So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen: is it game over for Swiss banks

[CHIMO]

Treasure, in fairytales, is stored underground and guarded by gnomes. The gnomes of Zurich have over the years performed heroically. They have succeeded in protecting from the world's tax authorities nearly a third of the world's $7 trillion of privately held wealth.

But against their will, Swiss bankers are being dragged from subterranean vaults into the light. The fairytale that has delivered a standard of living envied by the rest of the world is slipping away. And the country's power brokers know it.

Last Tuesday, on the day Switzerland's biggest bank, UBS, saw its share price sink to an all-time low, the country's president, Hans-Rudolf Merz, himself a former UBS banker, suggested for the first time that bank secrecy - his country's most precious commodity - is no longer non-negotiable.

Swiss insiders suggest it will offer to pay a proportion of tax on its wealthy clients so long as it can protect their identities. But the future of Switzerland lies in Obama's hands. He has promised a crackdown on tax havens. If he convinces fellow world leaders at the G20 that bank secrecy cannot be tolerated at a time when the world needs every penny to haul itself out of the mire, then Switzerland will be done for. This was not the way the fairytale was meant to end.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/01/swiss-banks-anonymity-ubs

[msongs]

1. ah the good ol' days, when the swiss were the bankers of choice for nazi germany nt

[Selatius]

2. Maybe Switzerland's reputation as a tax haven should be brought down low for the world's sake.

Why should a relatively few people be allowed to hoard wealth at the expense of the other 6+ billion people on the planet?

[jmj217]

7. Because it belongs to them. Not the 6 billion other people in the world...

Maybe we should think of ways build up those at the bottom up. Not just try to tear down those at the top.

The Swiss can run things however they want to withing the boundaries of their own country (with exception of the obvious issues like genocide)...because it's their country. We need to stay out of other peoples business and work on our own problems instead of trying to make problems for others.

[angrycarpenter]

9. They damage our country by providing a tax haven.

Many governments enable drug lords who smuggle their crap here, should they just be allowed to do what they do? No matter how you feel about taxation, avoiding taxes is a crime. Swiss banks allow people to commit crime and get away with it. It is our business and it needs to stop.

[jmj217]

15. Yes

If a government (like Mexico) enables drug lords to smuggle drug in to the US we shouldn't tell Mexico how to run it's country. That's not our business. We should figure out how to fight the problem on our end.

If we were smart we would do more to prevent the drugs from crossing into our country by maintaining a secure border, use education and drug treatment programs to reduce the demand for drugs in our country, and legalize many kinds of drugs so that domestic supply would increase.

If Swiss banks make it easier for Wealthy Americans to evade taxes we should figure out a way to stop it from our end. Not tell the Swiss how to run their banking system.

We spend to much time and money trying to control other countries anyway.

I like the fact that there is currently a way to hide financial information from the US government and the IRS. If the taxes made from money in those accounts is actually needed by our government then we are in pretty bad shape. I guess we are in pretty bad shape...because American businessmen and government officials are idiots. I'm for anything that keeps money away from the idiots.

Even if we close this loop hole in the system the wealthy will find or make another one. Why? Because they have enormous incentive to figure it out.

Bravo to those who are smart enough to hide their money from the government. Even if it sits unused in a bank account it will be spent more wisely.

[angrycarpenter]

18. I disagree

You will not find a lot of us here on DU in "The government is enemy" camp. We also like to believe that no one is above the law. I personally believe that anyone who makes millions from our markets and then pays no taxes is a thief who steals from us all.

[jmj217]

20. I understand your point of view and...

I can see what your saying.

I don't think the government is the enemy, just inefficient, wasteful, and lazy. I'm on the side of anyone that resists the will of a wasteful organization. I agree no one is above the law but I also think in this case the government is not enforcing the law in the heavy handed, lazy manner.

We should try to be smarter than the tax evaders and figure out some other way to enforce the tax code without poking our nose in someone else's business.

[Me.]

10. Render Unto Caesar

Everybody's, not just the wealthy, money belongs to them. What they also hold is a responsibility to pay their taxes, taxes for services they rely on like police, fire, garbage collection etc. Those that don't pay their fair share have been living off the earnings of others. Wealth is lovely and who wouldn't want it, but what we're talk about here are freeloaders who hide their wealth rather than pay what they owe.

[jmj217]

16. Sure

But federal taxes don't pay for police, fire, and garbage collection. If Federal money is going to those items then the Federal Government is really too involved in local affairs. I think local property taxes usually fill the roles you mentioned and it would be hard to hide a building in a Swiss bank account.

I don't really care about the tax laws. The wealthy will figure out how to get around them or pay someone else to figure it out for them. So the laws don't really matter.

I just don't like us messing with another country's sovereignty and trying to make it look like the IRS is just cracking down on the rich.

[Me.]

19. The Current Situation

Has the Federal gov. having to give money to the states so they can pay for those services. And the money isn't just hidden from fed taxation, it is across the board. As for property taxes,they're a lot higher in places where schools need money and cities where they have a huge deficit.

[natrat]

11. fail-more like dishonest nazi crooks need to be brought down a peg for the good of honest people

[CHIMO]

12. Who Said

That it belongs to them!

You seem to be making up stories.

[acmavm]

14. The tax dodgers and the criminal corporations ARE our problem.

Time to bring the Swiss to their knees for protecting criminals.

[jmj217]

17. Like Tom Daschle, the Treasury Secretary, and

the other douchebags in the government that don't pay their taxes. The IRS should audit every member of Congress, The President and his staff, and the Supreme Court Justices before they go messing around with another country's banking system.

I would love to see the results!

[angrycarpenter]

21. All of those people have the most highly scrutinized tax returns in the nation.

Even minor oversights get found out eventually. You talk like you have something to hide yourself. Maybe you have some secret offshore accounts? A little friendly advice, libertarian politics will not get a warm reception here. If you are here just to stick it to the "tax-and-spenders" you will not last long. This is a liberals only board and we do not suffer trolling.

[jmj217]

23. Nothing to hide but...

I'm not here to stick it to anyone. I'm just here to discuss current events but I guess you don't want a site for discussing differing opinions just a place where everyone pats each other on the back and agrees.

I will give a warm reception to all political agendas and opinions even if I don't agree. I invite you to argue or discuss your opinion. Tell me why you think I'm wrong. You may change my mind.

Thanks for the friendly advice.

[angrycarpenter]

24. Fine

In the global economy no country operates in a vacuum. Thanks to globalization every bank in every country is interconnected. The only way to keep people honest is to have a certain degree of transparency. If a business man can hide his profits from the taxman a terrorist organization or a drug smuggling operation can too. Have you heard the term "follow the money"? Too many shady people who's power rivals many governments cannot be brought down because the money trail ends at Switzerland or Luxemburg, or the Caymans. This is about taxes but it is more then that, The people who sell arms to both sides of an African civil war hide their profits there. Dictators hide their stolen money there. Terrorists hide their money there. Nazis hid their money there. The list goes on. It is the ability to hide money that lets criminal organizations smuggle arms, drugs and people from one country to another.

Thanks to globalization it is no longer remotely possible for any country to just stay out of someone else's business. The only way is to push for fairness in our dealings. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems and there are worse things then having to pay a tax bill.

[jmj217]

25. Well, since you put it that way...

I see your point. You have changed my mind. If you look at it that way it makes sense.

Your argument for this is much better than the "Get the evil, lying, rich dudes." argument.

But I would hope that a certain amount of probable cause would be required for the IRS or other Government agency to examine any accounts.

[angrycarpenter]

26. Secret offshore accounts are illegal in America.

simply having one is probable cause for an investigation. There is no reason to have one other than illegal activity or tax evasion. The Swiss charge a hefty fee to keep your secrets.

[jmj217]

27. Really?

So, If I just wanted to open a non-interest bearing (therefore providing no interest income that should be taxed) offshore account it would be illegal even if the income I placed in the account was properly reported and taxed?

I know that there would be no advantage to doing so other than personal privacy. It's seems odd to make such a thing illegal. It would be like making it illegal to have a vault full of cash that no one knows you have. The advantage to the account is that it won't go up in flames if your house burns down and it would be harder to steal.

I could understand it if there were some evidence that you were accruing interest or income in the account that was not properly reported or illegally obtained.

Huh, Interesting. You've stoked my curiosity on the subject. I'm going to look into this a little more deeply.

Thanks

[acmavm]

29. DO NOT give me any of your idiotic libertarian bullshit or tell me how long

I will be tolerated here. I've been here years longer than you wise ass, and judging by your intellect and who you defend, years longer.

[rpannier]

28. I agree with you to a point

Some Swiss banks have operations in the US.
The Swiss bank mentioned in the OP does.
If they want to do business in the US, the UK, Venezuela or anywhere else they become subject to the laws of those countries.

[HereSince1628]

3. Hey, there's money in cookoo clocks, cheese and skiing...

and two of those things should survive global warming.

[eleny]

4. And chocolate

:D

[HereSince1628]

5. Hmm. Will choclates melt in your mouth or on the counter?

Not sure about fancy chocolates surviving global warming.

I think we need to do a TON of field work to find an answer.

[Fire1]

6. He may be able to regulate banks here, including the USB

branch. But regulating in tax havens?? I don't think so.

[AndyTiedye]

8. Switzerland Will Have to Make it Selling These

[dweller]

13. nothing worse than the love of money

unless it's the smell of $$

The Smell of Money
My boy I say you're unaware of
Things that I am unaware of
The things they say behind one's back
That you suspect but aren't quite sure of
Don't say you haven't noticed

The smell of money is all about me
I just can't rid myself
Of it's overpowering bouquet
My inner beauty cursed with obscurity
By a scent that can't be washed away

I don't know who you think I am
But if I'm who I think I am
Then there's no cranny I've examined
Taints the air where ere I am
But don't say you haven't noticed

The smell of money wafts all about me
It neutralizes any other odors I convey
Best friends won't tell me
They know I'm suffering
With a scent that can't be washed away

The stench of money
Is reeking off of me
A mix of cheap cologne
Weasel pheromone and rotted grave
Thank dad and mommy
I'm filthy, stinking rich
So I can say to you "Piss off"
I bathe, I bathe

Todd Rundgren


sniff,
dp

[yurbud]

22. this has been one of the most promising moves of the Obama administration

that shows they are serious about reigning in the financial elite.