Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Krugman: No to "Clinton rules"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU
 
johan helge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:11 AM
Original message
Krugman: No to "Clinton rules"
Krugman (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin):

"I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. You're gonna get it now, bud
Get ready for some Obama loving.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Poor Dear. He sounds like he could use a hug
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Ah, the smug contempt of the victorious.
So very Republican-like in demeanor, attitude, action, behavior...

Did you ever hear of being very nice to the people you meet on the way up? Because you will need them on the trip back down?

Guess not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
libbygurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Condescension galore. Thanks for your graciousness, O supporters. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Krugman compares Obama to Stalin and Bush within two sentences.
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 01:16 AM by Eric J in MN
The phrase "cult of personality" is what Kruschev called Stalin's rule.

Nice going, Mr. Krugman. In the name of party unity, smear Obama. (sarcasm)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. But the venom comes from Obama supporters, lol
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Amen
I love Prof. Krugman, but that paragraph was over the top. I am going to send him an e-mail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. I agree with Krugman
I've had my share of run-ins with Obama-bots. Any critic of Obama is ruthlessly and relentlessly attacked.

I voted for Obama in CT's primary but held my nose to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. Too bad Krugman is unaquainted with the facts.
People here have been posting polls that show about the same percentage of both Clinton and Obama supporters say if their candidate doesn't win they won't vote for the other one.

Mud has been slung from both sides. Both sides have examples of vicious supporters. What cracks me up about Krugman is his totally inability to grasp the obvious in this case...

Emotions and tensions are extra high this year for two very obvious and non-sensational reason:

1) Democrats are anxious and intent on restoring some kind of reality-based order to Washington after an eight year nightmare.

2) Many, many people who have been disillusioned by and disenfranchised from politics for a very long time have become activated this year. You can't finally find a candidate that you really believe is the right person at the right place in the right time for America after years of voting for the "lesser evil" or not voting at all, and then keep all emotion and passion out of it. It's ludicrous to expect that.

It's ridiculous and insulting that the establishment elite on both sides of the political spectrum are so afraid of popular engagement that they must resort to this consistent bashing of people's enthusiasm. They're not scared that supporters are "creepy" or "cultish" or that its a "cult of personality." They're scared that the public is not doing what it is told to do, which is sit down, shut up, and consume -- take the candidates we choose, do what we say, speak the words we put in your mouth, and by all means do not, do not, DO NOT even attempt to seriously participate in the political process. Leave that to use.

The people are guilty of nothing other than believing that their participation in politics and support or a political leader actually means something again - and that terrifies the establishment. The establishment was more comfortable when they felt they could predict (and in some ways had picked) the candidates... Clinton was supposed to be the clear candidate for the democratic party, and the people were supposed to be handed that choice, not choose something else. Guiliani was supposed to be the other clear candidate, but he bungled and fumbled and blew it - so the media anointed John McCain.

On one hand, journalists in the media like the story of the "underdog" or the unexpected new player that adds spice to the story and generates ratings. But on the other hand, they do not like popular mobilization that they cannot control - which is why you hear this unified talking point in the press that continues to insult the public and mock their enthusiasm and involvement. It's all part of beating the people back down to where "they belong" - listening to the media and not getting to riled up with thinking that they matter.... and people at DU should remember this when they choose to perpetuate that theme.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Krugman is, as always, correct.
What Obama supporters are is something else. Frightening is the word that springs to my mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You mean like fake RepublicanDad 1 through 4????
Yeah, that was classic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm sure you are acquainted with your reference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Meaning? Do you think I know who this schmuck is?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Now that's pretty funny
You don't think that's a real Dem posting do you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yeah. I think its an Obama supporter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. starry-eyed
they seem to forget Obama is a f***ing POLITICIAN and that most certainly is frightening
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PinkTiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. The point he is making is valid.
He is stating that the "Clinton Rules," which decree that the media will treat all Democrats with unfair scrutiny of lies about them (Whitewater, Al Gore's Internet creation, etc.), will come again once a Democratic Nominee is seated. It doesn't matter who it is, whether Hillary or Obama -- the media will find something false to hang on them and it will be devastating to some extent.

He also asks for Democrats to come together in some way before this occurs. Otherwise we are setting ourselves up for it. And yes, I do believe that Senator Clinton might handle it better, because she is experienced. I admire the way Obama is handling the media right now, but he is more or less media's darling of the moment. What will he do when they turn on him like a junk yard dog???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Indeed.... an excellent foretelling...
of what will happen if we don't come together.

Clinton/Obama, or Obama/Clinton 2008! That is the ONLY answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. I posted this in GDP to make this very point: "Clinton Rules". Take heed, Obama supporters.
You could be next.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4534473

Lost amid the faint criticism Paul Krugman made of Obama's health care plan in his op-ed today (and the requisite denunciation of his mental abilities), is Krugman's main point: his very salient comment of how the media vilify the Clintons. And how Team Obama is glomming on, even leading the nasty smears. Just this weekend, one of our well-respected DU posters charged Hillary of using Nixonian tactics in trying to control the media - just because she expressed her outrage at being accused of "pimping" her daughter. And she went further: she asked MSNBC to look at it's pattern of coverage of her and her family. Nixonian? Hardly. What's being done to the Clintons by the Rethugs and the media? Now that's Nixonian.

Just days ago, Chris Matthews was FORCED to apologize on air for comments he made about Hillary and how she won her Senate seat. How often have we at DU raged at Tweety, and Morning Blow, and Tucker, et al, over their unfairness toward the Clintons - and MOST Democrats??

That's Krugman's warning. What they're doing to Hillary now, they did to Gore, and Kerry. And I know Obama has a lot of people in his thrall right now - including the media - but really: do you think he's going to get a free pass, if he becomes the nominee?

Democrats - we're in this foxhole together. Get off the Hillary villification train now. The "Clinton Rules" could be coming soon - to a candidate near you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.htm...

<snip>

What’s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of “Clinton rules” — the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent.

The prime example of Clinton rules in the 1990s was the way the press covered Whitewater. A small, failed land deal became the basis of a multiyear, multimillion-dollar investigation, which never found any evidence of wrongdoing on the Clintons’ part, yet the “scandal” became a symbol of the Clinton administration’s alleged corruption.

During the current campaign, Mrs. Clinton’s entirely reasonable remark that it took L.B.J.’s political courage and skills to bring Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream to fruition was cast as some kind of outrageous denigration of Dr. King.

And the latest prominent example came when David Shuster of MSNBC, after pointing out that Chelsea Clinton was working for her mother’s campaign — as adult children of presidential aspirants often do — asked, “doesn’t it seem like Chelsea’s sort of being pimped out in some weird sort of way?” Mr. Shuster has been suspended, but as the Clinton campaign rightly points out, his remark was part of a broader pattern at the network.

I call it Clinton rules, but it’s a pattern that goes well beyond the Clintons. For example, Al Gore was subjected to Clinton rules during the 2000 campaign: anything he said, and some things he didn’t say (no, he never claimed to have invented the Internet), was held up as proof of his alleged character flaws.

For now, Clinton rules are working in Mr. Obama’s favor. But his supporters should not take comfort in that fact. For one thing, Mrs. Clinton may yet be the nominee — and if Obama supporters care about anything beyond hero worship, they should want to see her win in November. For another, if history is any guide, if Mr. Obama wins the nomination, he will quickly find himself being subjected to Clinton rules. Democrats always do.

<snip>

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rosetta627 Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. I love Krugman
Edited on Mon Feb-11-08 12:14 PM by rosetta627
This is one of the few times I've disagreed with him.

This is not a case of two equally acceptable and respectable candidates.

One candidate voted to let Bush, a man who had just stolen an election so did not deserve the benefit of the doubt, invade Iraq and kill countless people.
The other candidate did not.

My willingness to vote for Obama is not transferable Hillary, the war monger.

On edit: Corrected a typo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
libbygurl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. Krugman, the only credible op writer in the NYT anymore. In contrast, Frank ...
...Rich has become the male version of Maureen Dowd, with his virulent, vicious hit jobs on the Clintons.

What has Hillary done to this guy to merit such ugly, frothing-at-the-mouth attacks that give Hannity, Malkin and Coulter a run for their money?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. valid except for the slam at Obama. a lot of us were leery of Hillary well before we knew who Obama
was.

She has just been too corporate friendly and the campaign hasn't substantially changed that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uncertainty1999 Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-11-08 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. THANK YOU PAUL KRUGMAN
How many threads here have been 'I'm not voting for HRC..' DU proves his case everyday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Editorials & Other Articles Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC