Private School Civility Gap

[mgc1961]

Education reform is all the rage these days.

It’s no longer just the weighty obsession of parents with few options scrambling to get a child into a better school. It has also become the “it” topic of the cocktail crowd, including many parents with children who have never seen the inside of a public school. “Waiting for Superman” is the new “An Inconvenient Truth.”

This new discussion centers on the achievement gap in public schools. It’s an intractable issue and needs as much attention as it’s getting. But a study released on Tuesday highlights another subject that’s much less discussed: let’s call it the private school civility gap, particularly at religious private schools and particularly among boys.

This is a not-so-little, not-so-secret, dirty little secret among the upper crust.

Do you want to complete this article? Yes? Then go to http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/opinion/30blow.html?_r=1&hp.

[ejpoeta]

1. as someone who attended both catholic school and public school in

elementary and high school I can tell you that while the public school kids I was around were bad, the catholic kids were worse. they were just more subtle and better at getting away with the stuff they did. It isn't sour grapes either because they treated me like I was a piece of crap because I got assistance to go to the catholic school. The kids whose parents owned the town went to that school and I was just a nobody who transferred buses and rode for an hour extra on the bus at least so that i could go to catholic school. You would think that if you all wear the same uniform they couldn't pick on you as bad, but they sure did. I didn't know who calvin klein was and that was a laugh riot. Seemed odd to me considering our white blouses looked the same as far as I could see.

[mgc1961]

2. A related, topical link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=214

[whathehell]

6. Did you

go to a "private" Catholic school?

I realize that they are all "private" when compared to public schools, but I ask because when I was in school in the 1960's there was "regular" catholic school and "private" catholic school, which cost more money, of cours.

I went to the "less private" one.

[ejpoeta]

9. i went to a private catholic school. my parents were catholic and had six kids.

not sure how many when to private catholic elementary, but the majority of us went to catholic high school which had tuition and everything. i know because i worked it off by cleaning out lockers and bathrooms. i set up and cleaned up after bingo too. now, notre dame was better though it had the same kids. there was a girl there who was jewish. they didn't make her participate but they made her sit through mass. i won't argue about the better education at the private school.... when i went back to public school in 3rd grade or was it 4th... i already had learned everything they were teaching in the public school. I went back to st joes in 8th grade and graduated from there and went on to notre dame. I always assumed they were private catholic school. st joes i think is the only parochial elementary school left in that town and notre dame is now straight private not catholic. it's weird seeing the convent gone. i don't know how anyone could afford to send their kid to one of these schools though i honestly have no idea how much it costs to send a kid there.

[BlueMTexpat]

17. I also attended both Catholic and public schools - in the 1950s and 1960s.

I learned in both systems. For me, the Catholic school system was good because I was clearly a "nerd" and my study skills were actually encouraged and appreciated. There were some things that were much better in the public system I attended, however, e.g., electives such as music, art and drama, where the education that I received was of a much higher caliber and depth. Ironically, those seem to be the electives that are among the first casualties of school financing.
Where I did find some prejudice was from some of the older nuns, who scorned me for not having had the full dose of Catholic schools (I only spent my last two years of secondary school at a Catholic high school). But most of those came round nicely once they realized how serious a student that I was. There is only one I remember with any animosity, and I later came to realize that she was truly a bitter person who was a borderline nutcase - and she would have been that no matter where she was or what religion she was. But she certainly did me no favors - much the contrary.

[yurbud]

3. a theory on the racial slurs angle: middle class kids in public schools

Might see expressing racist ideas as being low rent, and lowering themselves to the level of ignorant white trash. It's part of the fear of falling.

Kids in a private school probably feel more secure as members of the elite (even if they are not), and so feel more free to let it rip.

As someone who attended only public schools, I was shocked when I went to grad school at USC at the casual expression of not just racial slurs but racist ideas by my very wealthy classmates. Equally surprising was when I would tell people I had briefly been in the military, they would react like I just said I was a bedwetter or something. Class consciousness is alive and well at the top, its just convenient for them toi convince the rest of us it doesn't exist.

[ejpoeta]

10. the biggest problem with that for them is that their parents are well to do and while that gives the

a better chance of success considering better education and access to better colleges etc.... when they are 'elite' because their parents are it's probably harder for them when they fail. we didn't have much growing up so when i was on my own and had nothing it was nothing new for me. i didn't feel deprived or even realize what i was doing without so much because it was normal for me.

[yurbud]

11. when you fail in the upper middle class and above, you don't fall far: look at baby bush.

If middle middle class and below fail in business or a career, for the rest of our lives, we are ''the loser.''

[ejpoeta]

13. you are right in that your family is there to help you whereas when you are poor

and you fall, you end up in a hole that is hard to dig out of. i think i was referring to their inability to cope, but you are right... how many will have to suffer for their failures? probably not many.

[yurbud]

15. it is some consolation that even when they succeed, they may not measure up to parents or peers

Eventually, W will realize that history will judge his dad as a middling or better president and himself as the absolute worst.

[yurbud]

4. also, the more kids go to private schools, the less common knowledge of

Of history, science, etc, we have to appeal to political discourse.

If fundamentalist schools are teaching kids that Jesus rode dinosaurs and the founding fathers wanted to set up theocracy, there is essentially no knowledge for a publicly educated person to appeal to with them.

[donco6]

12. Things have changed so much in 40 years.

I went to Catholic school in the 60s and we didn't learn about any of that crap. Except for going to a short mass every morning, I barely remember much religion being taught at all.

[ejpoeta]

14. we went to mass, and i remember having a religion class. that was in high school though

and not elementary that i recall. and in that class i remember us learning things like cheating is a cancer....

[BlueMTexpat]

18. We only had one all-school Mass on Wednesdays, although we

would usually begin classes with a prayer, as I recall. Some girl students who boarded at a nearby Ursuline convent had to attend Mass there every morning, but it wasn't required for the rest of us. We were required to have one religion class every day every year. The school was also co-ed, but for our senior year, they segregated us into male-female groups to talk about things such as sex (mortal sin outside of marriage), divorce (a mortal sin), birth control (a mortal sin unless it was the rhythm method), abortion (a mortal sin in all cases), and the one that caused the most debate of all in class - always choosing the life of the newborn over that of the mother.
According to those teachings which obviously didn't take, I am a multiple mortal sinner (sex outside marriage, divorce and birth control). I did manage not to have an abortion (sheer luck and good birth control) and was fortunate enough never to have been in the last situation - either as newborn or as mother.
But I am very happily remarried and am also much happier not to be in thrall to any religion, especially one that considers women as fungible and disposable.

[mzmolly]

5. Good information for parents considering private vs. public school.

Thank you.

[Sanity Claws]

7. I don't know how much weight to give this article

It is based on self-reports of bullying, teasing, etc.
How do we know that both groups use the same words in the same way?

I can easily imagine a group of students who are living in a more hostile environment not categorizing something as bullying when a group of well-off privileged students may classify a behavior as bullying.

I think I'll take the article with a grain of salt. BTW, I am the product of Catholic schools and realize how sheltered I was when I got to college.

[Kind of Blue]

8. You said it, Sanity Claws.

A lot of this might depend on where the school is and the times. Most of the students at the Catholic high school and elementary I attended were working class folk. I think there were only 6 of us black kids at each grade level. The public and Catholic school kids hung out after school. Sheesh, we even had two Muslim girls (not related - one from Somalia, the other from Tanzania) in high school. Yes, Muslim - their parents were embassy people who wanted their children fully exposed to other religions.

Maybe it's more so in private schools nowadays in an age of outright intolerance of anything other. Most of our parents where young adults during the '60s and that may account for a lot of the Kumbayah I felt in the schools during the mid '70s. But I was incredibly sheltered, shook it off rather quickly though :D

[Name removed]

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[Incognitus Czar]

19. thank god for private schools

seriously, the public schools in my district sucked balls compared the private schools in my area.

As for being mean and insensitive, well, I was like that even before I started attending private (secular) school.

Don't know about the private religious ones.