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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:32 AM Original message |
Venezuelan opposition criticizes Chavez's land policy |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:33 AM Response to Original message |
1. Here is the reuters take on this... |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:35 AM Response to Original message |
2. And an intersting article from axisoflogic... |
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RUMMYisFROSTED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:19 PM Response to Reply #2 |
99. 3% owns77% ----- 50% owns 1%. |
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AnewerWay (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:39 AM Response to Original message |
3. He's becoming quite the dictator |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:44 AM Response to Reply #3 |
4. I wouldn't be so sure |
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el_gato (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:57 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. The rich elite in Venenzuela got that way by criminal behaviour |
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ret5hd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:58 AM Response to Reply #3 |
7. you might not know me... |
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Jerseygirltoo (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:09 AM Response to Reply #3 |
8. How did they get the land to begin with? |
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RUMMYisFROSTED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:31 PM Response to Reply #8 |
100. "tenancy contracts" |
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leesa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:18 AM Response to Reply #3 |
9. The rich have stolen that land long ago. He is just righting the wrong. |
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ugarte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:23 AM Response to Reply #3 |
10. What dictator goes before the people in an election? |
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allemand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:29 AM Response to Reply #3 |
15. 77% of Venezuela's farmland is owned by 3% of the population |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:14 AM Response to Reply #3 |
19. Land redistribution |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:01 PM Response to Reply #19 |
62. It also gives people a real asset against which to leverage their own |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 06:53 PM Response to Reply #19 |
93. Here is a link about Taiwan's Land to the Tiller program |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:33 AM Response to Reply #3 |
39. We had similar rules in the 1800's here in the US |
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:20 PM Response to Reply #3 |
52. yeah watch out! He's gonna spring out of little kids' closets next! |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:00 PM Response to Reply #3 |
61. Ever hear of adverse possession? In the US every state has an adverse |
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goforit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:07 PM Response to Reply #3 |
103. Hmmm....You could say the same about Bush taking Iraq....for oil!!!! |
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JSJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-04 05:15 AM Response to Reply #3 |
109. idle land = idle owner n/t |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:44 AM Response to Original message |
5. This is what really gets the US livid, the idea might be catching. nt |
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tlcandie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:27 AM Response to Original message |
11. Go Chavez go!!! eom |
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Old_Growth (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:46 AM Response to Original message |
12. Viva Chavez!!! |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:49 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. LOL Welcome to DU! |
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On the Road (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:15 AM Response to Original message |
14. On Margarita Island |
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paulk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:37 AM Response to Original message |
16. are the land owners being recompensed in any way? |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:46 AM Response to Reply #16 |
17. From the reuters article posted above |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:47 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Here: |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:20 AM Response to Reply #16 |
20. "recompensed" for what? |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:22 AM Response to Original message |
21. Mugabe Jr. |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:28 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. So if the land is lying unused, this helps the economy? |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:40 AM Response to Reply #22 |
23. Property Rights |
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not systems (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:44 AM Response to Reply #23 |
25. What about land stolen by your grandfather at end of a barrel of a gun? |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:05 PM Response to Reply #25 |
45. Japan? |
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not systems (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:17 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. Ask Okinawa if we gave it back. |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:35 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. Umm |
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not systems (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:45 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Very nice of the Japanese to let Okinawa be ... |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:49 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. yeah |
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not systems (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:54 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Most have the decency to pay. |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:08 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Gee |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:22 PM Response to Reply #45 |
53. You seem to be mixing socialism and communism intentionally |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:43 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. Leaning |
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Jerseygirltoo (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:49 PM Response to Reply #45 |
84. So I take it you have good health insurance? |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:48 AM Response to Reply #23 |
26. Perfectly democratic |
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allemand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:49 AM Response to Reply #23 |
27. So you think that the French Revolution was socialist too? |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:56 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. Taking |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:09 AM Response to Reply #29 |
33. But when it's done to build a stadium that enriches the wealthy, it's OK? |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:10 AM Response to Reply #29 |
34. 'There isn't even an issue of race' |
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allemand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:16 AM Response to Reply #29 |
36. What does cronyism in Zimbabwe have to do with land reform in Venezuela? |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:45 AM Response to Reply #29 |
41. Ugh, again it must be restated |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:10 PM Response to Reply #29 |
66. Zimbabwe certainly wasn't a net grain exporter. It's was a net TOBACCO |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:33 PM Response to Reply #66 |
74. FACT CHECK |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:49 PM Response to Reply #74 |
83. Uh, DUH. In a year they transition to land reform, grain production will |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:21 PM Response to Reply #83 |
104. FACT |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:39 PM Response to Reply #104 |
107. You have a link for that? |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-04 01:44 AM Response to Reply #104 |
108. One more thing. Racist. |
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Sandpiper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:50 PM Response to Reply #23 |
59. Then the United States must be Socialist |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:14 PM Response to Reply #59 |
68. Law |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:20 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. So you want to draw the line somewhere? |
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Sandpiper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:31 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. Why are you deliberately misstating the issue? |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 06:38 PM Response to Reply #73 |
92. That's because it's mine. All mine. |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:03 PM Response to Reply #23 |
63. Adverse possession is a core element of capitalism. |
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Sandpiper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:09 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. Exactly |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:17 PM Response to Reply #65 |
70. Land and labor. Source of all wealth. Every functioning society should |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:45 PM Response to Reply #70 |
76. And |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:42 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. "Foreign Investment" -- you mean like the kind that ruined Argentina? |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:46 PM Response to Reply #78 |
82. Did you Know |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:52 PM Response to Reply #82 |
85. What has Chávez nationalized? He's not nationalizing the land. He getting |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 03:08 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. Market Predictions |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 03:15 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. Ford has a problem with the rollovers, and it wasn't Chávez |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:29 PM Response to Reply #88 |
105. Did you read it? |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:36 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. Yeah, show me your other links |
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Jerseygirltoo (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:42 PM Response to Reply #23 |
79. LOL |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:58 PM Response to Reply #79 |
86. supposed to be |
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JSJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-04 05:17 AM Response to Reply #23 |
110. no property rights for the protected elites- what's fair for the poor... |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:44 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. "don't have the resources"??? |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:04 AM Response to Reply #24 |
32. "wealth" |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:12 AM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Wealth is being 'redistributed' all the time. |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:14 PM Response to Reply #35 |
47. Corporations |
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not systems (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:23 AM Response to Reply #32 |
37. The government redistributed a whole continent here from... |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:52 AM Response to Reply #37 |
43. Alas and alack, those 'owners' failed to register their deeds ... |
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not systems (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:05 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. and the pope. |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:24 PM Response to Reply #43 |
54. Pope Nicholas V and Pope Alexander VI, in particular. |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:18 PM Response to Reply #37 |
51. Romans |
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allemand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:02 AM Response to Reply #21 |
31. That comparison to Mugabe is pure slander |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:12 PM Response to Reply #31 |
67. That's not an honest characterization of Zimbawe, by the way. |
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allemand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:37 PM Response to Reply #67 |
77. I happen to disagree |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:45 PM Response to Reply #77 |
81. Forget Elich. I disagree with him. It's the interviews you should read. |
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allemand (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 04:39 PM Response to Reply #81 |
89. I wonder if you know Petals of Blood by Ngugi wa Thiong'o (1977) |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 04:53 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. Read the interview with Mugabe next... |
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Minstrel Boy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 02:43 PM Response to Reply #21 |
80. There's not a leader in the world with a greater mandate to govern |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 06:56 PM Response to Reply #21 |
94. Wrong. Peasant agriculture is by far the most efficient-- |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 08:25 PM Response to Reply #21 |
101. The peasants actually work the land |
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Bo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 10:52 AM Response to Original message |
28. Not another "Reforma Agraria" |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:14 PM Response to Reply #28 |
69. If it wasn't going to work, there wouldn't be so much resistance from the |
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Sandpiper (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:39 PM Response to Reply #69 |
75. Funny, isn't it? |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:05 PM Response to Reply #28 |
96. It worked just fine in Taiwan, and also in Kerala |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:00 AM Response to Original message |
30. What Thomas Jefferson said ... |
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Radius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:09 PM Response to Reply #30 |
46. Hey its their Bed, |
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aneerkoinos (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 06:58 PM Response to Reply #46 |
95. You are wrong |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:05 PM Response to Reply #46 |
97. A rational actor would use it in order to finance their property tax bill. |
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:26 AM Response to Original message |
38. The most telling part of this article is this: |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:39 AM Response to Reply #38 |
40. If these opposition apologists |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 11:49 AM Response to Reply #40 |
42. Ubetcha. |
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Vladimir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:17 PM Response to Reply #42 |
50. Enjoy schooling them guys |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 01:22 PM Response to Reply #50 |
72. I know. I'm sure there are some very interesting debates one could get |
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sadiesworld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 12:15 PM Response to Original message |
48. When I hear of Chavez's successes... |
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AlexanderBarca (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 05:14 PM Response to Original message |
91. The way I see it |
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AP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 07:11 PM Response to Reply #91 |
98. What do you think is unfair about the program they're using? |
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Tatiana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Aug-31-04 09:07 PM Response to Reply #91 |
102. I agree wholeheartedly. |
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Judi Lynn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-01-04 05:43 AM Response to Original message |
111. Tremendous thread, Valdimir. |
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