Imminent Arrest of Americans for War Crimes?

[Demeter]

http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2008/04/imminent-arrest-of-americans-for-war.html

The 'net' is abuzz with talk of the imminent arrest of Americans for war crimes, specifically the tortures that were most certainly ordered by Bush and anticipated by then House Speaker Tom Delay who sponsored legislation to exempt the 'President' from war crimes prosecution. Since that time, Bush 'lawyers' have rewritten US Codes prescribing the death penalty for specific violations of the Geneva Conventions. Only the oblivious would not ask: was Bush planning 911, Afghanistan, Iraq even before he sought the office?
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The Bush administration planned to commit war crimes from the outset of the administration, perhaps even earlier. Long before 911, Bush prepared legislation that would exempt US troops from war crimes prosecution at the Hague, specifically, violations of the Geneva Conventions later violated at Abu Ghraib. The measure positioned Bush in advance to exploit the crime of 911, though it had not yet happened. To this end, Bush sought Congressional authorization to go to war with the Netherlands should US troops find themselves on trial for war crimes at the Hague!...The measure exempting US troops from 'war crimes' was introduced by Rep. Tom DeLay (R-TX) as an amendment to H.R. 1646, The Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 2001, on May 8, 2001. It passed the House 282-137 on May 10 and introduced as S. 857 in the Senate on May 9 by Senators Jesse Helms (R-NC), Zell Miller (D-GA), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), John Warner (R-VA), Trent Lott (R-MS), Richard Shelby (R-AL), and Frank Murkowski (R-AK) --the usual suspects!

The bill authorized Bush "...to use all means (including the provision of legal assistance) necessary to bring about the release of covered US persons and covered allied persons held captive by or on behalf of the Court . Some highlights:

* The President is authorized to invade The Hague. Specifically, the bill empowers Bush to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release from captivity of US or Allied personnel detained or imprisoned against their will by or on behalf of the Court.
* No US governmental entity --including State or local governments and court of any US jurisdiction --may cooperate with the ICC in arrests, extraditions, searches and seizures, taking of evidence, seizure of assets, or similar matters.
* No ICC agent may conduct any investigation in the US.
* No classified national security information can be transferred directly or indirectly to the ICC or to countries Party to the Rome Statute.
* These provisions are in addition to existing US law (the 2000-2001 Foreign Relations Authorization Act) which prohibits any US funds going to the ICC once it has been established unless the Senate has given its advice and consent to the Rome Treaty.

This measure was introduced before 911 in anticipation of a 'War on Terrorism' that only those with guilty foreknowledge could have anticipated, a 'war' that would include US aggression against Afghanistan and Iraq. Certainly no one but Bush, Dick Cheney, Tom Delay, the Project for the New American Century and high level members of the Bush administration could have anticipated the improbable series of events leading to the American quagmire in Iraq. Certainly, they are not 'psychic' despite a mantra repeated ad nauseam post 911: "No one could have foreseen...."! In fact, only the Bush administration 'foresaw' 911 in such detail, that they planned in advance to make legal the very laws they have in fact violated in the post-911 world. What incredible coincidences!

Certainly, no one but Bush --or those who had planned to help him perpetrate them --would have or could have foreseen that US atrocities at Abu Ghraib, GITMO and a gulag archipelago of US torture centers throughout eastern Europe would have necessitated measures in advance to get them off the hook, measures that would put Bush, US brass and members of his criminal junta above the law! This measure amounts to a criminal administration positioning itself --in advance --to exploit the crime of 911. It is more evidence that 911 was anticipated. It is evidence that 911 was an inside job.

MUCH MORE AT LINK

[mainegreen]

1. America would never, ever, ever, ever invade Nederland.

Fanciful scenario:

We invade Nederland.
Nederland declares war on us.
EU nations follow suit, minus England.
While we are busy in getting all our expensive toys destroyed in Europe by our first technologically equal opponents since WWII, our more traditional opponents would take advantage of our distraction to engage in their goals:

Taiwan to China. Possibly Mongolia to China.
Russia re-asserts dominance over all of Caucuses. This spreads regional instability total destabilizing all of central asia.
Radical islam takes over weaker nations in souther central asia; stronger than before.
Pakistan weakened by central asia destabilization, India may take advantage to capture all of Kashmir.

In south america, there is certainly potential for old disputes to be finally resolved, as Uncle Sam is to weak to flex any power in the southern hemisphere. Perhaps the final destruction as Columbia as a nation?

Japan sensing America's inability to protect it, and China's new aggressive policies, would re militarize. Complete polarization and destabilization of asia. Russia would promote this, as China is it's greatest threat to it's resource rich, but remote and sparsely populated eastern regions. Plus, big boost in arms sales!

The powers that really be in this country would never risk such a scenario.
They might however try to 'exctract' any prisoners. But invade? No way.

Edited to add:
I doubt the powers that be in Europe would like this scenario either. If someone tries to bring charges against an American for this, expect the governments to waste no expense trying to find a loophole to prevent it.

[Prophet 451]

7. England might join in actually

Because of Blair's uncritical acceptance of the Bush "doctrine" (which is why he was eventually forced out), there's a lot of seething resentment of the US here. Brown is a little more likely to listen to the people than Blair (he's more aware of how precarious his situation is) and therefore, England could join in an anti-US war. If England gets involved, that probably means teh Crown Protectorates (Canada and Australia and a few tiny African nations) would get involved too.

Obviously, I'm not recommending any of this, just playing with the possible scenarios.

[dixiegrrrrl]

9. " The powers that really be in this country would never risk such a scenario "

Must respectfully point out that the powers that be, for the past 8 years, have committed a gargantuan list of "scenarios" no one would have thought possible.
I put nothing past them.
Nothing.

[lenhart]

11. Tom DeLay thought the possibility real enough

The point is that Bush and his advocate in the US house --Tom DeLay, a crook --felt threatened by the consequences of what they were, in fact, planning to do and wanted to cover their asses. If one is not planning to perpetrate what Bush, in fact, has since done *torture, war crimes, et al), then there would have been no need for such legislation. The bill is, in my opinion, unconstitutional --but we will have to wait until it is challenged to see how a packed court will rule.

[Blaze Diem]

2. K & R.............attack The Hague??? Premeditated War.

My 84 yr old father, a WW2 serviceman, watched on Sept 11 as the WTC was attacked & simply replied, "Bush did this."
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All policies and laws created while criminal Bush has been in the White House should be rescinded. The US Presidency was overthrown by a criminal cabal and Sept 11 created to control the people by fear, to gain support for the invasion & total destruction of a country and its people, for the purpose of world domination and monetary gain.
This is the truth as many have suspected all along.
When Scalia says the American people should "forget about" the Bush selection by the Supreme Court as President, then he also belongs in the premeditation and planing of this & should be held as a co-conspirator.
Who can begin to bring them all down justly and see to their accountability?
The US Government from top to bottom is so tainted by Bush Crimes & those who plotted and carried out such an atrocity upon this Nation & the World.
From the media to the top of our Justice system.

The Hague DOES need to deal with this criminal group, it cannot be done in the tainted US Gov't.
Creating a law to strong-arm the Hague by a threat military attack should they prosecute Bush crimes, is beyond belief.
Pre-meditated overthrow of the US Government. Our own Supreme Court wasw part of it also.
The truth many have known all along.

[bluesmail]

3. I don't see any loopholes left, they've covered their asses

sneakily indeed, Invade The Hague? No problem, we'll just get good ol Tommy Delay to introduce an attachment to a bill that gives * unitary executive rights of a King. They make me sick.:puke:

[Diclotican]

4. Demeter

Demeter

This is maybe the best way to destroy what is left of the NATO alliance, Who served US interest for more than 60 year... And that if I may say it pretty well to

If a criminal are taken into custody, by ordinary government, or International Criminal Court it the jurisdiction from the Court who decide what happened. I know that US decide often that they have the _right_ even to execute foreigner, who have been tried for crimes on american soil. The same policy that other nations would accept that they have the right to also

ICC can conduct criminal investigation outside of US. Even if it means that US citizen would be asked to come to Hague, to witness. If US was to deny ICC the right to ask questing to american citizen, it means, by legal terms, that US have a very weak case in the Hague... But if US have a lot to HIDE... Then....

One of the few country who have been placed in the Hague when it come to war crimes, is in fact the United States of America. It happened in 1987, when a american soldier was facing a trial. And was sentenced to many year behind bar. But because the US armed forces DENIED that the soldiers was to be arrested, but choose to fly the fellow home to United States. He was never put behind bars. But he can never go outside United States. He has a international arrest order on his head.. And if outside the US, he may been send to the Hague... And then some lonely years in the prison system....

No doubt, if we look at the fact, this administration, have planed to used criminal deeds against the international system. The Iraq war itself was, and are still a criminal Enterprise. This was _not_ a self defense thing, but rather a war of aggression. And as such something that can be food for the ICC. US have almost lost the credibility they once had in Europe, specially in the Western Europe, where you had your closest friends... And all this "US are holy, and we are over the law, and do as we se fit" are something that would in the end harm United States of America much more than it would harm Europe...

If the US president, would invade Hague, to "defend" the right of a person, who was held in prison because of allegation about criminal deeds.. Then the whole concept of US as a friend, and allied would be dead in the water for 100 year or so. If US decide to BOMB hague, because of ICC. Then you may even se good friends of US, stand up, to tell Uncle Sam to get showing itself... US have no right to invade another country, just because the country have in their custody, someone who they believe to be a criminal. Should Europe attack New York, or other coastal City's because European have been arrested, and facing criminal charges?.. France HAVE flat tops, and they do know how to use it... (aircraft carriers)

IS US have nothing to fear, why don't let a trial, where an american are arrested for criminal behavior go. If the american in the case is guilty, then US have not doing their job. If an american are equited, then the system have worked as it should... It is a Reason the ICC was ratified by 150 country.. Even if US bribed, treated and otherwise trued to stop the founding of ICC.. They even tried to tell our government here in Norway, that if we ratified the ICC, we would not be considered close allied, and that the F35 may be lost... And that is the most costly aircraft program Norway have had ever... And we have all ready been in the program with more than NKR 1 BILLION... That is a lot of moeny and then be treated with that... Well F35 fuck yourself.. We can get the JAS gripen for half the prize. Even with the low US dollar course..

This Administration _know_ they are in trouble.. They _know_ that if the truth are coming out, no civil servants, no public office who was been held between 2000 and 2009 would be safe, when it come to the international Criminal Court. They KNOW as a fact, that if the fact about the war against terror was to be locked into the seams It would end in something that no american would love.. Even us, who despise what US have become, would have problems with the fact.. And for many american the holy trinity, where US are the holy and that the country can not do harm to other country are something they relay believe in, whatever the fact on the ground are.

I know well long before the Abu Girab pictures was coming to light, when the first news about torturing afghans and then iraqi prisoners was been known what the case ended in.. Even when the document ion against the soldiers was mounting, they was defended nail an toe..To the bitter end... The highest ranking officer in this case was sentenced to 5 year in prison, and a demotion... But he is still in the armed forces.. And are still in the intelligence part of the US forces...

In many ayes. The USA are just not doing nothing criminal. Even if it is proven otherwise. And if an american are put on trial in the HAGUE. Do you don't believe that the HAGUE would be working according to international law, and democratic traditions?.. And in difference from the US kangaroo cort in Guantanamo Bay, we don't excite people here in the Europe, but have a rather humane way to let them be in prison...

And that is maybe all his "little bushes" in US most afraid about.. One that the truth about this administration to be known. Two, that the guilty would be sentenced to prison, instead of a firing squad..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[catnhatnh]

8. You handle English better than our President.

Your points are well made. I, like many others, eagerly await the judgement of the World Court on this criminal regime.

[Diclotican]

catnhatnh

catnhatnh

Thank you. And your current President are a plain moron... I can't understand to this day that this man was elected President in your great republic... Sorry I just can't understand it..

And i HOPE that in time this administration would be hold accountable for what they have being doing.. for the last 8 year.. Think about it, even justify invading friends and allied.. NO wonder why US are not to keen on letting their friends and allied know the secret behind the F35 then - if they want to use it against us in the future...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[Diclotican]

13. catnhatnh

catnhatnh

Thank you. And your current President are a plain moron... I can't understand to this day that this man was elected President in your great republic... Sorry I just can't understand it..

And i HOPE that in time this administration would be hold accountable for what they have being doing.. for the last 8 year.. Think about it, even justify invading friends and allied.. NO wonder why US are not to keen on letting their friends and allied know the secret behind the F35 then - if they want to use it against us in the future...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[formercia]

5. Proof of Treason

it was premeditated.

[CanonRay]

6. I'll believe it when I see it.

[klyon]

10. Wasn't it passed to protect Pres. Clinton when he bombed

terrorist training camps without UN permission? What year was that law passed? I seem to remember something like that.

[Blaze Diem]

12. premeditated. treason.

I am hoping with all my patriotic heart that somewhere there is a group of American legal eagles working hand in hand with those foriegn friends who see the Bush crimes as severe as we do, and are preparing documents and briefs for the day Bush relinquishes his crown, walks out of the White House & is immediately arrested for war crimes and treason against the USA.
May his cohorts and masterminds of these crimes be sought and found to stand trial with him.