Has Cheney been Murdering Americans?

[XXXMADAM]

Has Cheney been Murdering Americans?
by Jim Fetzer

Madison, WI (OpEdNews) April 12, 2009 --The stunning revelation from our nation’s premiere investigative reporter, Seymour Hersh, that Vice President Dick Cheney was running an “executive assassination ring” directly under his control and outside of the normal chain of command has raised the specter that the Vice President of the United States may have been murdering Americans. As a scholar who has invested a considerable effort in the investigation of the death of US Senator Paul Wellstone, this comes as no surprise. I and other experts with whom I have collaborated long since concluded that the crash that took his life and those of his wife, daughter, three aides and two pilots was brought about deliberately, where Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Karl Rove are the principal suspects. Other cases in which assassination appears all too probable include those of NFL star Pat Tillman and of 9/11 activist Beverly Eckert.

According to Paul Joseph Watson, the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) did not originate with Cheney but was founded in 1980, which suggests that it may have been initiated by our then-Vice President George H. W. Bush, a former Director of the CIA. It consists primarily of Delta Force soldiers and SEALs, who are stationed at Pope Air Force Base and at Fort Bragg, NC. According to Watson, this assassination unit is still active under President Obama. The very existence of an operation of this kind raises questions of the utmost seriousness about democracy in America. What has become of this country when the expression of your political convictions and the pursuit of what you think best for this nation runs the risk of bringing about your termination? When our elected officials, like Hitler and Stalin, have the power to decide whether we live or die depending on their whims, this country has ceased to be the home of the brave or the land of the free.

Outing an “Executive Assassination Ring”
The story broke on Minn Post.com (March 11, 2009), when Eric Black wrote of a “Great Conversations” even at the University of Minnesota, where, during the question and answer session, Hersh reported not only that the CIA has been “deeply involved in domestic activities against people they thought to be enemies of the state” but that a special unit of our military called the JSOC was set up independently of the normal chain of command, reporting only to the Vice President and to neither the Joint Chiefs or even the Secretary of Defense:

Full article (5 pages): http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Has-Cheney-been-Murdering-by-Jim-Fetzer-090408-987.html

[Vanje]

1. Kick for Paul Wellstone. nt

[rollingrock]

2. Add the 3000 Americans who died on 9/11

to his list of victims.

[jimlup]

9. That one was only negligent homicide.

These were only partially at Cheney's feet. I'm a LIHOP so I don't put all of the blame on the Cheney mafia but some of it belongs there: Negligent homicide.

[rollingrock]

19. Here's why that isn't possible

No Arab hijackers could have rigged the buildings for demolition. That would require government involvement.

[jimlup]

20. right but...

The buildings weren't demolished by explosives. While I have some unanswered questions about the fall of the towers and building 6 - I don't see any evidence that they were brought down with explosives.

I stand by Author Clark's principle on this one: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But we see none of that here. Claiming that the Cheney criminals were directly responsible for bringing down the World Trade Center is indeed an extraordinary claim and requires significantly more evidence than has been provided by the 9/11 truth movement. I've reviewed most of what they've said. It doesn't hold up to serious scrutiny.

[rollingrock]

22. Just because you don't see it

doesn't mean it doesn't exist. it just means you haven't looked into it that much.

but the case for CD has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt time and again.

[jimlup]

37. That I don't see it is actually a problem for you tinfoil hat guys ...

I have a Ph.D. in physics. If you can't convince me and my colleagues then you don't have a case and you have not convinced more than a handful of people with legitimate engineering and science knowledge. A huge body of evidence directly contradicts your assertions.

http://wtc.nist.gov/

I'm sorry, I have looked at the evidence. The controlled demolition just isn't there. The conspiracy theories all have major problems. On the other hand, real engineers and physicists have carefully researched the collapse. Since it's absolutely ridiculous to assert that these scientists were all involved in the conspiracy, and I've personally reviewed some of the evidence regarding the questions that interested me, I accept the standard explanation.

For me anyway, that's all folks. A more fruitful line of inquiry would be to insist on public access to all of the Bush administration documents during the period prior to 9/11. Insisting that people look at the collapse and believe that it wasn't the airplanes and resulting fire is seriously hurting your case at this point.

[rollingrock]

Read my sig line

does it sound like I'm someone who might be easily impressed by fancy degrees and job titles?


Insisting that people look at the collapse and believe that it wasn't the airplanes and resulting fire is seriously hurting your case at this point.

Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper in the WTC complex was never hit by any plane, the fires were extremely minimal and had been put out by the sprinkler system well before it completely collapsed straight down into its own footprint...for no apparent reason. Which would invalidate your plane/fire theory, wouldn't it?

[jimlup]

46. You might notice that I didn't begin the discussion

with a reference to my degree. I referred to it only after you questioned my judgment by saying that I hadn't really looked at the WTC collapse. I don't confuse knowledge with authority and never have. Are you sure you aren't so deep into your own personal rebellion that you have decided to deny all reasonable knowledge just because it comes from those you consider "authorities"? My point is that I don't consider physicists or engineers authorities. I AM one. My objection stands.

I do strongly agree with you that one should question so called authorities. The problem for you is when they actually provide answers it is sometimes a good idea to listen. This is one of the serious problems that the ignorant right-wingers have. They can't accept the truth even when it served to them on a proverbial silver platter.

By the way. I'm done with this discussion as it can go nowhere good from here.

Good night :)

[rollingrock]

47. Have a good one, doc. /nt

[poboyross]

27. Don't forget the alien ship in the arctic.....

I worked for a model shop for 3 years, ending this past Christmas, and one of my coworkers worked in the design office that designed the towers back in the day. He also made scale models of the towers, to spec, for a display there. After everything happened, he contacted some of his friends that had worked there, inquiring about how it collapsed, why it went straight down and orderly for the most part, etc. Now these guys are some of the ones who worked on the project, mind you. Their response was that because of the relatively light materials used in it's construction, they had to consider the idea that something might happen, damaging the structure and causing its' failure. To have a building that tall collapse in the middle of downtown NY would be even more of a disaster if it toppled one direction or the next, so it was designed to collapse vertically if worse should come to worse....and that's what it did.

People want to believe conspiracies, and always will. They will portend that Bush and Cheney are dumb for their philosophy (true in *many* cases), but capable enough to plan all of that out, or be heads of some shadow gub'ment. Same thing goes for that military officer who they claimed Clinton had killed when he was on his way back to provide information for Clinton's impeachment. Same thing goes for Foster being killed for knowledge gained from pillow talk with Hillary. Some of the same folks that think that people are dumb for believing in a Sky-daddy ironically want to believe that there is an inordinate amount of capability present in the human condition. Achems Razor typically holds true, crazy guys....plane....crash...building collapses. No definitive evidence of WMD...no WMD's found...simple answer: they never had them.

[Butch350]

69. The greatest trick...

...the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

[poboyross]

70. Hey, wait a minute.....

Didn't David Copperfield do that?

[bagrman]

28. If you were a construction worker that had ever worked in a steel reinforced building you would have

a different opinion. The amount of steel, that is welded and bolted into one of these buidings is not something that will come apart as easily as these buildings came down. Too many unanswered questions. Most people donot want to believe that it is possible that a few people could control this behind the scenes because then they would have to disrupt their lives and do something about it. New info at the video below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNaS_BNMBUM&feature=related

[defendandprotect]

49. Demolition experts themselves say it is demoliton . . . only more sophisticated . . .

implying military involvement--

Additionally, no Arab DNA was found in airplane remains --

Further, the 1993 attack on the WTC is another example of FBI backing/funding --

MIHOP --


And just a PS on this re "proof" -- obviously, this is organized murder with great
authority behind it. And, coverup being a large part of the plan. Should there
be any evidence, intimidation and threats generally take care of questioners.
And a now complicit corporate-press also plays its non-challenging role.
Again, there is only one way the right comes to power and stays there -- VIOLENCE--!!!

And that includes the violence to our electoral system - i.e., vote stealing.

These are not simply threats and violence to the victim -- obviously this includes
family members -- some of whom seem to have been "suicided" as well. And, I've no
doubt threats to anyone in what's left of our "press."

[sce56]

55. Have you heard the story of teh last man out of the towers?

William Rodriguez worked there he was there for the first bombing in 1993 he tells of the blast coming from the sub levels a few seconds before the blast from the upper levels by the plane strike!


Check out his story and eyewitness even his supervisor corroborates his story!
http://www.william911.com/

[defendandprotect]

67. Rodriguez is an important witness re bombs, especially in sub-basements -- !!!

... and you can see that from the huge efforts being put into trying to destroy

his story.

[WhiteTara]

21. my theory is MIHOP so that would make

him culpable in those murders also.

[defendandprotect]

52. And death of firefightes numbers about 300, I think . .

At least one suggestion was made that because the jet fuel was burning off so

quickly that they had to move faster than expected to bring down the towers---!!!

[WhiteTara]

78. what ever it takes

to complete their mission?
I hope the truth comes out in my lifetime.

[rhett o rick]

41. Disagree. Too well orchestrated to be only negligence. nm

[yurbud]

68. I grew up near a NORAD base. F-15 & F-16's can climb to altitude in a minute

they have had procedures for intercepting civilian aircraft off-course for decades, and they have on-board radar to identify aircraft regardless of whether that aircraft's transponder is on or off or what civilian air traffic control can or can't see.

For those planes not to be intercepted on 9/11, particularly after the first one hit the towers, would have required active interference beyond incompetence.

[EJSTES2005]

56. 2nd both of those!

Other then the ones we already know about. Wellstone, 3000+ on 9/11, 4273+ of our countries finest in Iraq, a million + Iraqi's and surely countless others.

This fucker makes me want to believe in eternal damnation again.

[Botany]

3. Ray Lemme and Michael Connell

Kind stink too.

[ellisD]

4. you mean besides the guy he shot in the face? n/t

[defendandprotect]

62. Oh, yeah . . . tend to forget that--!! Imagine if Clinton had shot someone in the face . . .

you'd still be hearing about it every day on TV -- !!!


PS: Went by Fox News twice yesterday and both times, they were running the

make happy/be joyous "New Archbishop" stories--!!!

Catholic Church is so happy that Ted Turner isn't running CNN any longer--!!!

[NYC_SKP]

5. Holy Shit, I would so love for this to be proven and convictions to follow.

WoW!

[Demeter]

6. Oh, I'd Bet Money On It

if I thought there was a chance of a decent investigation--with or without a follow up prosecution...

[certainot]

7. if it goes back to 1980- samamtha smith, 13, in 1985, wellstoned for

being a growing antinuclear PR disaster for the aging reagan.

cheryl seal at unknownnews puts her on a list of other plane 'crashes'..... http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd1120.html

[defendandprotect]

50. Wow . . . I didn't know about Samantha and her father killed in plane crash . .. !!!

August 25, 1985: Samantha, 13, and her father, Arthur Smith, are killed in a Bar Harbor Airlines crash near Auburn, ME.

[certainot]

57. she was idolized by many millions her age

and represented their future in a nuclear world, to their parents. she was a complete PR disaster for the reagan image and future nuke interests, star wars, etc, worth trillions. many of those kids and their sensitized parents would be voting anti nuke. she was the most effective anti nuclear voice/'activist in our history but the shock of her sudden death made it all disappear.

[defendandprotect]

60. Remember seeing her on TV right after the letters -- it's such common sense ....

and so obvious that I wasn't watching what happened after that --

had no idea she was so successful, but obviously the right wing interests

are so insane they cannot sustain any challenge ---

A small pebble on a mirror will shatter it -- !!!

No one wants nuclear anything and too many generations have suffered this insanity.

Samantha, John Lennon -- MLK, Jr. -- RFK, JFK -- how many more lives sacrificed to

the war machine?

[Butch350]

71. Didn't you forget another Kennedy and wife in a Plane Crash?

[defendandprotect]

75. Ted Kennedy crashed in a private plane . . . also suspicious . . .

but his wife wasn't with him ---

?????????????

PS: . . . you must mean JFK, Jr. ... I mentioned him in different post above --

Yes -- quite an elaborate assassination that was if it happened the way they are

speculating it did.

I've little doubt that it was an assassination ---

Also, Ted Kennedy crash probably also on this very long list ---

And, maybe also Chappaquiddic .... given the John Dean comments on White House tapes

on the Friday just prior to that weekend.

[certainot]

58. PS the movie "amazing grace and chuck" w/ gregory peck was a retelling of

the samantha smith story - check it out

[defendandprotect]

61. Thanks --

[Juche]

8. The Tillman case needs answers

There were delta force operatives in the area, Tillman had 3 bullet holes in close proximity in his forehead and the coroner claimed his death was murder and not friendly fire. He was also thinking of becoming a voice for the anti war movement after he got out of the Rangers.

Does any of that prove anything about Cheney or his death squads? No, but it does prove that it needs to be investigated.

Lets get Spain to investigate this for us too.

[Butch350]

72. What would be the Motive for killing Pat Tillman?

[Juche]

77. He was a huge opponent of the war in Iraq

When he quit the NFL to join the Rangers he was held up as a hero of the right wing. If after he quit the Rangers he had become a public intellectual opposing the war (think votevets and Brandon Friedman x10) he could've damaged public support for the war in Iraq.

He encouraged his military comrades to vote Kerry in 2004 and he was set to meet Noam Chomsky when he got back to the US to discuss foreign policy.

Here is an article Pat Tillman's brother Kevin (also a Ranger) wrote before the 2006 midterm elections.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/24/EDG6PKE0761.DTL



It is Pat's birthday on Nov. 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How, once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice ... until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can't be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few "bad apples" in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a 5-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping bumper stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It's interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a 5-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of habeas corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don't be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that "somehow" was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday.

[snake in the grass]

10. saved for later...

[ThirdWorldJohn]

11. A MP says he knows Kelly was murdered - Cheney?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488667/Why-I-know-weapons-expert-Dr-David-Kelly-murdered-MP-spent-year-investigating-death.html

[defendandprotect]

51. Thanks for all the links . . . Agree, Kelly is probably legitimately on the list --- !!!

[swilton]

12. And Wellstone was not the first politico who died in a plane crash

There have been numerous other examples....I thought it was extremely surprising in fact when the Florida Governor who preceded Jeb Bush suddenly died of a heart attack.....The ONLY Republican I have found to have succombed to one of those mysterious crashes was the former senator from Texas John Tower. But it turns out that Tower served as Chairman of the Iran contra hearings whose report was highly critical of the Reagan administration (i.e., daddy Bush). John Heinz also on that committee was killed one or two days earlier...The list goes on.

[dflprincess]

33. Hale Boggs -

Warren Commission member, Warren Commission critic (though his daughter, Cokie Roberts denies that) killed in an Alaskan plane crash in 1972.

http://haleboggs.tripod.com/index.htm

Over the postwar years, we have granted to the elite and secret police within our system vast new powers over the lives and liberties of the
people. At the request of the trusted and respected heads of those forces, and their appeal to the necessities of national security, we have exempted those grants of power from due accounting and strict surveillance."
--House Majority Leader Hale Boggs, in a speech before Congress, April 22, 1971

" Hoover lied his eyes out to the Commission – on Oswald, on Ruby, on their friends, the bullets, the gun, you name it."
--Hale Boggs, speaking to an aide, quoted by Bernard Fensterwald, Coincidence or Conspiracy?

[SpankMe]

39. Let's not forget Mel Carnahan

Carnahan (D-Missouri) was in a tight race for US Senate (Missouri) against John Ashcroft in 2000. Carnahan died in a private airplane crash while campaigning. Recall that he posthumously won the election anyway. (His wife eventually took his senate seat.)

Loser Ashcroft became W. Bush's AG in 2001.

The moment I heard of Wellstone's death (which, like Carnahan's deat was less than one month before the election) my paranoia kicked in and I believed that Republican's bumped him off. But I didn't think anything like that could happen in Ameica.

But, when I recalled Wellstone's death - the timing (right before the election), the circumstances (pivate aircraft, easy to sabotage, few collateral deaths like an airliner) and both in very tight races with Republicans - the coincidences are chilling.

This is very interesting to hear Seymour Hersh - a fairly legitimate source - talk about this assasinatin ring. This gives me the willies.

[DavidDvorkin]

13. In 1980, Carter was President

GHWB wasn't v.p. yet.

[Crabby Appleton]

26. Correct - it was formed by Carter in Dec '80 after the bungled Iran hostage

rescue attempt, a joint operation that did not go well.

[caseymoz]

30. But Papa Bush had been the head of the CIA

And was extremely popular with that organization. He had a lot of close contacts in the intelligence community. Fact about Papa Bush is, upfront he seems like a great guy. The closer you look, though, the scarier he looks.

If it was put together 1980, then Bush managed to arrange it informally.

Why? There has always been a rumor that Papa Bush and his spooks persuaded the Iranians to hold those hostages until Carter was buried in the election.

[earcandle]

14. is it coincidence that Kucinich lost two siblings, Pelosi one?

[Kitty Herder]

31. Um, yes. nt

[leveymg]

15. According to Black, JSOC IS part of the military chain of command

Here's what Black actually wrote on that point: www.minnpost.com/.../seymour_hersh_cheney_left_allies_behind_in_national_security_posts_and_may_still_influence

Terry Gross, the outstanding interviewer of the Fresh Air program, did obtain a statement from an unnamed JSOC spokester who said that Hersh was wrong. The carefully worded statement said that all U.S. military programs go up the chain of command, through the secretary of defense to the president and that the vice president is not part of the military chain of command. JSOC also said that "Congress has oversight over all U.S. military operations, including special operations."

But towards the end of the interview, Hersh revealed something additional. Gross asked him if people with knowledge of events during Bush-Cheney days are still reluctant to talk about them, for fear of retaliation by Cheney. Hersh replied:

"I’ll make it worse. I think he’s put people left. He’s put people back. They call it a stay-behind. It’s sort of an intelligence term of art. When you leave a country and, you know, you’ve been driven out the, you know, you’ve lost the war. You leave people behind. It’s a stay-behind that you can continue to have contacts with, to do sabotage, whatever you want to do. Cheney’s left a stay-behind. He’s got people in a lot of agencies that still tell him what’s going on. Particularly in defense, obviously. Also in the NSA, there’s still people that talk to him. He still knows what’s going on. Can he still control policy up to a point? Probably up to a point, a minor point. But he’s still there. He’s still a presence."

As for disinformation that JSOC is not part of the normal chain of command, that comes from misunderstanding about how various commands are structured so that they are under the direct command of the President, while the JCS and SEC DEF convey orders.

This is Hersh's article last summer, when he was last spreading the notion that Cheney was off the reservation and was going to order a preemptive bomibng of Iran. This was essentially part of a strategy of tension psyop against Iran, in an effort to provoke them to shoot first. Hersh wrote: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

One irony of Admiral Fallonbs departure is that he was, in many areas, in
agreement with President Bush on the threat posed by Iran. They had
a good working relationship, Fallon told me, and, when he ran
CENTCOM, were in regular communication. On March 4th, a week before
his resignation, Fallon testified before the Senate Armed Services
Committee, saying that he was bencouragedb about the situations in
Iraq and Afghanistan. Regarding the role played by Iranbs leaders,
he said, bTheybve been absolutely unhelpful, very damaging, and I
absolutely donbt condone any of their activities. And I have yet
to see anything since Ibve been in this job in the way of a public
action by Iran thatbs been at all helpful in this region.b Fallon
made it clear in our conversations that he considered it inappropriate
to comment publicly about the President, the Vice-President, or
Special Operations. But he said he had heard that people in the
White House had been bstrugglingb with his views on Iran. bWhen I
arrived at CENTCOM, the Iranians were funding every entity inside
Iraq. It was in their interest to get us out, and so they decided
to kill as many Americans as they could. And why not? They didnbt
know whobd come out ahead, but they wanted us out. I decided that
I couldnbt resolve the situation in Iraq without the neighborhood.
To get this problem in Iraq solved, we had to somehow involve Iran
and Syria. I had to work the neighborhood.b Fallon told me that his
focus had been not on the Iranian nuclear issue, or on regime change
there, but on bputting out the fires in Iraq.b There were constant
discussions in Washington and in the field about how to engage Iran
and, on the subject of the bombing option, Fallon said, he believed
that bit would happen only if the Iranians did something stupid.b
Fallonbs early retirement, however, appears to have been provoked
not only by his negative comments about bombing Iran but also by
his strong belief in the chain of command and his insistence on
being informed about Special Operations in his area of responsibility.
One of Fallonbs defenders is retired Marine General John J. (Jack)
Sheehan, whose last assignment was as commander-in-chief of the
U.S. Atlantic Command, where Fallon was a deputy.


Last year, Sheehan rejected a White House offer to become the
Presidentbs bczarb for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. bOne of
the reasons the White House selected Fallon for CENTCOM was that
hebs known to be a strategic thinker and had demonstrated those
skills in the Pacific,b Sheehan told me. (Fallon served as
commander-in-chief of U.S. forces in the Pacific from 2005 to 2007.)
bHe was charged with coming up with an over-all coherent strategy
for Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and, by law, the combatant commander
is responsible for all military operations within his A.O.bbarea
of operations. bThat was not happening,b Sheehan said.


bWhen Fallon tried to make sense of all the overt and covert activity
conducted by the military in his area of responsibility, a small
group in the White House leadership shut him out.b The law cited
by Sheehan is the 1986 Defense Reorganization Act, known as
Goldwater-Nichols, which defined the chain of command: from the
President to the Secretary of Defense, through the chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff, and on to the various combatant commanders,
who were put in charge of all aspects of military operations,
including joint training and logistics. That authority, the act
stated, was not to be shared with other echelons of command. But
the Bush Administration, as part of its global war on terror,
instituted new policies that undercut regional commanders-in-chief;
for example, it gave Special Operations teams, at military commands
around the world, the highest priority in terms of securing support
and equipment. The degradation of the traditional chain of command
in the past few years has been a point of tension between the White
House and the uniformed military.


bThe coherence of military strategy is being eroded because of undue
civilian influence and direction of nonconventional military
operations,b Sheehan said. bIf you have small groups planning and
conducting military operations outside the knowledge and control
of the combatant commander, by default you canbt have a coherent
military strategy. You end up with a disaster, like the reconstruction
efforts in Iraq.b Admiral Fallon, who is known as Fox, was aware
that he would face special difficulties as the first Navy officer
to lead CENTCOM, which had always been headed by a ground commander,
one of his military colleagues told me. He was also aware that the
Special Operations community would be a concern. bFox said that
therebs a lot of strange stuff going on in Special Ops, and I told
him he had to figure out what they were really doing,b Fallonbs
colleague said. bThe Special Ops guys eventually figured out they
needed Fox, and so they began to talk to him. Fox would have won
his fight with Special Ops but for Cheney.b The Pentagon consultant
said, bFallon went down because, in his own way, he was trying to
prevent a war with Iran, and you have to admire him for that.b In
recent months, according to the Iranian media, there has been a
surge in violence in Iran; it is impossible at this early stage,
however, to credit JSOC or C.I.A. activities, or to assess their
impact on the Iranian leadership. The Iranian press reports are
being carefully monitored by retired Air Force Colonel Sam Gardiner,
who has taught strategy at the National War College and now conducts
war games centered on Iran for the federal government, think tanks,
and universities. The Iranian press bis very open in describing the
killings going on inside the country,b Gardiner said. It is, he
said, ba controlled press, which makes it more important that it
publishes these things. We begin to see inside the government.b He
added, bHardly a day goes by now we donbt see a clash somewhere.
There were three or four incidents over a recent weekend, and the
Iranians are even naming the Revolutionary Guard officers who have
been killed.b Earlier this year, a militant Ahwazi group claimed
to have assassinated a Revolutionary Guard colonel, and the Iranian
government acknowledged that an explosion in a cultural center in
Shiraz, in the southern part of the country, which killed at least
twelve people and injured more than two hundred, had been a terrorist
act and not, as it earlier insisted, an accident. It could not be
learned whether there has been American involvement in any specific
incident in Iran, but, according to Gardiner, the Iranians have
begun publicly blaming the U.S., Great Britain, and, more recently,
the C.I.A. for some incidents. The agency was involved in a coup
in Iran in 1953, and its support for the unpopular regime of Shah
Mohammed Reza Pahlavibwho was overthrown in 1979bwas condemned for
years by the ruling mullahs in Tehran, to great effect. bThis is
the ultimate for the Iraniansbto blame the C.I.A.,b Gardiner said.
bThis is new, and itbs an escalationba ratcheting up of tensions.
It rallies support for the regime and shows the people that there
is a continuing threat from the bGreat Satan.b b In Gardinerbs view,
the violence, rather than weakening Iranbs religious government,
may generate support for it.


Many of the activities may be being carried out by dissidents in
Iran, and not by Americans in the field. One problem with bpassing
moneyb (to use the term of the person familiar with the Finding)
in a covert setting is that it is hard to control where the money
goes and whom it benefits. Nonetheless, the former senior intelligence
official said, bWebve got exposure, because of the transfer of our
weapons and our communications gear. The Iranians will be able to
make the argument that the opposition was inspired by the Americans.


How many times have we tried this without asking the right questions?
Is the risk worth it?b One possible consequence of these operations
would be a violent Iranian crackdown on one of the dissident groups,
which could give the Bush Administration a reason to intervene.

[starroute]

16. Much of this is garbage

The Joint Special Operations Command is not an "assassination unit" in its normal functions. It was formed after the failure of Carter's Iran hostage rescue operation to insure that the special operations forces of the various services -- Delta Force, Navy SEALs, etc. -- would be able to coordinate better in the future. That's why it's called the Joint Special Operations Command.

George H.W. Bush was not yet vice-president in 1980, and it was not created to be an assassination squad -- or to report directly to the vice-president. Cheney misused it by sending the special ops guys all over the world to take out perceived enemies, but hopefully now it's being put to better use.

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/seal_team_six_v_the_pirates.php

Background information provided by the White House provides an intriguing clue as to the identity of the Navy SEAL team that rescued Capt. Richard Phillips from Somali pirates. After the mission, Obama telephoned several military officials, including "Vice Admiral William McRaven, Commander Joint Special Operations Command." Interesting choice; it means that at least some of the Navy Seals who participated in the rescue were part of a classified special missions unit -- the Naval Special Warfare Development Group -- DevGru, popularly known as "SEAL Team Six." The commander of JSOC technically provides support for other special forces (SF) units. But really -- the JSOC commander overseas Delta Force, SEALTeam Six and other secret teams.

[leveymg]

18. Agreed

[readmoreoften]

23. Agreed on the time issue, but the atlantic link doesn't really discredit these claims either.

It just claims that it "technically provides support" and that it "overseas Delta Force, SEALTeam Six and other secret teams."

These comments don't exactly explain everything that the Special Ops do. I'm sure that if there is a death squad, it is a black operation with a classified name, not JSOC itself. However, whether or not that particular black operation takes orders from high officers in JSOC and falls under the definition of "other secret teams" is unknown.

It's still a big black whole of info...

[Mopar151]

25. You would'nt want SEALs as assasins...

nor any other elite, "best of the best" units.

IMHO, you want to start with the psychological washouts of their training - like Timothy McVeigh.

[rhett o rick]

43. You would only use the washouts for the scapegoats. They can't be trusted with knowing anything

important. More like Gordon Lid dy.

[Mopar151]

59. I misuesed "washout"

Lots of guys wash out of SEAL or Ranger training. According to McVeigh's Army buddies, his case was different - he was'nt let out easily , but kicked hard! There gotta be more around like Mc VEigh, Liddy, Ted Shackley, E. Howard Hunt......

[bagrman]

29. Hope that it's being used for better purposes.....

Google Conversations with the Crow. Little insight

[defendandprotect]

63. Remember Carter's "failed" rescue mission -- run by Ollie North . . .

Much of this is garbage
The Joint Special Operations Command is not an "assassination unit" in its normal functions. It was formed after the failure of Carter's Iran hostage rescue operation to insure that the special operations forces of the various services -- Delta Force, Navy SEALs, etc. -- would be able to coordinate better in the future. That's why it's called the Joint Special Operations Command.

and Secord --- !!!!

Just happened to not have a necessary sand filter on the helicopters being used in the desert--!!!

[Hepburn]

17. Cheney = evil.

EOM. :scared:

[Vidar]

24. K&R.

[caseymoz]

32. It might still be active under Obama, but Obama fears the lone gunman

or he should. He's riding a tiger with those guys "working for him."

Could it explain Obama's support for more government secrecy in the current court cases? It is out of character for him. I could believe the league of murderers sat down and had a talk with him . . .

[Butch350]

73. I think you got a point there.

[southshore]

34. Beverly Eckert?

Am I to believe that a former VP managed to somehow crash a commercial airliner to "silence" someone who to the vast majority of Americans was irrelevant?

I wonder why no one takes the left seriously.

[rollingrock]

36. And Cheney wanted to make sure she stayed irrelevant

Beverly Eckert meeting with President Obama on the day before her death.

[bobshin]

35. The Village Voice did a piece on mysterious deaths during the Clinton

administration during his tenure. Of course, if there's a connection, we won't talk about that here;-)

[AllyCat]

40. Link? Is it the same operation (Spec. Ops)?

[AllyCat]

38. Yes. Oh, I'm supposed to read the article? Okay, I'll read it and get back to you

with a fresh answer.

[Cleita]

42. I remember the crush of hope, when Paul Wellstone died, from the

Minnesota DUers who were so active on this board then. Worse was when the media harpies criticized the explosion of liberalism that happened at his memorial. Those were sad days.

[winyanstaz]

44. I am the proud widow of a Navy Seal, two time vietnam vet

who loved this nation. He did not die for this kind of crap.
I am shocked no one has been arrested. What the ?? is going on here?

[defendandprotect]

65. This isn't really entirely new -- evidence this goes back into early 60's at least . . .

in the series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy" . . . there's a now well-known soldier -
named Daniel Marvin, who was in Special Forces/Green Beret -- and they were available
to take people out. I think he got some training from CIA or was connected to them
somehow briefly because he also relates open discussion among CIA trainers of how
they killed JFK and -- as far as I recall this because it's been a while since I've
seen the series -- I believe he said they showed them films of the JFK assassination
as part of training -- re the "triangulation."

At any rate, he goes on to relate that he was approached by a CIA agent to take out
someone named William Bruce Pitzer, who would have to be taken out rather quickly because
he was about to retire. When Dan was told he was an American, he said "No," because they
were supposedly barred from killing Americans.

Later, he saw the same individual approaching another man on his team. Sometime later --
perhaps thru the series TMWKK -- he realized that this Naval Lt. Commander Wm. Bruce Pitzer
had been found dead of a gunshot wound at Bethesda Naval Hospital. Dan tried to contact
his former team mate and was blocked from it -- to the point where it was denied that the
individual had ever been in service with him!

Pitzer had been shot in the right side of his head -- he was left-handed.
He's another claimed "suicide."

William Bruce Pitzer evidently had film/slides of the pre-/autopsy on JFK -- and another
witness who was a friend of Pitzer's had seen the film and some slides and says that Pitzer
had told him that he would try to get sell the film to news interests after he retired --
a date coming up shortly.


http://www.libertytothecaptivespodcast.net/expendable_elite_assassin_campaigns2.html

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmartinD.htm

Read of retired Green Beret Lieutenant Colonel James "Bo" Gritz's having admitted his role (then a captain) as an instructor at the Special Warfare School, writing in an e-mail to Kent Heiner, "We were teaching assassination and terrorism as part of the UW fields of Direct Action missions and GW .
Meet other retired military and CIA officers who agree that there was indeed a conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy and that the United States does indeed use assassination and terrorism as a tool of statecraft. .

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1GBFO69OXILBS

[defendandprotect]

66. duplicate ---

[Enthusiast]

80. It starts when we allow special opps,

the intelligent community and certain presidents to ignore the constitution. This has had a snowball effect.

President Obama is in between some very powerful opposing forces. I hope he can survive it and do no significant harm to the country in the process.

[Prophet 451]

45. Probably

I have maintained since the first day I saw him on my tv that Dick Cheney is a serial killer. Partly that's because criminal psychology is a hobby of mine and he fits the statistical profile of an organised killer so well, it's scary. Partly though, it's because the man is just plain terrifying. He virtually radiates pure evil and probably kills plants with his sheer presence.

Check that famous man-sized safe of his. I swear to Satan you'll find a dismembered hitchhiker in there.

[Klimmer777]

48. I think many of us have speculated . . .

over time that Cheney, the Neocons et al. have somehow coward-ed the Senate and the House Democrats. We couldn't understand why they didn't stand up and truly fight back. Is it possible that they knew deep down what happened to Wellstone? Why the Anthrax was only sent to democrats and why the White House took the drug to combat Anthrax to protect themselves, remember that? I think they know. They don't have direct proof, but they know non-the-less.

Sometimes we have to be willing to give up our lives to save them. We have to be willing to stand up and to be brave and to sacrifice all.

The truth will win in the end.



Ephesians 6:12
"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

[defendandprotect]

53. Eerie now to be reading how Wellstone spoke of Cheney's threats to him . . !!!

But, of course, even without that -- the crash is highly suspicious.

In fact, I believe they also killed JFK, Jr. --

[Butch350]

74. It sure seems like some group did not want another Kennedy in the WH!

[defendandprotect]

76. They say they killed JFK . . .

because they didn't want another FDR in the White House --- !!!

And, yes, I agree re the Kennedy's . . . doesn't look like they want Caroline around either!

[defendandprotect]

54. Just want to comment here on how essential leaders and challengers are to us . . .

they help us get out heads screwed on straight --

when propaganda is swirling around --

and when people need to be united --

Also, so much doesn't makes sense that when just one person speaks out pointing to

a troubling issue, bringing it back for another look .... it strike a chord in all of us.

"Oh, yeah, that did seem odd!" --

Plus, I know a few will say leadership isn't important - that we have to all be leaders

and motivate ourselves. And, I'll just say in opposiiton that if leadership wasn't important,

they wouldn't be killing leaders and making sure none actually arose among us again.

And this is certainly still happening. Yes, we do need leaders. To unite people and to

give a voice to public demands -- among many other reasons!

[bertman]

64. Kick. Thank you for posting this XXXMADAM. I haven't read the entire article yet, but

so far, it reinforces what I suspected.

[rollingrock]

79. Ketih Olbermann on Cheney assasination ring

part 1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyX95TZQYyQ

part 2
www.youtube.com/watch?v=deBbAvr-ON8&feature=related