WP: Parallels Drawn Between CBS Memos, Texan's Postings

[kskiska]

Saturday, September 18, 2004; Page A02

The former Texas National Guard officer suspected of providing CBS News with possibly forged records on President Bush's military service called on Democratic activists to wage "war" against Republican "dirty tricks" in a series of Internet postings in which he also used phrases similar to several employed in the disputed documents.

Retired Lt. Col. Bill Burkett, who earlier said he overheard Bush aides conspiring with the commander of the Texas National Guard to "sanitize" the president's military records, has refused to comment on reports that he could be CBS's confidential source. In e-mails yesterday to The Washington Post, he said he would speak out "at the appropriate time" but "that time is not now."

In e-mail messages to a Yahoo discussion group for Texas Democrats over the past few months, Burkett laid out a rationale for using what he termed "down and dirty" tactics against Bush. He said he had passed his ideas to the Democratic National Committee but that the DNC seemed "afraid to do what I suggest."

In another message, dated Sept. 4, Burkett hinted he might have had advance knowledge of some details in an explosive segment that aired Sept. 8 on the CBS News program "60 Minutes." In addition to airing footage of an interview with former Texas lieutenant governor Ben Barnes saying he helped Bush get into the Guard, the network broadcast documents purporting to show that Bush had disobeyed a direct order to take a physical required to continue flying in the spring of 1972.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30043-2004Sep17.html

[mhr]

1. he would speak out "at the appropriate time" - More To Come Folks!

eom

[SoCalDem]

2. Isn't it amazing how "sleuthy" the press can be when there's a

possibility that Dems might actually have something on the cokehead-in-chief??

It's like they simply cannot believe it, and will go to any lengths to discredit the messenger..

[dumpster_baby]

3. Bill Burkett is an American Hero

Damn straight!

[KoKo]

4. How did Yahoo and "Online Journal" know it was Burkett who was e-mailing?

The article didn't say whether Burkett signed his name or both of the sites divulged private e-mail address or user name without contacting him.

How many people use their real name when posting on internet sites, anyway. So, how do they know it was Burkett.

I don't believe most of what WaPo reports anymore. They get all their info from the WH and Rove or Ops, twisting everything so that you can't tell the truth from the spin.

[Dover]

28. That was exactly my first thought. How was the author of the emails

discovered? I wouldn't register with Yahoo.

[WatchWhatISay]

32. Oh, he signs his name to the Yahoo group postings- everyone does

I used to belong to this group in 2002, but I got out of it because it became really devisive when David VanOs (now running for Texas Supreme Court)dropped out of the race to replace Molly Beth Malcolm for State Chair. Many in this progressive group had been responsible for getting David to run, and when he suddenly dropped out, some people were really angry. After a couple of months things were still afire there, and I got tired of it, and went on to other things.

Anyway, the group is composed of people who are incensed at how our state party had been running itself into the ground (ie, uninviting the "national Democrats" to speak at our convention because the sorry assed candidates such as Tony Sanchez and John Sharp, that we had at the time, supposedly didn't wan't the spotlight to be taken off of
them - of course, the real reason was because they were afraid of offending conservative Texas democrats and "swing voters" by bringing in a bunch of "liberals").

Most of us knew each other and most everyone used their real names. It is not secretive, any Democrat can join it.

I have never met Bill Burkett personally, but I once posted something that he had a big problem with, and he let me have it. I was pretty new to the group at the time, and I was sort of intimidated by his repsonse, because he was very well regarded and repsected by everyone there. I never figured out what I said that angered him so much, but his reaction was as if I had written something really radical. I remember he talked about me using rhetoric. The sense that I got of him was reflected in his Online Journal article "What Do You Say?"

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/what_do_you_say_032203.htm

snip-
Yes, we are on the edge. But there is no one who says that we have to help push this nation over the cliff. Instead, we must redouble our efforts. Being ever mindful of law and the tactics being employed, we must focus ourselves to what has been successful and keep it successful, while moving aggressively forward. We must withdraw the anger and be able to 'turn the other cheek,' for there will be many opportunities to do so. Our battles must be waged with resolve, not emotion.

We must be vigilant. We must be credible. We must be respectful of those who are entrapped within this immoral act. And we must be the best educators that have ever stepped forward on this earth. We must be teachers in the image of Peter, John and Mark; the disciples of Christ, or their equivalents within Judaism, or the Muslim Faith, or the great philosophers. We must grow a new generation of those who believe that war is the last resort, not the first. And we must call them patriots, for their battle is not protected by flack vests, armor plating, or armor piercing rounds.
-snip

[KoKo]

43. Thanks for that info. The article made it sound like it was "chat room"

postings. Sounds like you were involved in a serious discussion on Yahoo.

Thanks for the extra info...

[Zeusmeister]

5. Texan's Postings

I'm feeling really uneasy about this. Let's face it, the CBS docs are forgeries, and not very good ones. If they can link this up with Kerry, he's toast. Rather claimed (even after the forgeries became apparent) that his source was impeccable, beyond reproach. If it turns out that the souce is this former mental patient from Texas, we could have a big problem. The Swift Boat stuff has passed; we probably shouldn't get into something that can hurt us big time.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. Lurker?

[bagnana]

7. no, lets pursue it.

Let's keep digging and digging and digging. The end will be that * is revealed as the awol druggy lazy stupid coward that he is. Thank you.

[democrat in Tallahassee]

8. why are they forgeries? I've never understood how that was proven?

Prey tell enlighten me as to how thou knowest so much

[meisje]

12. Yes Mr. 2 posts, enlighten us!

[Mikimouse]

9. Fromer mental patient? I didn't see that in the article...

but then, silly me, I didn't know that the documents had finally and officially been proven to be fake. Oh well. <sigh> C'ya

[blitzen]

11. "former mental patient"???? Burkett is a hero...read this and weep

(or should I say freep)

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/what_do_you_say_032203.htm

[stepnw1f]

13. Heh?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. Get lost.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. I'm feeling really uneasy about this

So am I. What are you doing here and why?

[TacticalPeek]

16. New Yawkers's postings

I'm feeling really uneasy about this post. Let's face it, the CBS docs have not been proved forgeries, and they fit well with known facts. If those facts are linked up with Shrub, he's toast. Bush claimed (even after his record became apparent) that his service was impeccable, beyond reproach. If it turns out that the president is a Texas-sized liar, he could have a big problem. The Swift Boat stuff has passed; we probably should get into something that can hurt President aWol big time.

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Let's face it?

Fuck off!

[luaneryder]

42. Yep

Every time a post has "lets face it" it pretty much lets the cat out of the bag.

[the Kelly Gang]

18. what are you talking about ???..wrong on every point

[the Kelly Gang]

19. this post shows how scared they are..keep it up until it sinks in

just what a lying skunk Bush is.

[Ms. Clio]

21. It's really quite amazing--a constant, coordinated (?) effort

I have rarely seen this level of trolling and right wing disrupting on any other issue, except perhaps the Iraq war.

[w4rma]

20. Stop embarassing "us" by acting like a wimp. (nt)

[2Design]

22. I hope you enjoy your stay :)

[Ms. Clio]

23. Already gone, and very soon to be forgotten

[Mudcat]

24. You confused Burkett with Heldt...

A few conspiracy theorists are forwarding the idea that Heldt, a real mental patient, forged the CBS docs. A few more have confused the story on Heldt with Burkett, and there you go: a new rumor fresh from the mill.

[Carolab]

27. So nice of you

to stop by, FREEPER

[TruthIsAll]

29. Two.post.obvious.troll.

tia

[fearnobush]

30. Swift boat liars have not passed, they released another ad today.

They started this war. It will continue no matter what the Royal Republican media says. Even if it hurts Kerry, the truth on your AWOL boy will be exposed, drived and pounded. To hell with the CBS doc's it's the official Bu$hhouse doc's that are most damaging.

[Mr_Spock]

31. Ewww - what a creepy disruptor he was.

Damn freepers - go away - I thought you guys have like a million point lead in the polls - what the heck are you worried about???

[punpirate]

35. Former mental patient?

You might want to explain that remark in a bit more depth.

And, to date, the memos have not been proven forgeries--there have been many assertions that they are, but nothing constituting proof. These documents can be reproduced on an IBM Executive Model D, of which the Guard had quite a few.

Beyond that, there's someone on the record as saying that the substance of the memos is true.

Now, how about some factual backup?

[Lerkfish]

41. welcome to DU!

enjoy your visit! :hi:

[MasonJar]

10. I am wondering if he doesn't have the originals )from our of the waste-

basket. That would be awesome.

[n2mark]

25. take another look

I stand on my belief, CBS has the originals, hopefully in a very strong safe someplace. Return to Wed. video, read body language and read between the lines, and watch facial expressions. This lady reminds me of my mother who was the same age before she died, she was smart, nothing passed her by, and she never forgot. There was always a message behind her words. I just hope CBS has her hidden some place because she is the key! I wouldn't be surprised if she has the memos that she typed. She appeared to be very shrewed. She was also very confident as was Rather. They are smoking the WH out. This depends how much Killian trusted her. Here, I am stretching, he may have told her to take care of these original documents. I just found it interesting she flew to CBS to appear to say the documents were probably fake but the contents were true.

There were many times I didn't come down on an employee, I would give them enough leveraage to let them hang themselves. They usually did.

Why is the WH running scarred?

I've not given up on Rather, he is too smart and too professional. He has been in the business too long.

If Rather gives up it is because of deadly threats.

[Mr_Spock]

34. Interesting - I hope there is more to it like you say - I guess we'll find

out!

[poppabear36]

37. I got that sense too...

Rather appeared very confident in that interview. He gets a gleam in his eye when he has a trump card!

[My Pet Goat]

26. Ya think?

Hey WP, ya think if Burkett had the real, hot items in in hands (the authentic memos), then the writing in these very significant memos might influence his writing style online? Or does it have to be the other way around, where his writing style influences what he wrote in the "forged" memos?

Let me guess, the latter of course because the WP wants to appear sleuthy on this one, even though the first case is just as damn likely as the latter. :mad:

[JohnnyCougar]

33. Burkett wanted the DNC to use dirty tricks, and they refused..

So he was doing it himself. I'll bet he has the real memmos, and released the fake ones first...kind of like beating the grass to startle the snakes. Now that the forgery claims are out, the Republicans have already used their "forgery" card. Plus, there has been a big stink made over this. The story is huge, and it's the Republicans' doing. The table is set for him releasing the REAL documents. Now, the media absolutely cannot bury the story. Any claims about the new set of memmos being fake will have no merit. And many Republicans will be caught with their pants down. Buckhead will be nationally exposed for the evil shrew he is. All the Republicans calling for a congressional inquiry will look like morons.

I have a few reasons to back up my hunch:

1. If the memmos are forgeries, whoever forged them knew what the real ones were like. They are accurate in content, and can be backed up by Mrs. Knox's testimony. If Burkett was the source, he has probably seen or has the real ones. And he's not stupid enough to believe that faxed memmos would hold up to the scrutiny of the media and the BFEE. Neither he nor Dan Rather would break the story based on such thin evidence. They know what they're up against.

2. Pickles Bush said they are PROBABLY not real. If she knew the content was false, she would have said DEFINITLEY not. And if Rove knew that all the memmos have been destroyed, the would have had her say DEFINITELY not. But they were never sure that ALL the memmos were destroyed.

3. If Rather didn't have another card up his sleeve, he would have retracted the story already. If he knows there is nothing more to go on, he and CBS would have saved face already. Top managment would have been IRATE. I don't see that happening at CBS. Just some fellow reporters are questioning it.

What are people's thoughts on this theory?

[TheWebHead]

36. I think it's crazy

why would he put out forged documents and destroy his credibility, and have him up for criminal charges? Mrs. * said probably because how is she supposed to know what Killian wrote in his private files? I'm not happy with Burkett or Rather for that matter, Burkett is a motherfu**ing bastard who is damaging the party while Rather is also damaging us though more so himself by acting so stubbornly on an issue that wouldn't have been such an issue if he just would have swallowed his pride. Even if Burkett is a lone criminal here, the right wing media will paint it with a broad brush, and those not closely paying attention to the news will buy off on it.

[JohnnyCougar]

38. his credibility will be restored

when he exposes the real memos and is heralded for out-tricking the trickster.

[punpirate]

39. Quite a bunch of assumptions....

You're "not happy" with news people trying to dig up the news?

Burkett is "damaging" the party? In what way? You've already tried and convicted him, based on smears from the right wing?

You think that Burkett may be the "lone criminal here?" That's quite a statement.

Here's an alternate view that's just as plausible as the guilt you assert. Killian typed the memos himself, just for his CYA file. That would explain why Knox never saw them. When forced to verify his orders to Bush to appear so that Denver could write the official orders for Bush's termination from flight status (after all, those are signed by a general), Killian pulls his private memos and has them inserted in Bush's official file.

Twenty-five years later, Bill Burkett overhears a conversation he shouldn't have and finds himself between a rock and a hard place--he hears something he knows he should report, but he'll get his ass handed to him by the governor of Texas, George W. Bush, if he does. So, he does a little dumpster diving just to protect himself.

People talk, and talk about him knowing about Bush's records, so he gets shipped off to Panama, wandering around the jungle until he catches some disease. When he comes back sick, vindictive bastards that they are, they don't allow him military treatment, hoping he'll expire and stop being a problem.

And, now, he's not only pissed, but righteous, as well.

And does something the DNC won't do on their own--gives supporting evidence to the record that Bush has been consistently lying about his ANG record. The right-wing machine whirls into action, asserting that the documents have been faked. Then, it's only a matter of time before the fax machine is located, and it's in his territory--so, the right wing then declares Burkett to be a forger of official records, even though no forgery has been proven.

Are you getting the drift here? You're buying into the spin. What did Ms. Knox say? "Bush didn't believe the rules applied to him." Nearly four years of him as president confirms that. This asshole has started two wars for his own purposes, killed tens of thousands of people, including many of our own, and you're saying that Burkett is the "lone criminal?"

Son, you've simply got to stop watching cable news.

[WatchWhatISay]

40. This sounds like Burkett to me

I think you are right on the dubloons, mate.