Attacks disillusion Marines

[DoYouEverWonder]

September 19, 2004

RAMADI, Iraq ? Marine Cpl. Travis Friedrichsen, a sandy-haired 21-year-old from Denison, Iowa, used to take Tootsie Rolls and lollipops out of care packages from home and give them to Iraqi children. Not anymore.

"My whole opinion of the people here has changed. There aren't any good people," said Friedrichsen, who says his first instinct now is to scan even youngsters' hands for weapons.

The subtle hostility extends to Iraqi adults, evidence some U.S. troops have second thoughts about their role here.

"We're out here giving our lives for these people," said Sgt. Jesse Jordan, 25, of Grove Hill, Ala. "You'd think they'd show some gratitude. Instead, they don't seem to care."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002039922_iraqattitude19.html


Maybe someone needs to sell this fellow a clue. When your government bombs a civilian population, raids their homes, arrest their men just because they look suspicous, and then beat and humiliate them while they are in jail, maybe they have a good reason not to like you anymore?

[bemildred]

1. This is what happens when you drink the KoolAid. nt

[Cha]

2. These poor fucked up brainwashed bushbots..

that Marine Cpl. Travis Friedrichsen words said it all!

[AP]

3. So Iraqis don't want to give up their sovereignty in exchange for candy?

I'll have to make a note of that.

[LibertyorDeath]

5. LOL

Go Figure

[Rose Siding]

10. Hard to believe this compelling "wave tactic" didn't work

Marines were ordered to show friendliness through "wave tactics," including waving at people on the street.

[Judi Lynn]

26. There's one wave which would be a real crowd pleaser

It would look like this!



Hasta la vista!

Get them on those planes and let them wave "bye-bye" as they head on home. I'll bet they'd be dancing in the streets, just as Wolfowitz or Pearl predicted.

[jcappy]

20. perfect!!! (no text)

[Conservativesux]

31. I give up my freedom for a tootsie roll....

Not!!!

Bush-Out 2004

[izzie]

4. Wonder what this young man would do if Denison, Iowa was run by China?

I guess be happy his young brother had the candy and thank the head guy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

9. I wonder...

how our politicians would take to the idea of their own positions and roles in government being outsourced, at the command of some foreign power, in favour of some of its own "brightest and best", or their appointees.

[The Night Owl]

6. Why do the Marines hate freedom? (NT)

[xchrom]

7. oh brother

:eyes: :freak: :wtf: :crazy: :dunce: :wow:

[JohnyCanuck]

8. Travis needs to get a clue.

From a recent interview with Canadian war reporter Scott Taylor recently returned to Canada after being held captive in Iraq.


ST: When I saw the level of organization and apparent troop numbers, and how everyone is prepared to die – these guys aren't bullshitting. All the stuff we were told before the war about how the Ba'athists would all gladly die for Saddam, well that obviously didn't turn out to be the case. But these guys, these fundamentalists, are fighting to die. This is a very potent weapon.

Worse, the American invasion has actually created this terrorism because it substantiated over time all the ugliest scenarios that the radical clerics were warning about. People being crushed by tanks, U.S. soldiers breaking down doors, violating the sanctity of the home, abusing civilians, etc., seeing all this go down has an effect. And so the strong anti-American attitude of the clerics started to seem justified to previously disinterested local people by events on the ground, and you have religion emerge as the single cause capable of uniting members of ethnic groups who'd previously been fighting only one another.

<snip>

CD: You really can't fight against that, can you.

ST: Not for an army like the American one, whose soldiers are fighting to live. And the worst thing for the U.S. is that their heavy-handed tactics have radicalized the population, so that local Turkmen guys who previously had no strong religious fervor are now willing to die as martyrs. Unlike what the Pentagon is saying, I saw no foreign fighters there. When we were imprisoned, we were housed by local people, in their own homes. Their mothers and wives were doing the cooking and exhorting their sons to go out and die as martyrs. It's hopeless for the U.S.

www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=3606

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. But that is exactly what the Neocons and Bu$hCo want

Endless war and the cannon fodder to keep it going.

[amber dog democrat]

17. Makes no difference if they squander 1 life or a million

but eventually the American people are going to put a stop to it.
I don't know how long it will be until this happens.

Like Vietman, the decision will be forced after a level of outrage gives them no choice.

In the meantime, what further chaos will happen in the Middle East?

[Comadreja]

19. The danger is

that before the people get outraged enough, Iraqis or some other group will strike here again, and more citizens will want revenge. I think this is what Team Bush wants. They may even engineer it.

[amber dog democrat]

21. what enrages me is that we would give them a 2nd chance

to idly sit still while another 9/11 happens on THEIR watch.

They failed to protect us the first time. Why do they deserve another chance? They were NOT actually elected the first time were they?

I don't know what will happen, but I wonder if Cheney and his Utopian Neocon pals would not set something like this in motion. My favorite fantasy is to see them in the dock in Nuremburg, ( The Hague today ). facing life sentences with no parole.

[Conservativesux]

54. Nope and they...

wont be duly elected this time either.

Get ready for another snatch and grab job by Bushco in Florida.

These corporate creeps have no morals at all!!!

[Eloriel]

22. Also be sure to read Scott's own account, which is linked to

in the above article. Betweeen the two, it paints a picture tht IMO would be hard to get from straight reporting type articles.

[usgrant7]

29. A 43 year old future soldier - again.

As a former MP officer (US Army 2LT) I couldn't help but comment here:

1. Once you put men with arms into a theater of war, you create an atmosphere of life or death distrust.
2. This life or death distrust, causes even the most timid among us to be quite brutal.
3. This brutality (common in group-think), if left unchecked by leadership and civility, seeks to protect itself by marginalizing all threat sources.
4. These marginalizations become increasingly aggressive as the civilian population around this war continue to look just like insurgent combatants.
5. Insurgent combatants who engage in this type of war don't care if their own countrymen die as a result of their conscious decision to dress and act like the civilians.

Who among us should be shocked? Lets make this debate about substance. Lets be critical of a war gridlocked. Lets ensure that we have as many answers as we do criticisms.

The military solution to this war is to pull out and allow them to concentrate on each other. The way the US did, the Brits did, the Soviets did, and all other nations anxious to determine their own course.

I am for a deliberate disengagement. We have started a process within Iraq that will eventually settle itself out. If they don't want us there, we should oblige them and deliver them to their own devices. If they want a free society, then let them earn it. If they are unworthy, then they should endure the process of a continued flawed system.

We showed them that we will reach out and touch them if they do anything stupid. Now let them determine their own destiny.

David
Rochester, NY

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

48. I would agree with you if

we hadn't gone in there and made such a mess of the whole place.

My mother always taught me to clean up my own messes. Then if the Iraqis want to continue to kill each, that's their choice.


BTW: Welcome to DU. I hope you like it here? :hi:

[JohnyCanuck]

51. Here's one you reached out and touched real good

That'll show'em not to mess with Uncle Sam if they know what's good for them.

[Conservativesux]

57. Join the the Few, the Proud, the Marines.....

so you can kill innocent little Iraqi girls. :(

[kskiska]

12. Seems that these guys are left to figure this out for themselves

Apparently, their commanding officers are still handing out the Kool-Aid and aren't leveling with them, telling them they'll be welcomed with open arms by the Iraqis.

[Redleg]

14. Exactly right. Give the kid a break.

These young troops don't have the same access to news as we do here. Their commanders are not levelling with them and their commander in chief is not telling the truth.

It is sad to see our troops put into such a fucked-up situation by their "superiors." Let's get them out of there.

[annabanana]

44. thank you Redleg

This kid was thrown in with hardly any training to a completely out of control situation and lied to. WE MUST NOT LET THE BLAME FALL ON THEM

[natrat]

13. all i can think of

is -why arent the skank twins or congressional sons and daughters going over there. I'm sure with that prospect there would have been a bit more sober thought initially.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. It made the difference for President Johnson

when he had to send his pregnant daughter's husband off to Vietnam, he saw things in whole new light.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Welcome to Nam

this laso happened at Nam

Our troops usually give cancdy to kids, has happened since oh WW I... but when this happens, (last time was Nam), you know we are in real trouble

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

18. I wonder what names they're calling all of them

You're right. This is just like Vietnam. What are they calling ALL of these people, including the children, that would be similar to gooks, zipperheads, slopes, dinks, or slants? You just know when the cameras are turned off you must be hearing some very ugly and dehumanizing language being directed at the Iraqi people as a whole by our soldiers, born of fear, frustration, fatigue, and anger.

[Cleopatra2a]

23. They call them Hajis

Remember Johnny Quest? That was the name of his Indian sidekick.

[saigon68]

42. They call them "SAND NIGGERS"

The white troops do

[Conservativesux]

53. Its all about dehumanising the the enemy so that its easy....

to kill a whole bunch of them.

Its too bad for the troops that the Sand N*****r's keep shooting back !!

Doh!!

I guess they dont like our troops invading thier land or something like that.

[leftchick]

24. Let me Tell You All about My Nephew the New Marine....

Nice kid, 18 years young and very bright. He was recruited in the southwest US. His Mom (my sister) and Father are losers. This kid went in because he did not have a lot of options in his life. Perfect recuiter material! He has never been violent at all. I saw him this past summer at a family reunion right after he left Basic. I was absolutely shocked at his new attutide on life and the future. All he could talk about were weapons and how he WANTED to go to Iraq and kill a LOT of ragheads. I could not get my little boys away from him fast enough.

So is that what they teach them in Basic training? Kill the ragheads?!? I thought their mission was win hearts and minds!
I thought we were bringing them Freedom and democracy!

We bring them Death... :puke:

[Conservativesux]

32. Shazam, shazam, you mean that...

they still teach Marines to kill these days?

Too bad we let the (p)Resident of the WH send them to Iraq

For shame !!!

[leftchick]

36. If you read you would know that.....

the "mission" for the Marines into Fallujah and the surrounding areas was to be for "winning hearts and minds". I know what the traditional training of leathernecks is. They have been saying these guys are going to be all hearts and flowers towards innocent Iraqis. Yet more lies......

[Swamp Rat]

59. ZEUS! That sounds like my family in New Mexico!

My poor cousin is being sent on his second tour. :cry:

[gottaB]

25. Shoot first and ask questions later

"We're not taking any chances: Shoot first and ask questions later," said Lance Cpl. David Goward, 26, a machine gunner from Cloquet, Minn. "We're a lot more dangerous now. I'm not going home in a body bag, and neither is the person next to me."

A logical extension of the administration's national security policy. It should be noted that key authors of this policy are ignorant cowards who never missed an opportunity to avoid combat service.

[Conservativesux]

33. This is pretty much how the Police operate in the US....

witness the Diallo case and others. If in doubt, yell "gun" and start shooting :(

Wouldnt want to come home in a body bag. Easier to shoot and innocent man to death, dontya know ?

[saigon68]

41. A lot of these guys will become cops

You will then see them discipline guys like Rodney King.

Rodney King A/K/A "The Pinata" at the Police Lunch Break.

The pinata has the ability to turn a dull party into "party maker"

Participants are blindfolded, spun around several times to lose their orientation, and then given a stick and requested to hit the pinata

The police however were never blind folded or spun around--

THEY SIMPLY BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF RODNEY.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. Dumber than bat guano.

[deadparrot]

28. This is what happens when you take poor, uneducated young people

brainwash them with the utter crap which is this administration's rhetoric, and throw them into this situation.

I feel so sorry for these people. They don't belong in Iraq.

[Wright Patman]

30. I'm tempted to say

I'd rather have that guy deployed indefinitely to Iraq than to have him move in next door to me. Serial killers are bad for the neighborhood.

Who knows when this guy is going to have a PTSD pschotic break and run through a neighborhood wiping out the "ragheads" he still sees in his fevered, deluded mind?

[Conservativesux]

35. Another good reason to keep the ban on assualt weapons...

these wacked out ex-GI's can do enough damage with a saturday nite special, much less an AK-47

[deadparrot]

37. But it isn't his fault.

Sure, returning combat vets could be psychologically damaged from their experience. They've seen awful things. It happened after Viet Nam, it could definitely happen now. In fact, it already has.

But it isn't their fault. A good portion of our military bends over backwards catering to lower-income, poorly educated young people, promising to pay for their college education and trumpeting "opportunities" to get ahead. It's just not true. Lack of education makes it much easier for these men and women to fall in line with this administration's plans. I have a good friend whose boyfriend will almost certainly be going to Iraq if * is re-selected.

There's a reason these people sound so delusional: they don't know any better. They haven't been exposed to higher levels of thought and reason beyond what the military teaches.

Say what you will about * and his cronies, but don't knock these people. They're just the ones putting their necks on the line for a lie.

[Rabelais]

34. Marines aren;t known for their intellect

otherwise they would have joined the Air Force.

[saigon68]

39. There aren't any good people," said Friedrichsen

With this kind of an attitude he will feel no remorse, when he KILLS A FEW RAG HEADS---That way he can even smoke anyone he dislikes.

[knowbody0]

40. disillusion

the day these puppies realize how "disposable" they are the rage inside renders them no longer human. look at the legacy of vietnam

[Earth_First]

43. "Our soldiers will be met with flowers and candy"

Amazing. We never were met with those flowers and candy. Seems as though we will never be 'welcomed' by the Iraqis, can we blame them?

Sigh...

[saigon68]

50. We were "WELCOMED" by Ahmed Chalabi and his thugs

Remember them pulling down the statue all 200 of them, and five marine armored vehicles. When Chalabi fell out of favor there was no one else who would deal with us at all


except the ex-CIA Puppet and informer who we made president

[biftonnorton]

45. Giving Lives For Iraqis Or Haliburton?

And the shame of it all is that we collectively don't have the stomach to do what's needed to put down the insurgency and control the future of Iraq. Bush Sr. didn't remove Saddam b/c Saddam was controlling those asshat fundies. Too bad the way he controlled the fundamentalists didn't jibe with our cultural ideals, and eventually we used that to justify invasion after the WMDs couldn't be found. Now AQ and their philosophical adherents are blowing us up, beheading us, and shooting us, eroding our strength. I wish we'd just unleash hell or pull out. Preferably pull out and admit we're not willing to nuke and pave, then leave these people the frick alone!

[Disturbed]

46. The people in Iraq.

They are in the way of the Multi-Natls and the oil distribution.
For some unknown reason most Iraqis aren't overjoyed with being colonized again. They have been liberated from Saddam and his Regime but now the US insists that they submit to US domination. After 12 years of UN sanctions, the invasion and over a year of brutal Occupation the Iraqis who don't want to work for the US are painted as terrorists.

The US will NOT leave. Bombing Iraq into submission is the new plan.

[progressivebydesign]

47. I get a little testy when they kill thousands of my fellow countrymen..

.. but hey, that's just me! The people really weren't intersted in OUR brand of democracy. They said very often, "we wanted Saddam gone, but NOT like this!". If we were so intent on removing Saddam, we could have.. without killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and destroying the cities in Iraq. This war, in which we have tragically lost over 1,000 of our troops, and seen life-altering injuries to thousands more... is the result of a total FUBAR policy, or lack of any plan. The war is out of control, and Bush knows it... the American public needs to know it, and the troops need to know it. Bush thought this was going to be a few bombs and we're the loved liberators.. but he has botched this terribly. Bush TRULY believed that the MISSION was ACCOMPLISHED, he was wrong... terribly wrong. The war was managed by Rumsfeld, who has WHAT kind of military experience? None.

[number6]

49. Our pResident needs one too ....

"Maybe someone needs to sell this fellow a clue"

[Conservativesux]

56. Or a brain !! (nt)

[JSJ]

52. anyone still think the troops are voting for kerry in large numbers? nt

[Conservativesux]

55. Who said that...

they will be allowed to vote while overseas?

Or that the election wont be stolen by Bushco again?

[JSJ]

58. there's been a lot of yimyam, here, that the troops support kerry...

...just because Bush has sent so many of their fellows to their deaths. I say their bigotry and greed (and ignorance) supercede even that.