The Salvation Army's red kettle of trouble

[babylonsister]

The Salvation Army's red kettle of trouble
by Mary Shaw | December 13, 2008

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/19190

snip//

I have spoken with a number of people who have sought assistance from the Salvation Army in the past, particularly for disaster relief. I was told of how these people were preached to and forced into praying with the Salvation Army folks to their Christian God as a prerequisite for receiving services. If you're Jewish, tough. If you're Hindu, tough. Gotta pray their way, to their God, or else you're not worthy of assistance. It's quid pro quo. Gotta take advantage of people when they're most vulnerable. Contrast this with the secular Red Cross, which just wants to help disaster victims, not save their souls. (In the interest of full disclosure, I personally received help from the Red Cross when my apartment building burned down in 2001. They were extremely helpful and compassionate, and expected nothing in return.)

As if the religious coercion isn't enough, the Salvation Army has also been implicated in a number of cases of alleged sexual abuse, ranging from molestation of child members of the Salvation Army's Red Shield swim team in Seattle to pedophile rings that operated out of Salvation Army run orphanages in Australia and New Zealand. (Yes, they like to "spread the love" worldwide.)

The Salvation Army is also homophobic -- so much so that they would stop helping the poor if it meant they had to respect equal rights for gays and lesbians. In 2004, they threatened to close their soup kitchens in New York City rather than comply with the city's legislation requiring firms to offer domestic partnership benefits to gay employees.

Another fact that many people are likely unaware of is that the Salvation Army is technically a church as well as an openly Christian charity. As such, they are certainly entitled to promote their church's dogma and operate their organization accordingly.

But I will not support it with my hard-earned money, especially given the organization's disturbing history, coercive methods, and unchristianlike intolerance.

So please think twice before tossing your spare change into their red kettle of trouble. Do you really want to support this with your hard-earned cash?

_______

[MercutioATC]

1. I will not contribute to the Red Cross for that very reason.

I make other charitable contributions, but I don't drop a couple of bucks in the red kettle any more.

[Lisa0825]

17. Does Red Cross discriminate too?

I was aware of the problems with the Salvation Army, but did not know that about Red Cross.

[MercutioATC]

19. Oooops....I meant the Salvation Army.

I had just read an article on the Red Cross and I must've transposed the names.

Sorry.

[Lisa0825]

20. Good! :-)

Ya had me concerned :-)

[TommyO]

2. I used to drop money into the kettles regularly, until 2001

Washington, D.C.—President George W. Bush would change regulations to allow religious groups that get federal money to discriminate against gays and lesbians, according to a memo revealed in a July 10 Washington Post story, in exchange for the Salvation Army’s help getting his "faith-based" initiative passed.

The revelation touched off a maelstrom of controversy and White House backpedaling.

According to the memo, the White House had committed itself to introducing regulations protecting "faith based" charities from local and state laws barring employment discrimination based on sexual orientation.

In exchange for his help, the internal Salvation Army document said, the group would use its clout to support Bush’s proposal, which would give government funds to religious charities providing social services in lieu of government programs.

More at http://www.gaypeopleschronicle.com/stories/01jul13.htm

These bastards haven't gotten a dime from me since then.

[BlueJazz]

3. I've known about their "Christian-Like Ways" for a long time. One of my Jewish friends....

...tried to get a volunteer job with them.
He was told "We like individuals who share our views".

This was about 5 years ago and I doubt they have changed their "views"

[Tansy_Gold]

25. Contrast this to the Catholic Charities office where my daughter worked

for several years in NJ -- most of the women in her office were Jewish, several of them Orthodox.


Tansy Gold, who still doesn't support religion-based charities

[Wapsie B]

4. I think the Salvation Army is one of those rwing groups that has benefited

from people not being aware of what's going on. Many people do not look deeper into the organization than what they see on the surface.

[RoyGBiv]

5. My own experience ...

Since this is based on anecdotal information, I thought I'd add my own.

The Salvation Army, as an organization, may or may not be a lot of things, but much like individual churches in individual towns, the Salvation Army, which is a church, may run differently in Town A than it does in Town B than it does at national headquarters than it does in other countries.

I was married in a Salvation Army church. (It's Methodist, IIRC.) I was never a member, but my best friend growing up was, and we had a double-wedding. I also attended "meetings" with him from time to time, but never once the actual church service. I was never pressured to do so. Since I was around a lot, I was asked if I wanted to go, but when I let it be known I didn't, nothing else was asked of me. The SA where I lived had a very active youth program, and I got to do all sorts of things, from camping to learning to shoot skeet to playing volleyball to putting on plays, that I didn't get much of a chance to do elsewhere. I went to all these events I could, was always welcomed, and rarely, if ever, heard any "preaching."

Every year, at Christmas, my friend and his father spent their evenings on some incredibly cold nights ringing their bells and collecting their change.

And, every year over 100 families in our small town of around 15,000 ate *all year* because of what the Salvation Army gave them, funded in large part by money and goods collected at Christmas. Some of these people became members. Others did not. It was never a requirement.

Furthermore, my friend, his father, and I often went out during the aftermaths of tornadoes to aid in disaster relief. Never once was anyone "preached" to, nor any questions asked in fact. We handed out coffee and food and blankets and water and whatever else was needed that we had.

So anyway ... that's my addition.

[patrice]

8. Thanks for the Perspective. nt

[sandnsea]

10. Shelters can be different

Where going to some kind of service is required. That's also true of some Catholic shelters, even domestic violence shelters. I've never known them to require service attendance for sporadic help, like a food basket or rent check. They brought us a Christmas dinner after our home burned down and didn't ask for anything in return. I think it depends on the circumstance.

[RoyGBiv]

12. Probably so ...

The SA where I lived didn't run an actual shelter. People who showed up looking for help who were homeless often were taken in by church members into their personal homes for a time and helped to the extent that was possible. Of course when you're in someone's house, you're going to hear the things they talk about. Again in my experience, the members of the local SA were rather low-key on the "preach" volume. As I said, they're Methodists. I tend to like Methodists anyway.

Some of the complaining I hear about the SA seems based on many people being unaware it really is a church. You're going to hear "church things" from "church people," especially if you spend a lot of time around them. In my experience, I've not noticed a lot of difference between the SA and, as you point out, Catholic charities or several others run by churches. The one church-based charity I have had major, personal problems with is one run by an Apostolic church. They pretty much do require you accept their dogma before you can get help from them.

In any case, if one doesn't want to give to a charitable organization run by church, by all means don't. What I don't understand -- except due to the mentioned possibility that people don't realize it is a church -- is why it often gets singled out. Perhaps it's because they are so visible during Christmas.

[aviationpm]

23. I've had a good experience too.

In Chicago, they were handing out free drinks during Pride since the parade was in the neighborhood. No preaching, no judgment, just there being good members of the community. That takes nothing away from the bad experiences of others, but it just goes to show there may be quite a bit of variance within the organization.

[patrice]

6. Thanks for the info. There're certainly plenty of others less coercive charities to give to.

The ironic thing is that the effect of this type of evangelism is the opposite of what they expect. You don't get better Christians, you get weaker ones.

Stanley Milgram pretty much proved that even if they get near perfect compliance, such believers are not able to function when their values are challenged. In other words, it is quite likely that they will not be real Christians.

[jwirr]

16. See my post below and tell me what other charity offers what I describe?

[patrice]

18. Is that some kind of order? nt

[Auggie]

7. They don't get a dime from me

In lieu of holiday gift giving most my family has been donating to Global Partners for Development. They get much more than loose change from us.

http://www.gpfd.org/

And I donate to Democratic Candidates. That's change of a different kind.

[Kceres]

9. Good point. Glad I read this post.

I put a couple of bucks in a red kettle the other day; wish I could go fish them out now. I'll be giving to the Red Cross from now on.

[elfin]

11. I used to be generous to the kettles until

their homophobic polices caught my attention and then found out the rest of the sad story. No more.

[silverweb]

13. I know a retired SA "officer" and it's true.

She was active in the SA for many years and told me once that their "purpose for existing is to bring souls to Christ. Helping their bodies is merely an afterthought, a way of drawing them in."

Therefore, it stands to reason that prayers, etc, are compulsory, although I imagine the quality/intensity of pressure varies depending on the individual in charge at the moment. Anyway, it would be hard to be much more blatant than that.

[chomper68]

14. I can’t stand “Sally’s”

I donate unneeded household goods to Good Will. I walked past a bell ringer today, jingling the change in my pocket, thought about telling the bell ringer I would give it to him but his organization is homophobic. I walked on by, his life sucks enough, his job is something an untrained monkey is qualified for.

[jwirr]

15. This is certainly not true in our area. I visit the SA about once a

week looking for things for my 6 great grand children and have never been asked to pray. I also know that at thanksgiving they gave huge food baskets to the poor without prayer. At Christmas there will also be baskets and individual gifts for the children in user families. They also have emergency fund which they administer for the community churches without asking anyone to pray.

I think it depends very much on where you are located. If the poor are looked down on in your area then I would guess that this might be the way they are treated. Here we all know that we could be the next need help and we treat all people with respect.

I would confront this specific SA and let them know how you feel and what their reputation is but do not paint the whole bunch with the same brush.

I have needed their help many times in my life and would hate to see them disappear. What are you going to put in their place?

[Joanne98]

21. They gave money to the Bush campaign TWICE!

I NEVER give them a dime anymore.

[Adsos Letter]

22. This is a fine example...

of the potential problems associated with "faith-based" programs...only, in their case, one doesn't get the option of eschewing to donate, given their use of tax funding.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Forget the Red Kettles

Go find your local Food Bank and fill the shelves there.

[Tansy_Gold]

26. Or adopt a family

Some friends of mine, their daughter and son-in-law and grandsons, have adopted a family for the holidays. they are having two holiday parties and asking friends to donate non-perishable food and anything else they think the adopted family can use, either for the holidays or through the year.


Tansy Gold, who stopped donating to the Salvation Army many, many, many years ago for a variety of reasons

[ksimons]

27. Thanks for the info

Guess it is best to help one-on-one, to someone you can directly benefit vs. going through the games.

Thanks for the research & posting.

[shrike]

28. The people I've met in Hurricane-devastated areas

told me the Army was the only organization they could count on for help. No proselytizing. none of that.

And they HATE the Red Cross. HATE,HATE. The RC expected them to BUY things, no joke. You need clothes, you need a cot, fine, but you have to pay them for it. I spoke to flood victims personally who had this experience. None of them could understand why this aspect of the Red Cross is never brought up. Probably because it's a sacred cow, I told them.

I also heard a story about a Mississippi town where both the Red Cross and the Army visited. The Red Cross had a truckload of donated clothing. They drove to the local Walmart, dumped the clothes in one big pile in the parking lot, and got out of town. I spoke to a man who stood there and watched it happen. Some of the clothes were dirty; they had to pick through the pile in order to find things.

The Army, on the other hand, served hot meals, bottles of water, handed out clothing in a DIGNIFIED manner.

[juno jones]

29. IN my home town they used to skim the donations

The shitty mundane stuff wound up at Sally's thrift store. Any good stuff, antiques, decent clothes, etc wound up at a second-hand/antique store run by the local head of the organiazaion. His store. His money. From donated items. Another community I lived in had SA donation boxes all over the county, but the closest SA store was over an hour's drive away.

That they discriminate doesn't surprise me. That they prosteletyse to the vulnerable appalls me, but I am against faith-based groups using charity as a method of picking up new members or simply preaching to non-believers. Mandatory prostelezation is actually abuse and it shouldn't be done on the public dime, whether that comes from donations or taxes.

Edit to add: apparently one's view of the SA has a lot to do with the locality of the church.
Some people have OK experiences. Many haven't, go figure.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. I volunteered with a Salvation Army program for homeless youth for 4 years

Greenhouse in Portland had an evening drop-in center with meals, as well as an alternative high school program with lunch.

During our training, we were told that about 1/3 of the kids would be gay, and if that bothered us, we should quit now.

Although the center offered a Sunday morning service, no one was required to attend. Most of the time, the kids would come in, have dinner (provided by churches and civic organizations, each of which took one day per month), and sit around watching TV, playing card or board games, reading, or just talking. They could get clothes for job interviews or put their name on the list for showers or laundry.

The paid staff, some of whom were Salvation Army, some of whom weren't, did a lot of running interference between gay throwaway kids and their parents. I recall them expressing their exasperation with parents who believed that their kids could just stop being gay.

After a few years, the city of Portland terminated its contract with Greenhouse, not because of any complaints from the kids or any wrongdoing but because some of the local businesses and others thought that Greenhouse was not doing enough to get kids off the streets. Another group took over the drop-in center.

However, when I ran into kids I knew from Greenhouse, they all said that they didn't like the new directors of the drop-in center. They actually preferred the Salvation Army.

So my experience was good.