Times (London): General Clashes with Bush on Iraq

[autorank]

This is another sign of Bush collapsing from within. On Feb 1, Zbigniew Brzezinski gave startling testimony before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. He said that there would be an "terrorist act" "blamed" on Iran which would be used to justify an attack on Iran. Since then, the usual suspects supporting Bush have backed away form supporting his claims. Defense Secretary Gates did so in Europe saying that the munitions "may" be Iranian, no one in the government will sign onto the Bush package of "evidence" that Iran is the main supplier of weapons, and now this. Bush's top General denies Bush claims on Iranian weapons. Don't get me wrong, Iran is a mess but this shows just how close to total "free fall" we are in terms of Bush's viability as a leader. See Conspiracy Theory Goes Mainstream on the Road to Teheran

General clashes with Bush on Iraq

Tom Baldwin in Washington and Stephen Farrell in Baghdad
Stephen Farrell's blog from inside Iraq
Feb 14.2007 (2 hours ago)

America’s top general appeared to contradict claims made by the White House and other US military commanders yesterday that Iran was arming Shia militants in Iraq. General Peter Pace, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he did not know if Iranian-made material used to assemble roadside bombs in Iraq had been supplied on Tehran’s orders.

“That does not translate that the Iranian Government, for sure, is directly involved in doing this,” he said on a visit to Jakarta, the Indonesian capital. “What it does say is that things made in Iran are being used in Iraq to kill coalition soldiers.”

On Sunday US military officials in Baghdad said that al-Quds Force, an Iranian para-military organisation, was sending arms into Iraq. Weapons that they said were “coming from the highest level of the Iranian Government” included bombs that shot molten metal jets through the armour of American tanks, which had been responsible for killing 170 US troops and wounding more than 600. Last night a new Iraqi security crackdown was announced, which included closing the border with Iran.

General Pace’s public scepticism over the Iranian link is surprising given his record of intense loyalty to the Bush Administration, which has led him to be nicknamed in some circles “Perfect Peter”.

His comments followed remarks he made the previous day in Canberra, Australia, that: “I would not say that the Iranian Government clearly knows or is complicit.” Yesterday Tony Snow, President Bush’s press secretary, insisted that the Administration and General Pace were “not on separate pages”.

[autorank]

1. Kick

[rodeodance]

2. I watch Tony Snow today==Reporters actually gave him a rough time.

[autorank]

8. ...and doesn't he just deserve it.

The guy is a pro but a pro what is the question:evilgrin:

[FogerRox]

3. DA Fookers

DAymn.

[autorank]

7. He's going to wipe that smile off his face real soon...

...This is worse than about anything. It's the nuances that get you. In this case, it's
THE general who has been there. Guess the guy got fed up with the B.S. and said, "You can
take this job and shove it"...well, I exaggerate a bit but something like that is going
on. And Cheney is not testifying for Libby, which leaves Libby without a strong "character"
witness. Sheyatttt.....somebody threw some beef in the water with a bunch of sharks lurking.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. Oh oh, are we going to see another 'resignation'

I had to pinch myself today and ask myself did Pace really say that?

[autorank]

6. Right, and Pace has been there the entire way.

When I heard this, I recalled Colbert's speech at the DC Press Club and seeing Pace in the
audience. It's Richard the III - his commanders desert him and he is doomed. No great
speeches from our boy king;)

[FogerRox]

9. I have resigned to fighting these fookers as long as it takes

FOOK U GW BUSH

...got that agent Mike?

[nicknameless]

5. Ruh-roh! Check out Flyarm's post about the NON-Iranian shells in question:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=202702&mesg_id=204133

So just another, classic bushco frame attempt.

K&R for all the truth-tellers

[rodeodance]

10. Questions arise about Iran bomb claims

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070214/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iran_iraq;_ylt=As5ENXa0HAxqqwkpjIokTjqs0NUE

Questions arise about Iran bomb claims

By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
.............
.........

Defense experts said Pace's comments — and the way the dossier had been presented to reporters anonymously — cast doubt on how solid the administration case is against Iran. Some suggested the apparent mixed messages were meant to keep Tehran off guard.
.............

"Obviously, they can talk their way around it ... but these guys are not naive about how words are interpreted, and the guys in Baghdad knew what impression they wanted to leave listeners with," O'Hanlon said.
...........

Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said Tuesday he could not explain the apparent contradiction and referred questions to Pace's office and to American forces in Baghdad.

..............
Asked if Pace had vetted the information that went into Sunday's briefing, the official said that Pace was aware of what was going to be presented in Baghdad but that the comment about involvement at the highest levels of Iranian government was not included in the material Pace was given.

.........

[rodeodance]

11. "I think a lot of people are trying to whomp up a fight....... (Tony Snow)

White House spokesman Tony Snow said that he had phoned Pace on Tuesday and that there was no disagreement.

He said Pace agreed with the basic scenario spelled out by U.S. military officials on Sunday and then backed up by the White House — that weapons are moving into Iraq through the Iran's Revolutionary Guards elite Quds Force.

"The Quds Force is, in fact, an official arm of the Iranian government and, as such, the government bears responsibility and accountability for its actions, as you would expect of any sovereign government," Snow told White House reporters.

"I think a lot of people are trying to whomp up a fight here that doesn't exist," Snow said.

U.S. officials have claimed for years that weapons were entering the country from Iran but had stopped short of alleging involvement by top Iranian leaders.

[gratefultobelib]

12. I have to mute the TV when I see Tony Snow.

[C_U_L8R]

14. If you just listen to the sound

it's Rita Cosby

hmmmmmmm... funny how they are never seen together

[Joe for Clark]

13. It is almost certainly true that Iranian elements did

have a hand in Iraq - but they did since 2003. Now it is understandable - tribes live on the borders - they go back and forth and they don't see the world like we do.

It is a hell of a stretch to think that the Iranian "government" cooperated in this - a hell of a stretch. And the question hardly matters anyway.

As to General Pace - I think he is an idiot - and I don't care to hear his explainations of anything.

Cause at the end of the day - he will still be an idiot.

I wouldn't worry about Iran so much - we have bigger problems right now.

Joe

[dicknbush]

15. I think this is what is the crux of the matter ....

"A military official on Pace's staff said the general stands by his comments. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

Asked if Pace had vetted the information that went into Sunday's briefing, the official said that Pace was aware of what was going to be presented in Baghdad but that the comment about involvement at the highest levels of Iranian government was not included in the material Pace was given.

"..........BUT THAT THE COMMENT ABOUT INVOLVEMENT AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF IRANIAN GOVERNMENT WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THE MATERIAL PACE WAS GIVEN"

I would say that Pace is pissed and that little Dickey Cheney was the editor of this statement. It stinks to high heaven of their other tactics with Iraq and the lies that led up to the illegal war. This is exactly what happened to Wilson. He told higher ups that the Niger story was BS and they put it in to the mix any way. By adding the phrase ...HIGHEST LEVELS OF IRANIAN GOVERNMENT....but not including it in the material that Pace vetted is clasic Neocon stuff. Pace is doing exactly the right thing. Lets see if he can take the heat that is surely upon him even as we speculate. He is going to get some major heat. Hopefully if he sees that he is going to be Shenshekied (Sp) he will at least have the guts to go out screaming from the top of his lungs that it is all a pack of Lies!

[autorank]

16. I think your right on target.

And I think this General has had enough. It's a very bad sign for *. This is really is really "in your face stuff." I'm impressed.

[Doondoo]

17. K&R

[FogerRox]

18. A wee "middle of a snowstorm in NJ" kick

[Igel]

19. His point's valid.

I'm not sure what to make of it, though.

Assuming the mortars are Iranian, it doesn't mean they're in Iraq on the orders of the government. The same reasoning's been applied to armaments showing up in Afghanistan--do we *really* think the recently manufactured Chinese arms that have turned up there in the last year or so were donated by Beijing? No.

The general view's been that the ISI is helping the Taliban, and some have said that Musharraf is in the know about it. All that's needed are arms shipments or stockpiles that are stolen.

Again, assuming the arms are Iranian, finding proof that they're authorized at the top levels of the Iranian government is hard. You'd have to have a mole intercepting the paperwork. They also might be filtered through Lebanon, or even Syria. Hard to know. But a Westerner might think that accusing Iran would cause them to monitor their arms stockpiles a bit more vigilantly. I don't know how an Iranian would respond.