Reagan's DOJ Prosecuted Texas Sheriff for Waterboarding Prisoners

[katty]

By Jason Leopold, TruthOut.org. Posted April 27, 2009.

more: http://www.alternet.org/rights/138600/reagan's_doj_prosecuted_texas_sheriff_for_waterboarding_prisoners/

Ignoring the 1983 case is just one of the flagrant violations committed by Bush lawyers who crafted the newly released "torture memos."

George W. Bush's Justice Department said subjecting a person to the near drowning of waterboarding was not a crime and didn't even cause pain, but Ronald Reagan's Justice Department thought otherwise, prosecuting a Texas sheriff and three deputies for using the practice to get confessions.

Federal prosecutors secured a 10-year sentence against the sheriff and four years in prison for the deputies. But that 1983 case -- which would seem to be directly on point for a legal analysis on waterboarding two decades later -- was never mentioned in the four Bush administration opinions released last week.

The failure to cite the earlier waterboarding case and a half-dozen other precedents that dealt with torture is reportedly one of the critical findings of a Justice Department watchdog report that legal sources say faults former Bush administration lawyers -- Jay Bybee, John Yoo and Steven Bradbury -- for violating "professional standards."

[peacetalksforall]

1. I'm not a lawyer, but isn't this great news - in that there is a precedent? Did Yoo

and Bybee obliterate this precedent in their SO-CALLED findings?

[Bluenorthwest]

7. There are many precedents

the US prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterborading, the US has prosecuted our own soldiers for waterboarding, and the US has executed people for waterboarding. There is much history that they simply ignored. Even watching old WW2 movies you will find out about the water torture, which is the real name of the practice.

[mod mom]

12. One would assume so, if we indeed have rule of law.

[Toucano]

2. This is a big deal, IMO. n-t

[Duer 157099]

3. That's what happens when the past stays in the past

There are good reasons to not let the past just disappear down the memory hole

[Uncle Joe]

4. Overall this is a good column, but I have one quibble with it.

Water boarding or water torture is not "near drowning", it is drowning.

The only thing you could say that it's not, at least most of the time, is drowned as in past tense.

I'm kicking and recommending anyway.

Thanks for the thread, katty.

P.S. On second reading, I don't attribute my quibble to the column so much anymore, as they were citing Bush's so called Justice Department's description. Of course this doesn't change the fact that water boarding is indeed drowning and I do wish the column had spelled that out.

[TwilightZone]

5. Drowning involves death.

So, technically, waterboarding that doesn't cause death could correctly be termed "near drowning".

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drowning

–verb (used with object)
2. to kill by submerging under water or other liquid.

[Uncle Joe]

6. The act of water-boarding involves death,

if the torture isn't stopped quickly enough the person dies.

You can be drowning but not die if for example a life guard were to save you.

Drowning involves suffocation, the same effect occurs if someone strangles you cutting off your airflow. If someone strangles you, even if they're not successful we don't call that nearly strangling, they were in fact strangling you.

Drowning is present tense, drowned is past tense.

I believe the use of the "near" word gives too much distance to the act.

[TwilightZone]

8. That's almost exactly what I said.

So, technically, waterboarding that doesn't cause death could correctly be termed "near drowning".

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drowning

–verb (used with object)
2. to kill by submerging under water or other liquid.

I'm reasonably certain that I could not have been any clearer.

[Uncle Joe]

9. Not quite, you view water boarding or water torture as

"near" drowning, I view the act as drowning them as in the present tense, in the past tense they were drowning them. There was nothing "near" about it in spite of the fact they stopped, allowing them to live, if they died, they drowned them.

I view the term "near" in this context as an Orwellian spin word, maybe the author didn't mean to soften the act but that's the subliminal result that I perceive.

Taken to the subconscious literal interpretation, you could be drowning in a lake and if I'm standing on shore watching you, I'm "near" a drowning, or if I thought strongly about drowning you, I'm "nearly" drowning you. I know this may not sound logical but your subconscious; doesn't operate by using logic, it accepts information literally.

In short water-boarding is drowning, but not drowned, that's not the same thing as "near" drowning.

"George W. Bush's Justice Department said subjecting a person to the near drowning of water-boarding was not a crime and didn't even cause pain, but Ronald Reagan's Justice Department thought otherwise, prosecuting a Texas sheriff and three deputies for using the practice to get confessions."

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. Actually no. Near drowning is the survival of a drowning.

If someone survives a drowning they are said to have near drowned. It is usually used to describe unconsciousness caused by the inhalation of a liquid. The liquid may not make it to the lungs as a result of a laryngospasm. Nevertheless unconsciousness will occur from oxygen deprivation. It is very common for people who do not get water into their lungs to survive. I survived a near drowning as a kid. Waterboarding actually involves more suffocation than drowning. Waterboarding causes a increase in CO2 levels and a decrease in pH of CSF that causes an involuntary physiological response. Deaths from waterboarding if it was done "properly" wouldn't be from drowning but likely from a lethal cardiac arrhythmia. I'm only explaining what happens not justifying it.

David

[northernlights]

14. drowning involves fluid in the lungs

leading to death. It is not drowning.

[Uncle Joe]

16. Drowning is also the "process" of getting fluid in the lungs,

I can't imagine placing a saturated cloth over your face, while continuously pouring water on where you would breathe won't eventually lead to getting fluid in the lungs.

[Enthusiast]

11. K&R

Curious we have never heard of this in the MSM.

[Froward69]

13. Ronald Reagan was a greedy hack

He said He "did not leave the Democratic party, The Democratic party left Him".

At least he kept his morals in regard to Torture. (domestically at least)

[burning rain]

15. Predictable GObot (Grand Old-bot) response =

"Shock and horror! Even St. Reagan's administration was infested with RINOs! Torture rules cuz Jack Bauer's infallible!"