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The Real Crime in the Bailout -- Naked CDS Deals (by Cenk @ Huffington Post)

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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 11:29 AM
Original message
The Real Crime in the Bailout -- Naked CDS Deals (by Cenk @ Huffington Post)

By Cenk Uygur

The size of our national economy this year is roughly $15 trillion. The size of the Credit Default Swaps (CDS) market is $64 trillion. . How could the CDS market be larger than the world GDP combined? That doesn't make any sense.

The minute I read that many months ago, I realized that there was something unreal going on in the CDS market. By "unreal" I mean something that is given value even though it is not attached to real assets. And the more I researched, the more I realized that was true.

CDS are basically supposed to be insurance on a group of assets. So, if you have a collection of mortgages, loans and other assets, and you would like to insure their value, you get a CDS. This makes sense since some of these underlying assets turned out to be quite risky.

What doesn't make sense is for the insurance market to be many times larger than the value of all of the underlying assets combined. Well, it turns out there is a reason for that. It's called the "naked" CDS. These deals are not attached to any underlying asset. They are not collateralized. They are not attached to anything of real value. They are simply bets. As in wagers. As in gambling.

For example, one bank will bet another bank that a group of mortgages will go under, and the other one will say they won't. Neither one owns the mortgage; they're just "insuring" it in theory. The reality is they are gambling - pure and simple. Now, the numbers make sense. The CDS market got to be so large because people were making bets in ways that were not attached to the value of the underlying assets at all. So, they were free to bet as much as they liked.

And, of course, the more money they bet, the more money they made. And if they ever lost those bets, they knew didn't have the money to pay it anyway. So, they had all the incentive in the world to keep multiplying their bets.

So far, this is crazy enough, but here comes the really crazy part - the American taxpayer is now paying off these bets. The people who bet that the housing bubble wouldn't burst or that the assets would retain their value, well, they lost - but they don't have the money to pay off all of these theoretical bets since they never put any collateral down on them. So, they're turning to the government and saying they're out of money. And we're paying them. That's insane.

It's one thing to pay off mortgages that went bad. It's another to pay off insurance for a collection of bad debts. But it's another thing all together just to pay off gambling debts that otherwise have nothing to do with the economy. We, as the taxpayers, would have to be utter fools to provide the money for these inane bets. And, of course, that's exactly what we're doing now.

AIG was the epicenter for the naked CDS. If you care about this topic at all and want to understand how everything went down, you must read by Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone. As he explains, AIG started this madness and never had the money to back up their bets.

But what really drives me crazy is that I never hear anyone in government talk about this. I've never heard Tim Geithner or Ben Bernanke or any congressman or senator talk about what we should do with the naked CDS. They talk about all of the assets and obligations as if they are all the same. But some of the debts are based on underlying assets and some are not. Is that not an enormous distinction?

The only person who used to be in government who has raised this issue recently is Eliot Spitzer. He said what I have been wondering for a long time now - ? Since they are simply , if the counterparties who won the bets don't get paid, nothing really happens. They didn't really actually have anything on the line, so it's not like they are going to suffer heavy losses. They are only going to suffer theoretical losses on money that never existed.

Why is Tim Geithner still paying off these debts? If he doesn't understand this phenomenon, he should be fired immediately. If he does understand it, and he thinks it is the obligation of the US taxpayer to pay off the gambling binges of the large financial institutions in the country, then I would seriously question his judgment, to say the least....

to read the rest of this piece.
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CherylK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I seriously question his judgment too!
But what can we do about it??

:banghead:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I seriously question more than his judgement. Let's start with his
loyalties.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Why do you hate Obama?? Who are YOU to question his judgment?
;)

Sorry, I figured I'd say it before a partisan cheerleader did.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thanks for getting that out of the way. Now let us proceed.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R That is a great question.
Why are we paying for these "debts"?
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm not sure we'd like the answer.
Or maybe we already know it to an extent.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Because they told us to. Because we have no choice.
Because they want every cent we and ours will ever make and they're damnm well going to take it.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
:kick:
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks.
:)
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-27-09 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Questions, serious questions. K & R n/t
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20score Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. American Theocracy by Kevin Phillips covered the financial sector perfectly.
A big K&R on this piece. Wish more people knew this.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I've liked KP whenever I've seen him.
Wasn't he a Republican in the Nixon administration?
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Miss Authoritiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Absolutely.
Phillips' American Theocracy is brilliant and his current book Bad Money is a good follow-up. I'd also recommend the updated edition of Manias, Panics, and Crashes for a good historical perspective on how humans periodically go crazy with money and assets (tulip bulbs even!) And for podcast fans out there, there are two classic segments from PBS' Bill Moyers' Journal: one with Phillips (11/7/08) and one with William Grieder (3/27/09). These are downloadable (free) from pbs.org and from iTunes.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-28-09 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. This reminds me of those companies that were taking out life insurance on their employees
payable the to corporation if said employee died. If you allowed them to treat that insurance policy as an asset, and then leverage that "asset" 40-1, you'd have something like a naked CDS. You can spin "assets" out of thin air at that point.
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CherylK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bump!
:kick:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. Make it illegal under international law to enforce or pay off these naked CDSs.
Everybody loses, but it puts an end to the fraud. The naked CDSs were fraud to begin with. Anyone who admits to having taken either side in one of these is guilty of fraud. Or, my significant other suggest -- declare a bank holiday on CDSs. No liquidation of CDSs, no honoring of CDSs until each deal has been scrutinized to determine whether it is fraudulent. Stop prosecuting drug cases until the crooks that did the CDS deals have all been brought to justice.

My husband and significant other gives this example: It's as if a bunch of speculators took out life insurance policies on every person listed in the census as over 90 years and living in a nursing home and then named themselves (the people taking out the policies) as the beneficiaries, working the whole scheme with a wink and a nod from the insurance industry. Would a guy like Timothy Geithner pay up?

Taking out Credit Default Swap market positions on a mortgage market in bubble/free-fall is basically the same thing.
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. What are the odds it'll happen? n/t
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. Geithner on naked credit default swaps...
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Disclaimer: I'm just a layman business owner, not a financial wizard. After watching that
video I couldn't tell you anything about what he said except that naked CDS's would be very difficult to ban and I'm pretty sure that at the very end I heard him whisper "All you American taxpaying chumps are FUCKED."

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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yes, very difficult, very complex :( n/t
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