NASA rushes plan to send humans to moon, Mars, despite doubts among scient

[RedEarth]

WASHINGTON - NASA (news - web sites) is racing to carry out President Bush (news - web sites)'s costly vision of sending humans back to the moon and then on to Mars - despite the federal budget squeeze and doubts in Congress and the scientific community about the plan's wisdom.

Even some of the project's allies are balking at its price tag and headlong pace.


NASA is "trying to do too much at once," said Rep. Sherwood Boehlert (news, bio, voting record), R-N.Y., chairman of the House Science Committee, a strong supporter of the space agency. He protested that NASA is "barreling ahead" even though Congress "has never endorsed - in fact, never even discussed - the vision."


"I think NASA is headed for a potential train wreck," warned Rep. Bart Gordon (news, bio, voting record), D-Tenn., the committee's senior Democrat, who worried that the Moon-Mars plan is gobbling up funds for other scientific ventures.


Even some space agency officials are expressing concern. The cost and complexities of the Moon-Mars project make this "a time for sobering up," Michael Meyer, NASA's lead scientist for Mars exploration, told a committee of the National Academy of Sciences (news - web sites) earlier this month.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2270&u=/krwashbureau/20050221/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_sci_moonmars_wa&printer=1

[Goldmund]

1. How many Cassinis would they be able to launch...

...for the price of sticking a flag on the damn Moon?

[struggle4progress]

17. Exactly.

[ixion]

2. I'm all for increasing space exploration and travel

but that would be in the context of global diplomacy and cooperation, not some 'send a neocon fundie to the moon and mars' projects. :eyes:

First and foremost, the money for this should come from that ill-conceived, ill-fated Missle Defense Sheild. ;-)

[SaveElmer]

3. I agree with Bush on this one

And it is giving me a rash!

Although I think they could have found a way to save Hubble...It's about time we got back to the human exploration.

And the arguments about the budget are bogus...the Pentagon spends in a week what NASA gets for the entire year.

I do think we should proceed in partnership with Russia and ESA on this...

[tridim]

5. Totally agree that space exploration needs to be a world effort

It's not proactical to try to go it alone. Unfortunately in Bushworld it'll never happen.

[PATRICK]

6. It's another Bush lie

Think soldiers in space. This is the ONLY goal, via Cheney, for manned spaced vehicles in the Bush anti-president vision.

This is not the time to support a Bush objective. I can't think of any in fact that he has not mortally perverted.

It's like giving Hitler nuclear power because of all the great progressive advances.

Better to cocoon this enthusiasm before Bush drags this great human goal down into the garbage dump with everything else. Sure accommodations with Pentagon skulduggery have always field and dominated the great leaps forward into space, but the present sponsorship is unvarnished evil and will continue to be in the wrong hands of Bushco.

[FormerDittoHead]

4. The offshoots of space...

Why send people to Mars and not just continue with robotics?

Sending people will pour billions into developing life support systems that will clean and recycle air and water in closed environments.

This technology, once invented at our expense, will become the backbone of a new big business economic sector selling whole-home air and water purifiers when breathing the air outside and drinking the water straight from the tap eventually becomes hazardous to our health, and walking to our cars in the summer will require air tanks and protective clothing.

[hatrack]

18. Kind of like Tang for survivalists!

I like the way you think! :hi:

[tom_paine]

7. Sounds like Imperial Amerika is gearing up for a Sviet-style space program

Complete with unrealistic goals, underfunded mission scrubs, and ouright disasters (which, naturally will be kept from the Imperial Subjects of Amerika because the news would delight National Enemies).

The simple fact of the matter is: A Totalitarian Nation can never truly attain intra-solar manned spaceflight because it lacks the Ethics and Scientific Inquiry of the Free World to do it.

As in the Soviet Union, PARTY "Reality" will always take precedence over objective scientific observation (it's already begun here at home in the Empire) with predictably disasterous results.

And if some astronauts die, their sacrifice for The Emperor will be noted, even though it cannot be publicized or it will look bad for THE PARTY.

[SaveElmer]

8. I wouldn't look down my nose at the Russians too quickly

The fact is they have the only truly reliable human to orbit capability right now. After they lost the moon race they have been concentrating on living and working in space...and have been pretty successful. There are flaws in their program no doubt, but we could learn alot from the Russian Space program

[tom_paine]

12. You are correct, I was referring to their moon efforts in the 60s and 70s

If you study the records (such as they are) I believe you will find a litany of failure of extra-planetary ventures. Not total failure, of course, but something like what Amerika is headed for now.

I agree with your assessment of the current Russian Space Program and their compiled data on living and working in space long-term is valuable.

[SaveElmer]

13. They weren't that concerned about safety then

I agree, but they did have some notable successes during that time - first in space of course, first space walk, first to send an unmanned spacecraft around the moon (I think), and they did land a spacecraft on and snapped the only surface pictures of Venus.

While I don't trust Bush as far as I can throw him, the Democrats have shown no leadership on manned space flight which I think is a mistake...particularly because the manned moon missions were Kennedy's dream.

[tom_paine]

14. On that we can agree, although you made my point for me

Yes, Totalitarian Nations like Communist Russia or Imperial Amerika have the same disregard for safety in a larger sense, because each nation views its Subjects as captive, essentially, and tools of the Rulers, be they Right-Wing as in Amerika or Left-Wing as in the old SU.

[EC]

9. This is all about Haliburton's report

of possible oil and other valuble minerals on the moon and mars.........

[yardwork]

20. I agree. Note recent news articles about possible water on Mars

This is all about developing new sources of resources for extraction corporations. That's always been bushco's primary objective, anyway.

Drilling and mining for a profit.

[Julius Civitatus]

10. MARS, BITCHES!

:)

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[old blue]

15. "... other scientific ventures. "

"...who worried that the Moon-Mars plan is gobbling up funds for other scientific ventures. "

Remove the word "other."

[Rosco T.]

16. There are things on the Moon, Mars and other places that don't just ADD UP

We should have been back in space 20 years ago, if we had, by now would would have long since perfected Fuel Cell technology and higher efficency solar. Most of the electronic breakthru have come out of the space programs...

but there are things out there that don't add up..

like this little 'oddity' on Mars..



600 feet arcoss and several miles long. A transparant tube with ribs...

and, altho I don't agree with everything on the site, this guy has found some pretty amazing things in the mars/moon pictures over the years...

check out these from Cassini's encounter with Iapetus, the pictures look strangely familar :D

http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon1.htm
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon2.htm
http://www.enterprisemission.com/moon3.htm

[Gasping4Truth]

19. These are dunes

on the bottom of a canyon.

Check out:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/glassworm.html
for a good explanation