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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:21 PM
Original message
Discovery of ancient cave paintings in Petra stuns art scholars
Exquisite artworks hidden under 2,000 years of soot and grime in a Jordanian cave have been restored by experts from the Courtauld Institute in London.



Detail of a winged child playing the flute, before and after cleaning. Photograph: Courtesy of the Courtauld Institute

Spectacular 2,000-year-old Hellenistic-style wall paintings have been revealed at the world heritage site of Petra through the expertise of British conservation specialists. The paintings, in a cave complex, had been obscured by centuries of black soot, smoke and greasy substances, as well as graffiti.

Experts from the Courtauld Institute in London have now removed the black grime, uncovering paintings whose "exceptional" artistic quality and sheer beauty are said to be superior even to some of the better Roman paintings at Herculaneum that were inspired by Hellenistic art.

Virtually no Hellenistic paintings survive today, and fragments only hint at antiquity's lost masterpieces, while revealing little about their colours and composition, so the revelation of these wall paintings in Jordan is all the more significant. They were created by the Nabataeans, who traded extensively with the Greek, Roman and Egyptian empires and whose dominion once stretched from Damascus to the Red Sea, and from Sinai to the Arabian desert.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/aug/22/hellenistic-wall-paintings-petra

NABATAEA


Who were the Nabataeans?
The Nabataeans are a tribe of people descended from Nabioth, the eldest son of Ishmael, the son of Abraham. They were a merchant people who lived in Arabia, initially using camel caravans for trade and later ships called 'dhows' with which they sailed the world carrying on a worldwide trade in exotic items.

What years were they?
The Nabataeans began their trade in very ancient times, but only came into prominence in ancient records around 300 BC when they carved out a political kingdom in the area of ancient Edom. They later sold their 'kingdom' to the Romans in 106 AD, and became the merchants of Rome carrying on trade within and beyond the Roman Empire for many centuries afterwards. Around 600 AD, Mohammad, the son of a Nabataean merchant, united Arabia again, beginning a new empire which was focused around religion (Islam) and military might rather than economics and trade.


How big was the Nabataean Empire?
In 85 BC the Nabataeans controlled an area of 2,350,000 square kilometers. At that time the Greek Empire had collapsed and Roman Empire was just getting to its feet, so the Nabataean Empire was the largest empire in Europe or the Middle East. (At its height the Roman Empire occupied just over 5 million square kilometers.) During this same time period the land of India was divided into several competing empires with the Decan area in the south of India rising to prominence. However, the Decan area was smaller than the Nabataean Kingdom. The only kingdom larger than the Nabataean Kingdom in 85 BC was the Han Dynasty of China which controlled over 4 million square kilometers. This is probably why Chinese explorers visited Nabataea and mention it in their records.

What were the main Nabataean cities?
Petra was the capital city, religious center, tribal burial grounds, and the focus of a bi-annual pilgrimage. Today it lies in a ruinous state, but is visited by thousands of visitors who are amazed at the architecture and apparent wealth of the city.
Busheria and nearby Sela were the economic center for many years.
Bosra, a Syrian city, later became the capital city
Damascus was the most northern city, first occupied in 85 BC giving the Nabataeans total control over all eastern trade with Europe and North Africa.
Meda'in Saleh was a southern city in Arabia
In the Negev there were a collection of cities that controlled that region.
How powerful were they?
The Nabataeans did not invest in a large army but relied on their wealth and their wits. However, at any given time the Arab tribes could be called upon to unite and defend the kingdom.

What are they famous for?
They are remembered for the incense route which moved tons of incense from southern Arabia to the temples and home of Europe and North Africa. This later became a maritime route. They were also the merchants who traveled between the Egyptian, Greek, and Roman Empires on one hand and India, China, and the spice islands on the other.
The Nabataeans also explored much of the world. Their explorers carved their initials in rocks where-ever they went, leaving their marks across Asia, Africa, Australia, South America and North America as far north as Colorado.
The Nabataean Empire disappeared in 106 AD, although Nabataean merchant families continued to exercise great power through trade monopolies.
The Nabataean Empire was re-united under Muhammad in 600 AD, and became Islamic in nature. Various caliphs and leaders ruled from various locations during the following centuries, but the empire was never really united under one political head for any length of time.
Today, most Muslims or Arabs have never heard of the Nabataeans. Most Westerners have no idea that it was once a great empire.
http://nabataea.net/quikfax.html

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Amazing... I'd love to visit Petra...
There are areas of Iran that undoubtedly have similar amazing finds to be explored... Too bad we can't get over our territorial urges and work together a bit better towards these discoveries.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That would be awesome, no?
There is no telling what is buried/forgotten in that part of the world that needs to be discovered!
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. interesting article, in spite of the fictionalized ancestry of the nabataeans.
.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Please explain: in your opinion, what was the "...fictionalized ancestry..."?
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. What makes you think it's fiction?

I got the link from the Guardian article.
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. "a tribe of people descended from Nabioth, the eldest son of Ishmael, the son of Abraham."
sounds like fiction to me
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. I find it interesting that many in this country
feel that that part of the world never had anything to offer the world.
This article makes me shake my head and wonder how some can be so intolerant of others.

Many great minds and artists
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. Exquisite. Nt
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seattleblue Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the post. I have had the opportunity to visit Petra
three times in the last 10 years with each trip better than the one before. A great place that pictures do not do justice.
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That is cool....
Were you working on a dig by chance?
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seattleblue Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. No just visiting the region.
First trip to Petra I was by myself and the last two I was a "guide" for friends. I am not in that profession but I love archeology and I have been fortunate to be able to visit most of the major sites in the world.
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Interesting...Petra is huge and intriguing.
I don't know if much has changed there. Were you there for a while?
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seattleblue Donating Member (437 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. All three trips were about three days each.
It has stayed the same for all those trips but I can't say what it was before 2001.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. God I'm so jealous!

:hi:
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. The real history is more interesting than the religious propaganda...
Edited on Sat Aug-21-10 09:49 PM by onager
Like this glurge: The Nabataeans are a tribe of people descended from Nabioth, the eldest son of Ishmael, the son of Abraham.

The Nabateans certainly helped change history a couple of times. Both the history of the Middle East and the entire world.

When Julius Caesar was outnumbered 10-to-1 in Egypt, he sent letters to many local rulers begging for help. Caesar was especially impressed with the reputation of Nabatean warriors, who came to help him just in the nick of time. Caesar defeated the boy-king Ptolemy XIII and put his big sis, Cleopatra VII, on the Egyptian throne. IIRC, by that time Cleopatra was pregnant with Caesar's son, but that's another story.

Caesar also asked for help from the local Jewish communities. A wealthy merchant named Antipater went to bat for him, soliciting money and volunteers. Watching and no doubt learning a lot was Antipater's son Herod, later known as "The Great."

Those events were reported by Flavius Josephus, who was writing second-hand many years later. But also in The Alexandrian Wars, credited to Caesar but almost certainly written by a couple of his staff officers who were contemporary witnesses.

Six more degrees of separation, or something - when Herod the Great died, Palestine was divided among his three sons: Phillip, Archelaus and the inventor of the pole dance (with his future stepdaughter Salome), Antipas.

Archelaus managed to piss off everybody he ruled, that being the Judeans and their neighbors who worshipped an Off-Brand God, the Samaritans.
(Full disclosure - I be an atheist and a militant one.)

While Judeans and Samaritans normally disagreed about everything, Herod Archelaus was such a lousy ruler that the two feuding groups sent a joint committee to the Romans to complain about him. It worked. The Romans exiled Archelaus about as far from Palestine as they could put him - to what is now Vienna, Austria.

Then the Nabateans pop up again. The king of the Nabateans, Arias, pulled off a major diplomatic coup when he engaged his daughter to Herod Antipas.

So he was absolutely enraged when Antipas broke the engagement to marry his niece, Herodias. (Salome's mom, for those still awake.)

Arias promptly declared war on Antipas and probably would have killed him. But the Romans were not about to allow that - it threatened regional peace and, even worse, the tax revenues.

Herod Antipas survived that dust-up and went on to encounter a couple of local egomaniacal religious fanatics - John the Baptist and his slightly more famous cousin.

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. WOW! You're good! I agree 100% that the official stories of history are mostly BS.
I like to listen to the alternative researcher crowd. I put that link up because that's what the Guardian article had. I'm sure there's other articles but I don't like getting called a conspiracy theorist. You should write more on these subjects. You seem to know alot and we don't have anyone here that does that. If you ever do PM me and I'll rec your threads.
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Thanks a lot! Just an amateur.
Edited on Sun Aug-22-10 05:55 PM by onager
I did live in Alexandria, Egypt for nearly 4 years, from 2005-2009. It's a fascinating city. You can still visit the places where Cleopatra died and Julius Caesar almost drowned. Some ruins in Alexandria are so old nobody remembers who built them - probably Greek traders, and those ruins may have been already quite old when Alexander The Great visited Egypt.

BTW, telling an Egyptian that Alexander The Great "founded" Alexandria is sort of like telling Native Americans that Columbus discovered them. The Egyptians say there was already a perfectly good Egyptian town on the site of Alexandria. And while a Greek architect designed the new city, it was Egyptian laborers who did the hard work of actually building the place. The workers were not happy about that, and many of them refused to even use the name "Alexandria." They just called it "the building site."

I steal everything I write. For anyone wanting to know more about the post above, I highly recommend books by the historian Stephen Dando-Collins. Using only ancient sources, he's writing a series of books about the Roman legions. Most of my post came from his book Cleopatra's Kidnappers - How Caesar's Sixth Legion Gave Egypt to Rome and Rome to Caesar.

For real Biblical history, as opposed to propaganda, Isaac Asimov's Guide to the Bible is still hard to beat.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Wow thanks. I'll bookmark that!
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. On Nabataean History....
Here are a couple of books on Nabataean history that were recommended to me: Rivers in the Desert: A History of the Negev (1959)
and Deities and Dolphins (1965). They are both by the late Nelson Glueck.

Out of curiosity, did you ever make it down to Dashur?
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Thank for sharing that
little segment of history.
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marybourg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-21-10 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. I'd be interested in knowing what marks
they left in North America "as far north as Colorado."
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AnotherDreamWeaver Donating Member (917 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. me too, and I would also like to know about this:
http://www.kensingtonrunestone.com/

Has anyone read the book?
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. It's a hoax
1) "Discovered" by a Swedish immigrant in a Swedish community, with only his own family as witnesses
2) The "Rediscovery" of Lief Erickson's voyage shortly before the stone's "discovery" was making big headlines
3) The text, when put into Latin letters, was 100% contemporary Swedish, rather than Old Norse (or even Icelandic / Faroese)
4) Authentic runestones tend to not be like the writing tablets in the B.C. comic, with straight neat rows and no images.

Runestone:

Fake-ass runestone:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. I've heard of that. Very interesting.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. None.
That's hokum. Pure and solid bullcrap. ALl the claims you see about ancient old world civilizations popping up in the middle of North America comes from two sources.

1) Hucksters out to make a sensationalist buck. "Finding" roman coins in Kansas, claims of pyramids in the Grand Canyon, that sort of thing.
or
2) Mormons faking shit in order to "prove" their religion. You'll find crap like Native American petroglyps that have the ten commandments in modern Hebrew defacing them, along with claims that this is "proof" of the ancient Israelites coming here.
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era veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. A rose red city, half as old as time
Something I read years ago.
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Vehl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. remarkable! nt
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-22-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fascinating, perhaps they reached North America even before the Vikings?
Thanks for the thread, Joanne.
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-10 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. The painting are so beautiful!
Lovely!
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