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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:30 PM
Original message
Won't Back Down


(snip)
But I can't stand the stories I am hearing. I can't stand to open my email these days. And wherever I go, it seems, at least once a day, someone very strong starts to cry while they are speaking.

In Boulder, two days ago, a rosy-cheeked thirtysomething mother of two small children, in soft yoga velours, started to tear up when she said to me: `I want to take action but I am so scared. I look at my kids and I am scared. How do you deal with fear? Is it safer for them if I act or stay quiet? I don't want to get on a list.' In DC, before that, a beefy, handsome civil servant, a government department head -- probably a Republican -- confides in a lowered voice that he is scared to sign the new ID requirement for all government employees, that exposes all his most personal information to the State -- but he is scared not to sign it: `If I don't, I lose my job, my house. It's like the German National ID card,' he said quietly. This morning in Denver I talked for almost an hour to a brave, much-decorated high-level military leader who is not only on the watch list for his criticism of the administration -- his family is now on the list. He has undertaken many dangerous combat missions in his service to his country over the course of his career, but his voice cracks when he talks about the possibility that he is exposing his children to harassment.

Jim Spencer, a former columnist for the Denver Post who has been critical of the Bush administration, told me today that I could use his name: he is on the watch list. An attorney contacts me to say that she told her colleagues at the Justice Department not to torture a detainee; she says she then faced a criminal investigation, a professional referral, saw her emails deleted -- and now she is on the watch list. I was told last night that a leader of Code Pink, the anti-war women's action group, was refused entry to Canada. I hear from a tech guy who works for the airlines -- again, probably a Republican -- that once you are on the list you never get off. Someone else says that his friend opened his luggage to find a letter from the TSA saying that they did not appreciate his reading material. Before I go into the security lines, I find myself editing my possessions. In New York's LaGuardia, I reluctantly found myself putting a hardcover copy of Tara McKelvey's excellent Monstering, an expose of CIA interrogation practices, in a garbage can before I get in the security line; it is based on classified information. This morning at my hotel, before going to the airport, I threw away a very nice black T-shirt that said `We Will Not be Silenced' -- with an Arabic translation -- that someone had given me, along with a copy of poems written by detainees at Guantanamo.

In my America we are not scared to get in line at the airport. In my America, we will not be silenced.

More times than I can count, courageous and confident men and women who are telling me about speaking up, but who are risking what they see as the possible loss of job, home or the ability to pay for grown kids' schooling, start to choke up. Yesterday a woman in one gathering started to cry simply while talking about the degradation of her beloved country.

More at link
http://firedoglake.com/2007/10/11/12187/


Okay, I would like to know which of our candidates is going to do something about all these watch lists? My guess is NEITHER. Both are completely beholden to the corporate Nazis that run this country and also scared shitless of being called "soft on security" by Republican assholes. I WANT MY COUNTY BACK AND I WANT IT BACK NOW!!!!!!!!! You hear that Hillary? You hear that Barack? Some of us are mad as hell and not willing to accept business as usual. So help me God, if you win and do not roll back the fascism, I pledge to actively work against your re-election.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. don't plan to fly anywhere
and haven't ever since the lists started. Only hope I can get into Canada if push comes to shove.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. As far as I know, I am not on any of these lists.
But the kind of things that have been happening far exceed simply ending up on the no-fly list. I mean, the TSA has no right to comment on someone's reading material. The TSA in particular goes too far all the time and really needed to be reined in. But the Real ID Act also needs to be repealed. That amounts to an internal passport and should be unconstitutional.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. darned right
I'll have whatever reading material I want, and I'll wear whatever tee shirts I want to wear. Won't put a book in a trash can because of the TSA--I'm surprised that a complaint wasn't lodged.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I AM in Canada, thanks to whatever powers allowed me to be born here.
.
.
.

I lived in San Diego for over a year in 79 -80.

Had planned to retire to the "sunny south" in California.

Watching the "shock and awe" bombardment of Iraq by the US changed my mind forever.

I will not fly anywhere, nor will I ever visit the United States again in my lifetime.

We are not safer than before 911, thanks to the actions of the USA military at the behest of GWB.

I still hold the US electorate responsible for allowing this to happen, and perpetuate.

George Bush is the USA's Hitler

Prescott learned well
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. i'm sorry
Your decision not to visit the US is our loss. Very likely, there are many more people who feel the same way.

You are right. The electorate must take responsibility for this travesty. We may have been excused in 2000 for not knowing better. But in 2004, we KNEW we were dealing with a lunatic, and should have thrown him out in a landslide. The thin margin allowed election fraud to be perpetrated in favor of those thugs, and we got 4 more years of madness.

I hope we can redeem ourselves enough in the eyes of the world that someday, you and many others will feel comfortable about coming over for a visit.


:hug:
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Thank you, and I hope the USA becomes a nicer country before I die.
.
.
.

There are many things I like about the USA, but the present Administration has tarnished that.

I liked the countryside, the people, the atmosphere down there.

I'm only 57, my father passed away recently at the age of 95.

So I may be around for a while yet.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Chilling n/t
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DianaForRussFeingold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R- Amen!
:patriot: "I WANT MY COUNTY BACK AND I WANT IT BACK NOW!!!!!!!!! You hear that Hillary? You hear that Barack?"
Thank you alarimer!

:dem: "Think you can't make a difference? Think again!

This is the country of we the people, and it's up to us to direct this country in the path that we think is best for our country. Don't lose hope, and never back down."

http://www.peacetakescourage.com/page-home.htm

"We The People Won't Back Down"
Lyrics
'Well I won't back down, no I wont back down

You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down

Gonna stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin' me own
Gonna stand my ground and I won't back down

Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
Hey I will stand my ground and I won't back down

Well I know what's right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps pushin' me around
But I stand my ground and I won't back down

Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
Hey I will stand my ground and I won't back down
No I won't back down'

video from Ava- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Dlo06F3ew :kick:


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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Ava has more courage than most people twice her age
And I know there are lot of people out there refusing to back down, even if it gets them on the no-fly list.

As far as I know none of our nominees have addressed this issue. Well, Kucinich probably did. It's unfortunate that he did not get more attention.

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DianaForRussFeingold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I admire you and Ava for speaking out
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 06:18 PM by DianaForRussFeingold
IMO, the candidates we are allowed to choose from are enablers...
I know that isn't very popular to say and why I find your post so courageous--
It actually made me weep!

Sometimes it's hard for me with a Migraine, to put into words how I feel.
I feel just like you, I'm so worried we're losing our most precious rights.

When I find a post like yours and I have a loss for words
I turn to an angel of courage to help me out and that is Ava Lowery, I love her!
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Well I only speak out here
or among like-minded people. Not too difficult to find them anymore though.

Yes the media has chosen our candidates for us. I guess they wanted a real horse race. I am not that interested in either one. I voted for Hillary because I didn't like some of the ugly things I read here but I may as well have flipped a coin for all the interest I have in either candidate.

But I plan on holding their feet to the fire on this matter. McCain is a lost cause of course but there are some Republicans who are concerned as well. So I guess I'll start writing a bunch of letters.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. is it possible to find out if i'm on the no-fly list?
I haven't flown in many years, pre-9/11. But I will have to take a trip to Florida this August,. Don't want to show up at the airport, only to be told I can't board a plane because I criticized the Bush administration on DU. :7

We have every right to be paranoid ... hell, sometimes, while on the phone with family or friends in other countries, I'll be ranting about how much I hate this adminstration, Often, I get shush'd up on the other end, because they're afraid someone may overhear my anti-Bush rhetoric. At that point, I start talking to the NSA eavesdropper, yelling, "hey! Did you get all of that? Want me to repeat it?" They may be listening, but I'm not gonna shut-up.


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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. As far as I know you can't find out in advance.
And they never tell you how to get off it either.

It is sickening.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. thanks ... wonder if they'll reimburse my airline ticket!
They are BULLIES! THUGS! DEGENERATES!

Sorry for the outburst ... :D
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. I totally agree that I will not stop my activities because of these clowns.
I will never toss a book except in their faces or stop saying what I think. If I were not a teacher, with no way to get vacation days in March, I would be in DC on March 15. We need to let the dems know that we do not appreciate their capitulation over and over. Reid and Pelosi, if you do not agree with the FISA revamp, then do NOT bring it to the floor. Since you do, I do not believe that you are not as culpable as the Blue Dogs and the Pugs.
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. You had me until you decided to win the Ad Hitlerum contest...
Yes, Bush is terrible and Cheney may be cruelly evil, but Hitler they ain't. Please don't diminish the deaths of millions of innocents by comparing Dubya to Hitler.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. This IS fascism whether you recognize it or not.
Maybe more of a Mussolini-type fascism but fascism none the less. A sort of creeping, under the radar fascism. Go ahead, bury your head in the sand. In fact, we are not so very different from 1920's Germany. Those "Good Germans" looked the other away and allowed Hitler to happen. It was THEIR fault as much as the government's, as it will OUR fault when fascism is fully in place. And really, what else would you call it when a government agency decides it has a right to snoop through your luggage and comment on your choice of reading material? Or puts you on a no-fly list just because you have the same name as some kind of criminal and does not tell you how to get off it? Throws people in indefinite detention without access to lawyers (Don Siegelman and all those people at Gitmo)? Tortures in the name of security? When they decide internal passports are in order (this in spite of the fact that we have a Constitutional right to travel freely- this is a matter of settled law by the way)? How far are you willing to let them go before you call it fascism?
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. "I would like to know which of our candidates is going to do something about all these watch lists?"
"My guess is NEITHER. Both are completely beholden to the corporate Nazis that run this country and also scared shitless of being called "soft on security" by Republican assholes." . . .

couldn't agree more, alarimer . . . which is one reason (of many) that I am supporting neither candidate . . . neither will end the war in Iraq, neither will initiate non-corporate universal healthcare, neither will stop job outsourcing, neither will rebuild the nation's manufacturing base, neither will inaugurate a "Manhattan Project" for alternative energy and energy conservation, neither will hold BushCo accountable for their crimes, and neither will reverse the BushCo policies of spying on Americans and putting them on "the list" for whatever reason they can concoct . . . those detention camps that KBR has been constructing aren't there for no purpose, yet neither of our candidates would dare to question the reasons for their existence . . .

both Clinton and Obama are part of the problem, and cannot therefore be part of the solution . . . our only hope at this point is a deadlocked convention that of necessity turns to Al Gore and/or John Edwards . . . because if either of these two are nominated, s/he will lose to McCain, and not necessarily because he has more votes . . . they will lose because the election will be close enough for the vote tabulators to do their magic in a sufficient number of states to ensure a Republican victory -- just as they did in 2000 and 2004 . . . never forget that . . .

"it's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes" . . .
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
19. Agreed

I want my country back as well.

Interesting how they dress up these "acts" to make them seem more pallatable.

Patriot Act
Protect America Act.
Real ID Act.

Patriot Act be damned....and any spineless legislator who voted for ANY of these,should be run out of town on a rail.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
20. I say Obama. He has already promised to fight that fight.
Obama wants to turn the tables and put the government on the list.

Clinton, not so much.




http://obama.3cdn.net/780e0e91ccb6cdbf6e_6udymvin7.pdf

Barack Obama’s comprehensive technology and innovation plan will:

• Ensure the full and free exchange of information among Americans through an open Internet and
diverse media outlets.
• Create a transparent and connected democracy.
• Encourage the deployment of a modern communications infrastructure.
• Employ technology and innovation to solve our nation’s most pressing problems, including reducing
the costs of health care, encouraging the development of new clean energy sources, and improving
public safety.
• Improve America’s competitiveness.


=======================================================================

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2369

Today, Obama is throwing down the gauntlet on internet freedom, telecom lobbyists, and on opening up government in general to the public. It's some genuinely radical stuff, and it includes the use of blogs, wikis, and openness in government hearings.

----

And then of course there is spectrum and net neutrality. Both Edwards and Obama have made it clear they will break the power of the wireless gatekeepers, the telecom lobbyists who gut our laws, and the Comcast traffic shaping tyrants. Clinton, though, has been a noted absence in the debate about spectrum, mumbling about it incoherently at Yearlykos, and her plan for broadband was written by the telcos and doesn't include net neutrality. She still hasn't come out clearly on retroactive immunity, as her campaign's ties to telecom lobbyists are not trivial, and it looks from her possible FCC choices that her administration would be a continuation of the Clinton-Bush years of media and telecom deregulation.



One candidate has laid out a plan and is promising open government. The other is still worried about keeping a tight lid on things.

Where are Clinton's tax returns? Where are her first lady papers? Where is the library donor list? WHAT IS SHE HIDING and why will she go to such drastic lengths to make sure it stays hidden?
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. That says nothing about the kinds of violations in the post
which mostly had to do with TSA and watch lists and people being afraid to speak out.

I agree about open access to the internet and internet neutrality but it is OUR GOVERNMENT doing much of the violating and, so far, all I hear from our candidates are crickets.
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