AP: Iraqi police fires on Sistani supporters

[allemand]

No link yet. Just saw the headline on BBC News 24. They also showed some injured people.

Apparently, it happened in the town of Kufa. They were on their way to Najaf.

[still_one]

1. That is real smart, NOT!!!

[qanda]

2. Is this a civil war?

Can someone provide an analysis of what is happening there? I know Juan Cole is good at dissecting the dynamics of Iraq, but I'm not hearing much in the mainstream about how Iraqi police fighting other Iraqis is playing out in the national sentiment.

[htuttle]

7. I don't think it is a civil war

It's more like Vichy France.

That wasn't like a civil war either, it was just an occupation that had a bunch of collaborators.

When 99% of the country is on one side, and a few thousand scared collaborators are on the other side, it's hardly a civil war.

[babylon_system]

8. It's not full-scale civil war --- yet

But give Bush 4 more years and it surely will be.
Does Kerry have a real plan to get out though? Or has Bush left him with a hopeless quagmire from which the US cannot escape?

[Renew Deal]

12. The correct answer is B.

Kerry can only hope to not be a psychotic tyrant that Bush is. Other than that, he is getting into something ugly. Kerry is the better choice for the Iraq situation because you know Bush is fucking crazy.

[Larkspur]

24. Give Bush 4 more weeks and we could be witnessing the start of Armaggedon

And should shrub lose in November, I wouldn't be surprised if he launches a war against Iran.

[babylon_system]

25. WMDs WMDs WMDs WMDs WMDs WMDs WMDs WMDs

BUSH would love to bomb BUSHehr, the Iranian nuclear complex. They've been plotting this attack for years. Watch for it soon.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/bushehr.htm

[fsbooks]

26. Bush I invaded Somalia

in December 1992, after losing the election by before he had vacated the White House.

[David__77]

3. Sistani has an important choice to make.

He can be a collaborator or not. He would like to do neither, but he has no choice--he must make a choice.

[Briar]

20. Sistani made his choice

when he decided to go to London for treatment just as Allawi was closing down al Jazeera in Iraq and the marines were preparing to re-open hostilities with Sadr.

Now he hopes to come back and sweep away both the American besiegers and his young rival, and show up the interim government in the process. It's a risky plan, but it may succeed in making him the most powerful man in Iraq.

[babylon_system]

4. Everything is going according to plan. They only hate us for our success

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=6065%20

What do we call the enemy? George and Laura Bush were the guests on Larry King Live this Sunday,. In the context of the latest fighting in Najaf, King said to the President: "We've had more today, there are more eruptions in Iraq. And it seems never-ending, does it? What does it do to you?"

The President replied:
"We've got a great leader in Prime Minister Allawi. He's a tough guy who believes in free societies. And more and more Iraqis are being trained. And more and more Iraqis are stepping up to do the hard work of bringing these terrorists, these former Baathist and some foreign fighters to justice. And that's why we are going to prevail."

[coalition_unwilling]

5. a tough guy who believes in free societies

and who enforces that believe with extra-judicial assassinations of political opponents. See reports of Allawi's summary execution of suspected resistance fighrers six days before the so-called "transfer of sovereingty". (don't have those reports book-marked so can't provide links)

[markses]

6. As Mallory Knox said to Mickey Knox

Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad....

[neverborn]

22. Don't kill the Indian!

[allemand]

9. 2 Killed at Pro-Cleric March Near Najaf

KUFA, Iraq - Unidentified gunmen on Wednesday killed two people and wounded five others in what appeared to be a peaceful demonstration in support of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr in Kufa, northeast of Najaf, witnesses and hospital officials said.

Video footage from Associated Press Television News showed demonstrators wounded during a few minutes of heavy gunfire. It was unclear from the footage who was shooting.

Mohammed Abdul Kadhim, an employee at Kufa's Furat al-Awsat Hospital, said two marchers were killed and five wounded.

More:
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/state/9492953.htm

[allemand]

10. "Gunfire appeared to come from an Iraqi National Guard post"

2 killed at pro-cleric march near Najaf

<...>

Video footage from Associated Press Television News showed demonstrators wounded during a few minutes of heavy gunfire. It was unclear from the footage who was shooting.

<...>

The marchers chanted slogans in support of al-Sadr and carried pictures of the cleric as well as pictures of Grand Ayatollah Ali Husseini al-Sistani, the country's top Shiite leader.

<...>

Witnesses said the gunfire appeared to come from an Iraqi National Guard post, which sat behind concrete blast walls along the route. The automatic weapons fire sent the marchers into a panic, with many scurrying for safety and yelling angrily. No one in the crowd could be seen firing a weapon, and it was unclear whether the incident was a gunbattle or an unprovoked attack on the demonstration.

More:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apmideast_story.asp?category=1107&slug=Iraq%20Demonstrators%20Attacked

[Renew Deal]

11. Why would they shoot at their own people?

That's very sad.

[babylon_system]

14. They were well-trained by the US military

US puppet regime continues decades of brutal repression against Iraq's Shi'a population.

[allemand]

15. In order to prevent them from marching to Najaf

It seems that somebody wants to "finish the job" there with nobody interfering. :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

13. Oopsie.

This may be where the shit really hits the fan.

[UpInArms]

16. related article: Iraqis March To Najaf After Sistani’s Plea

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2004-08/25/article07.shtml

BASRA, August 25 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Hordes of Iraqis marched to Najaf Wednesday, August 25, responding to a plea by Iraq ’s top Shiite scholar Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani to 'save the city and end the US siege on its holies shrine'.

Sistani arrived back in the country earlier in the day, calling on Iraqis to be ready to join a mass rally to Najaf as fighting around Imam Ali shrine neared a climax.


Shiite Iraqis celebrate the return of Sistani

Cars carrying loudspeakers were seen roaming streets of southern Iraqi cities for rallying supporters. Calls came for forming convoys to break the seal-off of Najaf – which has been pounded by US warplanes and helicopter gunships for several days now.

"We began forming convoys, dozens of which already left for Najaf and others are on standby for further deployment," Sheikh Abdel-Hai Jawwad, a member of the Sadr office in Kadhemiya, told IslamOnline.net.


U.S. Army Bradley fighting vehicles patrol in central Najaf

...more...

[leftchick]

23. question.....

how many people constitute a "horde"... :shrug:

[PATRICK]

17. The peace march

in essence they could have swamped the standoff and demonstrated an even higher level power than the armed resistance(while in effect rescuing them!). Sistani had planned on leading a massive march, maybe a million, on Najaf to rescue the shrine. That would have been a Ghandian catalyst if he had any other goals in mind.

So the Iraqi police use a terror method, having little to lose they might think, but it's a typical reflex.

This may be the most critical story of the day.

[minkyboodle]

18. If this continues thats it for the occupation

If US and Iraqi National guardsmen are trying to provoke an all and out rebellion they certainly are doing a good job. This act could unite Sistani and Sadr supporters in a much stronger way and force Sistani's hand. Sistani is planning a march to Najaf sooner rather than later so I think we will see what's what very soon.

[allemand]

21. Sistani will travel to Najaf tomorrow

I wonder if they are going to shoot at him too. But it is more likely that there will be a final push tonight.

A BBC correspondent (Alastair Leithead) just reported (my transcript):

"I can see flames on the horizon over the old city, not just the smoke which has been characteristic of the scene from here on the roof of our hotel just one mile away from the shrine"

"Sniper fire has been reported from witnesses just outside the shrine doors, rockets have been landing, it really has seemed to have been a major push from the American forces and the Iraqi forces"

[geek tragedy]

19. End game.

Sistani marches on behalf of Sadr. Game fucking over.

[allemand]

27. Interesting media spin

The original headline probably was as it appeared on BBC News 24 "AP: Iraqi police fires on Sistani supporters".

But when the story hit the Internet more than an hour later, it already had been transformed into:
"2 Killed at Pro-Cleric March Near Najaf".

And most notably we now were no longer dealing with the Iraqi police, but with "unidentified gunmen".

One really wonders where these "unidentified gunmen" came from... :eyes:

At least the people who were shot don't seem to have any doubts about who opened fire at them:

"Abbas Hamid, 32, told AFP from his hospital bed that the demonstration in support of radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr began at 4pm outside the Kufa mosque.

"We were heading towards Najaf but when we reached the Al-Abassiya bridge, Iraqi police opened fire," he said.

He said the demonstrators had not passed a multinational force position, where witnesses had said the gunfire broke out."

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,1057234...

On edit:
I just saw a report on CNNI about the incident: they only spoke about "unidentified gunmen" and didn't mention of the Iraqi police at all... In other words: they realized the full spin potential of the AP report.

[paulk]

28. it's not necessarily spin

AP is getting it's reports 2nd and 3rd hand, just like everyone else.

It's a very confusing situation there, with several different factions active - ascertaining the truth of what went on here may not be possible.

[allemand]

29. Well, they had a least a cameraman at the scene

You can see the peaceful march and then suddenly the shooting erupts, and later you see the injured being carried away.
I think that the cameraman or the reporter directly at the scene was responsible for the first headline (of the television report). He knew who was shooting at the crowd.

The press version appeared one hour later, and suddenly there are those "unidentified gunmen". My guess is that this was the work of some editor, who didn't witness the events, but works in some office. He did the spin, and CNN then fully realized its potential.