Marine's wife paints portrait of US troops out of control in Haditha

[cal04]

· Unit accused of abusing drugs and alcohol
· Officers relieved of duty after killing of 24 Iraqis

The marine unit involved in the killing of Iraqi civilians in Haditha last November had suffered a "total breakdown" in discipline and had drug and alcohol problems, according to the wife of one of the battalion's staff sergeants. The allegations in Newsweek magazine contribute to an ever more disturbing portrait of embattled marines under high stress, some on their third tour of duty after ferocious door-to-door fighting in the Sunni insurgent strongholds of Falluja and Haditha.

The wife of the unnamed staff sergeant claimed there had been a "total breakdown" in the unit's discipline after it was pulled out of Falluja in early 2005. "There were problems in Kilo company with drugs, alcohol, hazing , you name it," she said. "I think it's more than possible that these guys were totally tweaked out on speed or something when they shot those civilians in Haditha."

The troops in Iraq have been ordered to take refresher courses on battlefield ethics, but a growing body of evidence from Haditha suggests the strain of repeated deployments in Iraq is beginning to unravel the cohesion and discipline of the combat troops. "We are in trouble in Iraq," Barry McCaffrey, a retired army general who played a leading role in the Iraq war, told Time magazine. "Our forces can't sustain this pace, and I'm afraid the American people are walking away from this war."

The Newsweek account described a gung-ho battalion that had staged a chariot race, complete with captured horses, togas and heavy metal music, before the battle for Falluja in late 2004. The marines were given loose rules of engagement in the vicious urban warfare that followed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1790500,00.html

[drdtroit]

1. We are F*CK*D!

:patriot: :cry:

[PuraVidaDreamin]

2. sure seems that way

[Poll_Blind]

3. OMG, those guys are THESE guys? (SEE INSIDE!)

PB

[WatchWhatISay]

4. Kilo Comapny?

Is that really their name?
Is that commonly known?

[Tin Man]

12. It's phonetic alphabet - Alpha, Bravo, Charlie....Kilo, Lima, etc

Kilo is military/radio-speak for the letter K.

[WatchWhatISay]

49. I didn't know that, thanks for educating me

glad to know it isnt a drug reference

[acmavm]

5. Americans are 'walking away from the war'? Not really, some of us

were never in lockstep with the neocons warmongers, and a whole group of the ones that were aren't walking, they're running as fast as the cowardly little lets will carry them. They were comfy here, happy as clams as long as they could believe the propaganda that we were 'winning'. Now that their little bubble has popped, they can't run fast enough. Hell, they (or their damn kids) might have to go fight in their war.

[flyarm]

13. first off the majority of americans did not support this war to begin with

[marken]

6. This is total crap!

First off, yes, Kilo Company is the real name. I take what this supposed marine's wife statement as pure crap. My family member was involved in the incident in Haditha and I am beyond insulted that a statement was made like that! My family member wasn't and isn't some kind of drug user! Marine's wife...feel sorry for the marine who's wife this is who is obviously unsupportive of her husband. I am so fed up hearing about the crap! I have read people would like to line up all the marines involved and have them executed by firing squad. Real nice to hear these people without knowing both sides of the story, want my family member dead. Were any of us, including myself, there?! Was Time magazine, Newsweek, etc. there at the exact moment of the Haditha incident? Did they witness it? Did any of us?! Why are we so quick to point the finger? Don't any of us realize lots of things have happened in the world involving the military that we still, to this day, have no answers for?! People are entitled to their opinion but it seems lots are not looking at it in a perspective if one of their family members were involved. This event has upset my family to no end. My family member can't even defend the actions of that day. My family has been hounded by the media. The media is trying to dig up dirt on my family member as well as the rest of the family. Let them waste their time. Attacking some of our own with words without knowing all the facts, which sorry to say, none of us will ever know, is disgusting!! I sympathize with the others going through the same thing that my family is. People making judgment calls about my family member's character without knowing that person as I do is frustrating, hurtful and it really upsets me. The military went over to Iraq to weed out the bad amongst the innocent. The military also went over there to try and make it a better place for these people. Now, not only are some of those people slapping the military in the face, but some of us Americans are doing the same thing! Shame on them and shame on us!

[Drum]

7. Uh-huh.....

[ThoughtCriminal]

8. I feel worse for the victims and their families

>>"Was Time magazine, Newsweek, etc. there at the exact moment of the Haditha incident?"

A big part of the problem is that they were not. If the media had been there, perhaps the horrible actions would have been prevented, or at least, the whitewash cover-up would have been exposed much earlier.

Sticking our heads in the sand in the name of "Support our troops" is not only going to lead to more humiliations, it has already destroyed whatever hope the mission ever had.

[motocicleta]

9. So did your family member dispute what is being reported?

None of us did witness it, but since I am now having a conversation with someone who is related to someone who did, I have a better chance of learning the truth than I ever did before. It might be a good time for you to let us know what your family member says really happened if it is not the way we are being told by the media.

[marken]

27. Regarding dispute

At this time, none of the marines involved are allowed to speak, which to me, makes them look really bad. :-(

[marken]

39. If only...

My family member right now is not able to talk to anyone, minus authorities and spouse, about the issue per advice from lawyer. Unfortunately, I think when I find out, if I do find out the true facts, you will know as well. I just want the truth like anyone else. I am waiting to hear what the Marines involved say. I hope they are allowed to say something soon. The longer they wait, the more the people are going to just assume guilt.

[Mr_Spock]

10. This is what happens when the CIC is an incompetent boob.

You know it and I know it.

Your family would not be suffering like this if it was not for these losers like Rummy, Rice and most of all the CIC himself - AWOL Bush

[WatchWhatISay]

11. Sorry, but joining the military doesn't absolve one

of the responsibility to be a decent human being. I doensn't give one the right to kill women and children for no reason, or even men of military age for that matter. I have heard some say that this is what happens as a result of the frustration of war. As if that excuses it. If that is so, then they make a solid argument against any war, ever. Isn't this sort of behavior what we went over there to get rid of (when Saddam did it).

You can't train people to be killers, and then just expect them to stop on cue.

And to say that we don't have all the facts - maybe not, but the picture is getting pretty clear.

[Tin Man]

14. Welcome to DU.

...sorry about the circumstances under which we meet.

[Tarheel_Dem]

15. sorry about your "alleged" family member, but.....

nowhere in your entire rant did you offer sympathies for the victims of this massacre. you feel sorry for your family member, your family, and the other military families involved, but does that empathy extend to the innocents who were slain? i'm just saying....

[Critters2]

22. Good point

The troops are there to help the Iraqi people, or so the propaganda is being catapulted. Killing people is a strange kind of help. Killing them and feeling no remorse is just sick.

[marken]

28. Not Alleged

I am not looking for grand attention. You did bring up a valid point though. I stand corrected. I in no way support killing the innocent in any way shape or manner. It's just things have been very frustrating and I am feeling a lot of mixed emotions about the incident. I do apologize for sounding as if I am an uncaring person, that isn't me at all. I've just been upset, confused and worried for my family member which anyone would feel if they had a family member involved.

[Tarheel_Dem]

33. well it sounds as if you've had a few moments...

to reflect. And if it's true that you indeed have a family member caught up in this horrific mess, then my sympathies truly do go out to you and everyone this abomination has touched. While I can only take you at your word that your family has been personally touched by this, I cannot in my heart find any justification for the taking of innocent life.

Your initial post directed anger at the iraqi people, you know the people we "liberated" from a murderous dictator? I think your anger, albeit righteous anger, is simply misdirected. This abomination started and stops right at the White House doorsteps.

[marken]

38. Actually

My anger was directed towards those we are trying to help and people here making judgment calls without all the facts. I can only hope my family member can soon speak in their defense and all the facts are out in the open. I don't question the massacre. There is no way to say it didn't happen. Men, women and children were killed. None, absolutely none of that should have happened. The act was inexcusable, unforgiving and disgusting! There aren't enough words to describe how horrible that was. What I am questioning is why it happened? Was it ordered by higher ups? Did someone make a really huge, horrible mistake? What purpose did this serve? Was there another motive that the public is not aware of? I, like everyone else, for the life of me, can't understand why children were involved. Children are no threat. I want answers for what happened. I just refuse to believe my family member would act of their own volition and just murder innocent people for no reason. Who would want to believe such a thing of a family member?

[Tarheel_Dem]

40. thanks for your heartfelt response, but....

and please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm sure Lyndie England's family said the same thing initially. As did the families of those returning servicemen who took the lives of their wives at Ft. Bragg. Yes, I would be horrified if this involved a member of my family, but the battlefield & extended deployments change people. And we won't know for a long, long time just what atrocities have occurred in our names, but I hope for your family member's sake that he/she will be vindicated. On the other hand, if he/she played a part in this fiasco, then he/she should be punished to the fullest extent of the law just as you or I would be.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

16. Who are YOU to judge whether the Marine's wife...

is supportive of him? Perhaps her idea of support is to speak the truth, rather than bury her head in the sand, so that the destruction and senseless killing - of all - will stop. And if this "family member can't even defend the actions of that day," your rant seems illogical.

Face up to reality (and I say this as someone from a military family) - many went over thinking they would improve the lives of Iraqis, but others went over for revenge. And because of the imminent threat of a mushroom cloud hitting us in 45 minutes (remember that little gem?). At least admit it.

You haven't responded to any of the posts - wheredja go? Too busy fighting off the pesky media?

[pnwmom]

19. There are two ways of reading that statement you mention

The first time I read, "can't even defend the actions of that day" I read it the same way you did -- meaning that it's indefensible.

The second time I thought maybe s/he meant "the family member has been told he can't speak to anyone about it."

[WorseBeforeBetter]

23. Good point, but the poster isn't responding as of yet...

so maybe we'll never know what s/he meant.

A quick search turned up this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2320772

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but let's just say that my BS detector went into overdrive, particularly with posts 14 and 23, and now the one in this thread. I find it hard to believe that this particular family member, who claims to be under so much duress, would magically appear on DU to post to Haditha-related threads.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. thanks for your research TWD....

looks like we have a "tag team" there. Hit & Run.

[pnwmom]

26. yeah, I guess it does seem a little convenient

but I usually give people the benefit of the doubt, as I imagine you do, too.

I don't know what that CNN quote was supposed to be getting at -- unless someone was trying to imply that the victims deserved what happened to them. But from my point of view, maybe the girl was watching through her window while the bomb was placed there. Maybe her whole family saw it happen. That doesn't mean they were responsible, obviously.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I had to say something.

[marken]

31. Raises an eyebrow

Upon hearing about the investigation, I started going online seeing what was out there regarding my family member/marines. Found more bad being said than people either supporting or staying neutral about the incident. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you try reading board after board saying things like prosecute, people outright picking your family member out and writing horrible, nasty things put marines in front of a firing squad, execute marines by other violent manners and that all the marines that day were suffering from PTSD and were hopped up on drugs that day and stay quiet about it if you were related to one of those Marines! I needed to vent and give a side that a lot can't. I have a family member involved. Does anyone here think about-What if one of my family members were involved? How would I feel? Would I still post the same opinions?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

46. Why are you torturing yourself...

by reading "board after board"? There is very little intelligent life on many of them, so I suggest that in your time of duress, just pull the plug. Most sane, rational people want a thorough investigation and are NOT judging until the facts are in (I'm pulling a Grissom here). I also think many Americans agree with what Murtha is saying - that these men and women have been put in a horrible, impossible situation and that they are starting to snap (or have been all along). What do you think war is?

You seem to have a real block up about PTSD and the alleged drug use. Do you ever stop to think of what it must be like over there -- just trying to get through the day alive? I'm not judging any military member who turns to illegal or prescription drugs to get through. And why would you judge anyone with PTSD? Do you deny that it even exists?

I'm writing this as someone who has had two family members serve in the Middle East (one in Iraq for about a year), so I am CONSTANTLY thinking about what it like.

[marken]

30. Your second thought....

This was correct. At this time, it is advisable not to speak of the event to the press. Don't ask me why not, not the lawyer defending my family member.

[marken]

29. Sigh

I would say I have a bit of a right to judge this article seeing I have a sister in law who is a Marine's wife of Kilo Company. And the other bit of the right is I know my family member and this member would in no way poison their body with drugs. Family member at this time is not allowed to speak of the event to the press and of course there is only so much they can speak to the family.

Your last comment was done in poor taste. None of this is funny and the hell this event has caused the people over there, the military and my family is certainly not funny.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

45. I see you've finally come around to...

"the hell this event has caused the people over there."

Judge not lest ye be judged. You seem to be ready to Swiftboat the wife of one of the Marines involved. Pretty curious since you, obviously, were not in Haditha and have limited information since "there is only so much they can speak to the family." Do you really think it's right to judge those desperate enough to possibly turn to drugs (illegal or prescription) to just get through the horrors of each day?

Perhaps you should direct your displeasure toward your government for creating this colossal mess and demand that it find a solution.

[flyarm]

17. i beg to differ politely..we went to iraq because we were told it was an

imminent threat to our national security..we were told there were wmd and mushroom clouds ready to hit our nation by saddam..we did not go into iraq for the reasons you stated, such as this ...

quoting you " The military went over to Iraq to weed out the bad amongst the innocent. The military also went over there to try and make it a better place for these people."

there is no where in our constitution that allows us to go to war for the reasons you stated here..

please read article 1 section 10 ..of the constitution...

we went into this war based on nothing but bold faced lies..and the lies continue to this day...please do not, in your anguish, re-write history..or facts...

we were lied into this war and anyone who gave a damn before sending these troops into this illegal war could have known about these lies before this war ever began!

if i could, you could have as well! and so could your family have...

now i am not being critical of your family member..but your facts are incorrect...

we were told that iraq had 500 tons of vx , and 500 tons of anthrax, and 100 tons of mustard gas..we were told they had nuclear capabilities and were planning on using nukes on us with some ship that never existed..

we were told they had drones..well the only thing close to that was put together with duct tape..and cardboard..

we were told there were truck with the capability of making wmd..which in fact were purchased from britian by saddam for weather balloons..

we were told by powell about the the imminent threat to our national security but 2 days later it was revealed in the british papers that powell had used a 12 yr old college students dissertation paper that he plagerized..from a college student...yes a 12 year old dissertation paper!

we did not then, nor do we now or ever have the right to attack a soverign nation for the reasons you stated!!
if your family member is held accountable for an illegal act of a war crime..this administration in toto should also be held accountable..as they have never been held accountable for any of their war crimes to date..and this entire war is a war crime ..

and you can be mad and rant..you are entitled to that..but the rest of us who did our homework and have known the truth from the get go..that this war is a war of lies..we are entitled to our anger as well, as it is our good name and our nation that has blood on all our hands because of this unjust criminal war!and we are paying dearly in more ways than i dare to post here!

i have said it from the onset..not in my name...and i damn well mean it...

and if any of our troops shot point blank innocent children and women and seniors in wheelchairs ..as has been reported ..well that is murder..you can white wash it..and you will have lots of company with this administraition in nothing but white wash in everything
they do.,.but do not expect those of us who cared enough to seek the truth to find solace for you...

we are well beyond that
now...

there is anywhere between 100,000
and 250,000 dead iraqi's..prior to this war starting, the population of iraq consisted of over 50 % of it's citizens under the age of 15...

thats alot of dead children all based on nothing but bullshit lies!

fly

[UpInArms]

48. merely an addendum in support of your post

[pnwmom]

18. We really don't know why the military was sent over there, marken, do

we? All of the reasons we were initially given -- weapons of mass destruction, they were an imminent threat to us, etc. -- have turned out to be lies. It is looking more and more likely that our real reason for attacking Iraq had more to do with money and oil than it ever did with helping people.

I can appreciate the stress your whole family must be under. I wish your family member and the rest of our troops had never been sent to Iraq. We probably can agree on that.

Welcome to DU!

[marken]

32. Nod

You are correct about the reasons we were initially given-lots of us feel deceived due to no proof. As for it being over money and oil, you could very well be right-I really don't know.

Yes, I agree-I never wanted my family member to go nor anyone else. I just wanted my family member to return back safely.

[flyarm]

42. why would anyone sit back and not question the reasons for war

prior to bush starting his war of lies...it would have saved alot of americans alot of anguish and loss of their loved ones, if more americans had done the research and their jobs as " we the people" before this war was started by the criminals in this white house..the truth was out there.. all of it... well before this war was begun..none of us would have had to worry about our troops "coming home safely" had more americans refused to take a carte blanche propaganda from this or any other adminsitration prior to sending one soldier to war based on filthy lies..!

the majority of americans were against starting this war..it was the minority of americans who did every thing they could to shut the truth up.yes everything they could creatively do..to shut up the desent..the desenters were much more informed than those who just followed like sheep!
the followers were lead like they had a ring in their noses and just went along for the ride..well now there is a price to pay for that ...

i am sorry but i have no sympathy for your family member..it is incomebant on each and every american to search for the truth and to hold our leaders accountable...

you wanted your way before the war started..well you got it toyota...we warned you..we stood up to those of you who swallowed the kool aide...you would not listen..you would not even attempt to look at the truth...

so don't cry in your kool aide now..too many innocents have died now.,..

what are you willing to do to stand up to this criminal administration..now that you know the truth??

please don't come here pissy at those who warned you..those who have worked damn hard to get the truth to the american people...against all odds and media...and a criminal administration...
get pissed at the people you should be pissed at ..the kool aide drinkers who refuse to ask questions..who refuse to ever hold the criminals in this administration accountable! who have waged an illegal war ...that is where your anger should be and must be..not at those who try, against all odds, to tell the truth..

just because the truth does not suit you or exonerate your family member does not make the truth a lie!

fly

[KyndCulture]

20. Um sorry. Don't buy your post.

You have no sympathy whatsoever for the people who are dead. You are more concerned with some "family members" reputation.

You have no reason to attack this marine's wife, none. You don't know her, and she's entitled to her opinion too.

[marken]

34. You don't need to

I could really care if you believe me or not. I know who I am and that is what's important. The purpose of my first post was to express hurt and frustration. Read some of my other posts. Judging me, due to not even knowing me, wasn't fair. I couldn't call myself a human being if I was for not caring about others who have been through something horrible. Knowing a marine wife and my family member-I can't speak for all the Marines in Kilo Company but I know my family member wasn't hopped up on drugs. It's just hard to read a Marine's wife bashing the company about drugs, hazing, etc-her husband is not the whole company and with her comments made the company look bad.

[flyarm]

43. yes i believe i will go read your 14 posts!! n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

47. Again with the denial and "bashing" accusations.

Why do you find it so difficult to accept drugs, hazing, etc. in a time of war? Hell, years ago I dated a guy in the Navy and he shared not-too-pretty pics of a hazing ritual on one of the ships - and that was during "peace time." I'm gleaning from your posts that you seem to live in some sort of yellow-ribbon fantasy world -- that these things do not occur. That your government would not lie to you. In one of your other posts you mentioned that you and many others feel deceived. I don't. I called bullshit the moment my government told me a mushroom could could hit us in 45 minutes. As someone with family in the military, don't you have a duty to question your government rather than believe everything you are told?

The wife in question is really sticking her neck out for bringing these allegations to light. Perhaps your family member would be better served if you (and others) were less concerned with "image" and opened your mind to the real problems facing our military men and women. And then worked toward resolution.

[flyarm]

51. here here!! excellent post TWriterD !!..n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

52. Thanks, Flyarm.

We haven't heard from our buddy in a while - think I'll do a quickie search to see if s/he is stirring up shit on any other threads.

[jjmalonejr]

21. Yeah, I believe every word of your post

:sarcasm:

[marken]

35. Again

You don't need to. People believing me or not has no bearing on my life and what is truly happening.

[LibertyorDeath]

24. Your post is at the best complete shit

[marken]

36. And Again

You are entitled to your own opinion.

[Canuckistanian]

37. Why would she say this?

What would give her the impression that things had gotten so fucked up?

Did she get bad information? I can't see how this would benefit her husband if she was wrong. Nobody can be pressuring her to say this.

If this is all just a huge misunderstanding on her part, she should just apologize.

Even if this did happen as she said it, I wouldn't fault them. The stress, pressure and horrendous conditions they're in would make this kind of thing likely, if not inevitable.

I don't take it as a strike against their character. I point the finger squarely at their superior officers.

[flyarm]

44. see i have to differ with you as well on this notion that it was inevitabl

putting a gun point blank range to a 3 yr old child's head is never inevitable...not now, not ever!

human beings do know right from wrong...

putting a gun point blank range at an infant and pulling the trigger is never inevitable...

there are many excuses for this,.but inevitable is not one of them...

soldiers know what their jobs are..and they know damn well an infant and a 3 year old are not the enemy!
the majority of soldiers would never, ever contemplate that...ever...

it is never inevitable for a mother to go on her knees and beg for her 3 yr. olds life and a soldier "inevitably" shoots the child in the brain at point blank range..that is never inevitable...

nor is there ever an excuse for it..ever!!

fly

[depakid]

50. It shames the ENTIRE military

and- the entire nation.

If I had my way, I'd turn these fuckers over to the Iraqi's- along with their comrades who murdered the civilians at Ishaqi, and whoever it was that gave the orders to use chemical weapons (white phosphorus) at Faluja.

They're no better than Islamic terrorists- and I don't want them back here roaming on our streets.

</rant>

Actually, I think The Hague would probably do....

[rman]

41. "support the troops, turn a blind eye"

The finger pointing, the "opinions" are based on facts.