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CrisisPapers Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:43 AM
Original message
The Monkey Trap, and Hillary Clinton's Blind Rush To Defeat
| Ernest Partridge |

Some African tribes have devised an ingenious method of capturing monkeys. They cut a small hole in a coconut, large enough for a monkey's hand but too small for a monkey's fist. They then put a few peanuts inside the coconut. When the monkey reaches inside and grabs the peanuts, it is unable to extract its hand.

The monkey is then faced with two choices: let go of the bait and go free or hold on to the bait and be captured. Escaping with the bait is not an option. African monkeys, determined and single-minded critters that they are, usually hold-on until captured.

Hillary Clinton, it seems, is consumed with a monkey-like determination to become the 44th President of the United States, and with that consuming objective in mind, she fails to perceive the context and the likely consequences of her behavior. She has essentially two options: hang on to her determination to win the nomination by any and all means necessary, which, as I will explain below, will almost certainly result in the election of John McCain, or let go of her personal ambition and join a united effort to elect a Democratic President in November. Winning both the nomination and the general election is apparently out of the question.

Most objective observers of the campaign agree that Barack Obama has a near-mathematical lock on the nomination, provided the contest continues according to the party's rules. In compliance with a signed agreement by both candidates, the unauthorized and uncontested Michigan and Florida primaries are out of play. Any likely compromise resolution of the Michigan and Florida controversies will be of negligible advantage to either side. Obama's 150 pledged delegate lead can only be overcome by unobtainable two to one Clinton majorities in all the remaining primaries followed by the support of a majority of the super delegates.

Clinton can play fair, or she can play dirty. If she plays fair by following the rules and refraining from smear tactics, she will surely lose the nomination. Given Barack Obama's unassailable lead among the pledged delegates, it is clear that the super-delegates will not overturn the people's will as expressed in the primaries and the caucuses. Nancy Pelosi, who leads more than two-hundred super-delegates, has recently announced as much.

So if Clinton is to be nominated, she must overturn rules that she has agreed to, persuade most of the super-delegates to ignore the will of the voters and caucus participants, and to accomplish all this she must diminish Obama's stature through negative campaigning. Because such tactics also devastate the public opinion of her (not very high to begin with), those same tactics employed to gain the nomination will almost certainly deprive her of the presidency in the general election.

In sum, this is Hillary's dilemma: Hold on to the bait, and both Clinton and the Democrats lose. Let go of the bait, and Obama wins. Hillary Clinton's victory in November is not an option.

Clinton began her campaign with the pollsters projecting that about half of the voting population would not vote for her under any circumstances. So to win the presidency, she must somehow reverse a widespread negative public perception of her. And what is this perception? Among other things, that she is shrill, self-serving, unprincipled, manipulative, and untrustworthy. And yet to win the nomination, how must she behave, and thus appear to the public, if she is to overcome Obama's commanding advantage? She must be, as she now appears to be, shrill, self-serving, unprincipled, manipulative and untrustworthy. In short, in order to win the nomination, she must behave in a manner that will validate a public opinion of her that will surely deprive her of victory in the general election.

And even if her negative campaign against Obama, both overt and covert, fails to capture the nomination, it might well sufficiently damage Obama's stature to deprive him, along with numerous Democratic Congressional candidates, of success in November. Hence Obama's guilt by association with Pastor Jeremiah White, and her favoring of McCain's "experience" over Obama's "speech-making." Justly or not, there is a suspicion spreading among rank-and-file Democrats that Hillary's attitude is "it must be me, or nobody!" Meanwhile, as this bitter rivalry continues we can see a fracturing of the party: Support Clinton? "You're a racist." Support Obama? "You're a sexist." It's nonsense, of course. Most of Clinton's supporters are not racists, and most Obamaphiles have no objection to a woman president; just not that woman. It's all nonsense, but mischievously divisive nonetheless.

Then there is the issue of "playing by the rules." Early in the campaign, Clinton, along with the other candidates, signed a statement agreeing not to recognize the delegates of, or to campaign in, the rule-defying states of Michigan and Florida. Now that she desperately needs these votes, she is ignoring her agreement and is demanding as her own the delegates in Michigan, where she was the only candidate on the ballot, and in Florida where Obama, by agreement, did not appear. Having lost in the Texas delegate count, she is attempting to overturn this result in the courts, perchance to be eventually bailed out by the Supreme Court, as was George Bush.

Not content to defy these party rules, she now proposes her own rules. For example, because the "caucus delegates," have been chosen by an allegedly "less democratic process," they should not be regarded as equal to "primary delegates." It just happens that Obama has been more successful in caucuses than in primaries. And now we are told by the Clinton campaign that the Pennsylvania primary should be treated as decisive. Fortunately, not many Democrats seem to be buying that one.

After seven years of Bush/Cheney violations of treaties and international law, of trashing the Constitution, of defying Congressional subpoenas, and of nullifying acts of Congress with signing statements, it is not likely that the American public will have much stomach for another President that regards herself as unbound by rules or, by implication, by laws.

The Democratic Party is caught in the grips of a tragedy, in the classical sense, described by Alfred North Whitehead as "the solemnity of the remorseless working of things" which rational agents can see at work but are helpless to intervene and avert. Historical examples include the drift of the European powers into the First World War, the uncontrolled growth of world population, and the onset of catastrophic climate change. Now a prospective candidate of one of the major parties, consumed by personal ambition, is set upon a course that might well cripple the party and destroy its otherwise excellent prospects of success in the presidential election.

Or possibly not. But in order to put the brakes on this potential train-wreck, the Democratic party elders, which is to say the super-delegates, must take the initiative and intervene. And sadly, the Congressional members among the Democratic super-delegates have not distinguished themselves through their initiatives and interventions against the Bush/Cheney crime syndicate.

What the supers might do, however much I despair of hope that they will, is announce to both candidates: "Either this orgy of party self-immolation and this violation of party rules ends now, or else we will end it forthwith." They can do so if a sufficient number of the super-delegates endorse the innocent candidate to put that candidate's total "over the top."

Failing that, or perchance in addition, the rank and file Democratic voters must voice their displeasure, loud and clear, at the behavior of Hillary Clinton and her campaign.

Only then might Hillary Clinton loose her grip on the prize that she has already lost and cannot regain: The Presidency of the United States.

-- EP
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. She is so bad that the republicans are voting for her.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. R.s voting for O = crossover voters; R.s voting for HC = spoilers.
Anyway, I don't listen to R.s on who to pick.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Once again, we learn that Hillary Clinton is perceived as "shrill"
YAWN! :boring:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Me thinks the [thou] dost protest too much.
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 10:30 AM by Deep13
Based on what I have seen, O is guilty of those things, not HC. Your view of HC's mild tactics as offensive only underscores that you have no idea what really unethical tactics look like.

"Beast?" So now we are at dehumanizing an opponent? It is not enough to call her a traitor or a bitch, now she is a beast? As I read the threads in GDP my opinion of O. has evolved thus:

1. any D better than any R.
2. skeptical-what's he ever done?
3. offended by irresponsible, misogynist O supporters.
4. develop negative opinion of O.
5. see hatered by O fans splitting party.
6. actively disgusted with O. Considering McC as lesser of 2 evils.
7. hate O.'s guts.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. did you even read the article?
I didn't think so.

why does Hillary want the Democratic party to split?
why are the only people that vote for her repukes?

and WHY won't she open her tax returns?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KnaveRupe Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Question:
By your own timeline, you imply that your own hatred of Obama's guts, and your willingness to see McCain as the "lesser of two evils" is based on your reaction to Obama supporters, not to Obama himself.

Are you that petty that you would subject this critically-wounded nation to the death-blow a John McCain presidency would be just because you can't stand those loud-mouthed, obnoxious Obama-cultists that pissed you off at a freakin' web site?

Seriously - are you out of your fucking mind?
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. So where in Africa do coconut palms grow?
Also, the monkey can simply dump the nuts out or else eat the coconut.

You are not thinking outside the box.

It is the rank and file D.s that are supporting HC. As far as the rest of it goes, you are psychologically projecting. O. and his hate tactics that you have obviously swallowed are tearing up this party. He cannot win in November either. Apart from the fact that O. will be hammered on his lack of experience by McC. who does have legitimate foreign policy credentials, this Wright thing is going to stick. No white person is going to vote for anyone who voluntarily attends a church were the priest damns America.
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Eric Condon Donating Member (761 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. "No white person is going to vote for anyone who voluntarily attends a church were the priest damns
America."

You're wrong. I will.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Me too, in a minute, if I was the sort of person to go to church.
I would not go anywhere less in times like these.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Me too.
If the statement is made, as it was, as a challenge for America to repent and improve itself.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. coconut palms have been in East Africa for almost 2000 years
they also occur in West Africa

They may not be native to Africa (any more than they are native to the Caribbean), but very many plants in the United States are not "native" either.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Given my earlier observation, I think I can be forgiven for thinking you just made that up. nt
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. google is your friend
I was a plant biological control and sustainable agriculture major in graduate school. Invasive plants are one of my specialties. Palms are not invaders in the sense of being a nuisance or preempting native species, but they easily travel over water, by floating or by being carried as coconuts and have spread to all tropical areas bordered by water.

like I could give a shit whether you believe me or not. your own credibility is that of the town ranter who stands on the street corner spewing delusional shit.
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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
28. So the seeds/nuts float over entire oceans...
...survive and end up spreading where they land? Wow, that's awesome to imagine...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. As someone who has lived extensively in Africa, I can tell you coconuts are ubiquitous
in coastal areas. They are a major industry. West African cooking is based on sauces that are made from either palm oil or coconut oil.

I realize it's kind of irrelevant to the metaphor, but you are revealing a sort of confident ignorance in thinking there aren't coconut palms in Africa.
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. you should change your moniker to "Deep Six"
"No white person" my ass!

buh bye:hi:
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Ernest Partridge Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Don't monkey around with the facts.
I'll do you one better: peanuts are also not native to Africa.

So what! In point of fact (as some posters below have noted) coconuts have been introduced into Africa. Also peanuts. (And new world tomatoes for pizzas into Italy, South American potatoes into Ireland, new world corn into Europe and Asia, and old world wheat and barley into the Americas. Sheesh!)

When I first heard about the monkey trap, I believe it involved SE asian monkeys, with gourds and fruit as bait. Then Google and Wikipedia steered me to Africa, coconuts and peanuts.

All of which is wildly irrelevant. "The monkey trap" is an illustrative analogy, which serves its purpose in the essay even if no one ever actually built and used it, or, for that matter, whether or not coconuts and peanuts are found in Africa (which, of course, they are).

The point, if you failed to grasp it: (1) hold on to objective and lose it, (2) abandon the objective and it is also lost, (3) grasping and gaining the prize is not an option. State it thus abstractly and the reader's eyes glaze over.

That's why writers use illustrative analogies like "the monkey trap."

Whether or not some monkeys are clever enough to "dump the nuts" is beside the point.

Class dismissed!

Ernest Partridge

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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. A preacher's JOB is to damn immoral acts. The US has acted in an immoral manner
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 04:16 PM by Vincardog
Moral leaders should stand up and condemn its' acts. That is what they are supposed to do.
Anyone who does ot know that probably goes to a self serving church of Greed and BJeseus.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Where white men planted them I would suggest.
The same sort of trap was also made using glass bottles/jars (also made by white men).

You want a monkey for dinner, you shoot it. You want it for the live animal trade, you "think outside the box". Though I am sure that having figured out this method, the food hunters did decide that this was much easier than chasing the little buggers with a bow and arrow, or even a gun.

Monkeys are not little men, no matter how much they might look like them. They will take the most direct perceived path to a goal, sometimes to their own detriment. They do not stop and "figure things out" In this they are indeed much like men. However, I am sure that the jungles of Africa did/does have it's fair share of monkeys who have learnt to tip the peanuts out.


You damn Obama absolutely by the company he keeps, but you refuse to countenance the same when it comes to Hillary.

Americans should damn America. True Americans, should damn the America that elevates itself above all others, internally or in the larger world.

Your last sentence says it all. You are a racist. A racist through and through. It matters not how loudly you declare your support for the black man. Unspoken, but loud and clear in your word is the caveat, "In their place."

And your unquestioning support for Hillary and refusal to see the truth about her backers, shows you to be an elitist too. Money and power. Money and power. Those who lack either should too "know their place" and not interfere with their betters.

Oh how it must stick in your craw, that a woman leads where you must follow.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
34. Mostly along the East Coast
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. I disagree with "shrill", instead:
fingernails on a blackboard, or two sheets of fiberglass rubbed together.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. The best piece I've read on the struggle
Hillary can't win the whole shebang because she has to win the nomination through nasty methods which would validate the negative opinion of her.

Good summary.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. After seven years of Bush/Cheney violations of treaties and international law,
of trashing the Constitution, of defying Congressional subpoenas, and of nullifying acts of Congress with signing statements, it is not likely that the American public will have much stomach for another President that regards herself as unbound by rules or, by implication, by laws.

I would consider that the key paragraph in the entire article.
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crud76 Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Which is why
any sane American will not be voting for a candidate who belongs to a radical sect whose pastor advocates violence against whites.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Your post is why I've been staying out of GDP...
And putting lots of people on ignore.

Buh bye.
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crud76 Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Truth hurt?
Forget the ignore button and just get your head out of the clouds.
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Here's a hurtful truth for you.
If his pastor is indeed as you say he is, then he had a good teacher.

Pale skin folk have held themselves superior to those with dark skin for thousands of years. And the climatological conditions which bestowed that pale(r) skin, also permitted them to gather in sufficiently large numbers to innovate explosively and accumulate the means by which to force themselves and their elitist ideas upon those who needed all their ingenuity simply to survive.

Five thousand years of "Please don't do that Massa." hasn't stopped us whites. I can't blame them, for wanting to "do unto us, that which we have done unto them" for millenia, now that they have managed to amass a certain amount of power of their own.

How about you get your head out of your arse and see the world that is exactly as we have made it.
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A-Long-Little-Doggie Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Crud is gone!
Pizza time!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
27. The two states who broke the rules could help us heal. But they won't.
They could be honest and say they broke the rules, and they could stop their demands on the party that is trying to keep order. But they won't.

I am so glad to see someone else using the words broke the rules. I have tried.

Once they heard these words pass Hillary's mouth twice in one day, a whole bunch should have moved to Obama.

""And I believe that at the same time that we have to make clear to the Iraqis that they have been given the greatest gift that a human being can give another human being – the gift of freedom. And it is up to them to decide how they will use that precious gift that has been paid for with the blood and sacrifice and treasure of the United States of America."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/hillary-and-the.html

Yes, she said it twice in one day. It was not an accidental throw away line.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
30. even Soros said no to the Clinton surrogates
he told Clinton surrogate Ed "whites won't vote for him" Rendell NO
to his request to fund a Michigan Do-Over.

Soros said it would be harmful to the democratic party to drag this thing out.
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BrklynGreenDog Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
32. Nice Theory, but polling numbers disprove premise
First let me say I have no dog in this fight. I am not enamored with either candidate. I do however object strongly to the Hillary bashing of this sight. That said,...

1) Hillary now leads Obama in poll of Democrats. Even averaging prior polls as on Real Clear Politics, Obama's edge is a very unimpressive 1.7%.

2) Clinton beats McCain in national polls and by a slightly larger percent than Obama. Both probably not significantly different than 'Unamed Democrat' would do.

3) Check out the polling graph at pollster.com for HRC v. BO HRC is at a consistently high level of support with a gradual increase to between 45% and 50%.

There just isn't any empirical evidence for Hillary hatred or even displeasure amongst voters or the party members. You seem to be projecting a minority viewpoint on a majority that is much more tolerant of the failings and compromises of main stream politicians.

4) Of the 1000 remaining delegates a 60 / 40 would essentially tie the nomination. Those are not overwhelming percentages. It is unreasonable to demand concession and Obama wisely has not.

5) Shit happens. Like this week. Obama could seriously tank in polls and remaining contests. That will not sit well with delegates.

6) I have not seen HRC or her campaign staff do any thing other than campaign. There are a couple of lose canons on both sides, but nothing unusual.

7) DNC rules are being made up and changed faster than runway models. Both sides are trying to get an edge. This is not devious or criminal despite the wails of protest. Implying HRC has broken laws is a repugnant RW talking point and disproved by eight years of unrestrained investigative powers and 80 million dollars of our money. Please, stop with the libel.

8) There is no evidence that the continuing primary campaign has, will, or even can hurt. The forces driving the polls such as the economy and the war push Democrats in general up as Bush drags Republicans down. Every day of free campaign coverage draws the contrast between the parties. This is hardly a tragedy or even a crisis.

I am seriously trying not to let the overblown rhetoric of Obama supporters disillusion me about the candidate himself. He says he is shaken but I've seen others rattled by far less. I hope some DU posters can emulate and at least attempt to do the constructive work needed.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-22-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Abbie Hoffman would NEVER choose HRC over the progressive candidate.
he'd see HRC as this year's Humphrey.

Why use Abbie as your avatar and then ignore what he actually stood for?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-23-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. PHOTO: bush & the Iraq monkey trap
No offense intended to primates of any kind.


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