gun control that sadly few Democrats endorse.

I think he may be referring to the use of the RICO act in combating gangs here, but I am not sure.

The Kerry campaign said similar programs in cities like Indianapolis, Rochester, New York, and Stockton, California, have been successful at making the whole gang accountable for violent members.

[baldguy]

14. Does that include these guys?

[shanti]

38. actually

i was thinking of the gang of squatters in the white house!

[Democat]

20. Damn, we just lost the gang vote!

:)

[cprise]

22. Yeah, and driving while black will become even more impossible

If "zero-tolerance laws" were being proposed by Bush, you would be frothing at the mouth.

[supperDem]

25. I think a massive gun ban is in order here

If these misguided kids did not have such easy access to guns then they would not be led astray. Best we ban these problem guns now before this problem gets worse.

[ilovenicepeople]

29. "I think a massive nun ban is in order here"

If these misguided kids did not have such easy access to nuns then they would not be led astray.Best we ban these problem nuns now before this problem gets worse. (PARODY):hi: :grouphug:

[w4rma]

36. Your opinion, supperDem, is a minority, thank goodness. (nt)

[NickB79]

47. How has gun access become easier?

Given the fact that most of the 20,000+ federal and state gun laws on the books have been written in the past 30 yrs? Were there background checks 50 yrs ago? No. Were there laws prohibiting buying guns through the mail? No, you could order rifles, shotguns and handguns through the mail, no questions asked. How has gun access become easier?

I hate this argument. People expect me to believe that guns are more easily available today than they were 50 yrs ago, a time when ever mom-and-pop store sold guns and ammo, far more households had guns for hunting than today, people rode around with shotguns in the back of their pick-ups, and you could simply pick up a magazine, spend $30 and have a mil-surplus rifle or handgun shipped directly to your front door, along with a case of ammo for it?

[Pepperbelly]

28. Any time I hear the phrase "Zero Tolerance" --I grab my wallet...

Much abuse has arrivede cloaked in the phrase "zero tolerance".

Zero tolerance is never good policy.

on edit for clarification -- zero tolerance is always abused. Always.

[GreenArrow]

35. just to reiterate...

ALWAYS.

It's a bankrupt approach, and an abdication of responsiblity, demonstrating a lack of creativity and imagination.

[Citizen Daryl]

30. "Zero Tolerance" makes me cringe.

Unless you mean "zero tolerance" for the financial and social conditions that cause poor kids to join gangs.

[JayS]

32. Zero Tolerance is a good idea if the problem that society will...

...accept no tolerance for is worth the attention; all too often it is not. It must also be Zero Tolerance with common sense exceptions and judicial leeway; too often it is not.

Zero Tolerance towards illegal drug use is stupid; this is a medical problem, not a criminal one and should be treated accordingly. The War On Drugs, as it is currently being fought, provides the fuel, money, that these gangs need. It is just political rambling if this fact is not addressed.

Zero Tolerance towards gang/gun violence is perfectly acceptable to me. I will not support a candidate that does not endorse this as crime, especially violent crime, must be dealt with if the social problems that lead to the crime problem in the first place is to be solved.

I am glad that Kerry is finally addressing the crime issue in a meaningful way. It will determine whether or not he gets my vote. I also do not want to see the current program terminated no matter who wins the election.

[skooooo]

44. Kerry's just using their own buzz words against them...

....Everyone likes buzzwords, even though they don't mean a damn thing in reality.

[JayS]

46. Sadly, you are probably right. I do hope that whoever wins...

...this election will keep to the new "brand" of gang/gun control and not keep on pushing the same tired policies and ignoring the root causes of so much of our violence. My cynical view is that a good plan will be made unworkable through general political incompetence.

I also hope that whoever wins will push for a program that is creakily going into place here whereby petty drug offenses go to a medical court and not a criminal one. A politician runs the risk of being labeled a "dope smoking hippie commie socialist nogoodnik" but once the benefits of such an approach is out there the public seems to be for it.

The benefits of such an approach are many. For starters, you do not get a "mark" on your record that will prevent you from getting a good job, or hired in the first place. If incarceration is prevented, the public will not lose the tax revenue from the jailed person nor pay to jail him, or pay to provide for his family if this becomes necessary. Once the jailed person becomes free but with a "mark for life" on his record, the public will not lose the tax revenue from the person most likely not getting a job, or getting a good one. There are a thousand other reasons but my fingers hurt. :)

[nightperson]

57. Democrats in general need to be tough on the issue of violent crime.

For example, not being tough enough is a reason liberal blue-state NYC has had Republican mayors and a Republican governor for so long. Also, hello, Cali brought in the Terminator. Crime and people feeling they are in a safe and perhaps even civilized environment is a big deal.

I'm glad to see Kerry addressing this stuff, cuz' I was really wondering when the Republicans might start looking to play this card. I'm not usually a fan of Bill Cosby but his recent "controversial" statements were needed. Heck, even "Native New Yorker" Eric Alterman has recently complained:

And speaking of low culture, I'm not sure gangsta-rap is worth whatever trade-off our society has made to enjoy it. Nick Crowe argues, "That the gangster urge has become the most popular expression of discontent among black communities is unquestionable. Its endless appetite for self-gratification, its self-destructive and inward nature contribute nothing to the community."

I agree with you, the War On Drugs is stupid, but otherwise, warring on violent crime is just common sense.

[sangh0]

49. Do "job training, job opportunities, and drug treatment" make you cringe?

That's what Kerry proposed. Maybe you should pay as much attention to the policies as you do to the buzz words

[qwlauren35]

51. For those who want a link to the entire speech...

Here it is.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0722.html

The plan isn't well articulated, so I find myself wanting to know more. But it's impressive.

What's also interesting is that Kerry offers similar small business strategies to what the Bush administration offers - this is important to point out to Bush-supporting black Republicans & fence-sitters.

[JayS]

54. Thanks for the link. You are right; it does not say much that...

...actually tells us anything. :)

[playahata1]

55. Anybody who wants to understand what drives kids to join gangs

should read the following:

DO OR DIE -- Leon Bing
MONSTER -- Sanyika Shakur
THE ICE OPINION -- Ice-T
STREET SOLDIERS -- Joseph Marshall with Lonnie Wheeler

[JayS]

56. I had no idea that Ice-T wrote a book! n/t

n/t

[Gregorian]

58. Are gangs really an issue?

I must really be out of touch. I've never even seen a gang. Can they really be an issue for America? I kind of doubt it. And again, why the symptom? Why not just fund schools, and find ways to allow parents to spend time with their kids. How about putting better shows on tv? I'll bet money that would keep kids occupied. Why does zero tolerance sound like such bullshit to me? I think it's because punitive actions don't work, and because it leaves the cause untouched. Why not find out what makes kids do things that are less than social. I really think the answer isn't in the kids. I think it's in the overall society. Stop the wars. Stop the corporate soul starvation. Raise the level of discussion. Make learning fun.
Punish the fascists, not the poor kids.

I took my Kerry stickers off my car. Sorry bro.

[JayS]

59. Gangs are a big issue in this country because of the high...

...level of violence that comes with them. A combination of extremely tough punitive measures and massive social projects are needed to deal with them. Unfortunately, we only seem to do some of the first and little of the second.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JayS]

61. My understanding of the new gun control program in the states...

...where it is in place is that gangs can be charged under RICO; I think this is only available under federal law but I will have to check on that. Gun violence now goes to a federal court and not a state one. It looks like the serious stuff will be going the federal route now. I'm okay with it as it does seem to be a partnership between local, state, and federal law enforcement.