If Tar Sands Happens: Game Over for the Climate

[Bill USA]

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/659107/if_tar_sands_happens%3A_game_over_for_the_climate/




Here's an informative debate on the Alberta tar sands issue between lead environmental activist Bill McKibbon and some clone from the Randroid Manhattan Institute:



JEFFREY BROWN: Bill McKibben, why these protests? What are -- what's the key problems you see with this project?

BILL MCKIBBEN,environmental activist/writer: You know, this has turned into the biggest civil disobedience action in the environmental movement in a generation.

And the reason is that this is -- this tar sands in Alberta is a big deal. It's the second largest pool of carbon on Earth, after the oil fields of Saudi Arabia. Jim Hansen of NASA, who was arrested today, really the world's foremost climate scientist, said -- as he was speaking this morning, said, if we go ahead and begin tapping these unconventional energy sources, of which the tar sands are the biggest example, it is -- and here I quote - "essentially game over for the climate."


(more)

[tabasco]

1. Well, if Bill McKibben says so,

it must be true.

[RoccoR5955]

12. Dr. Hansen actually knows all the science...

I would believe him sooner than I would Mc Kibben. Not that I wouldn't believe Mc Kibben, just that Hansen has all the degrees, and has done a lot of research.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Here's THE chance of a lifetime!

We too can witness the destruction of our climate......

and of us.

[Ohio Joe]

3. I pretty much suspect we are fucked regardless

Shit... We still have people in complete denial that climate change is even happening.

[mahina]

4. Sorry to tell you but it's game over anyway. However, that doesn't mean we are off the hook

to do all we can to minimize the impact.

Sir Nicholas Stern has a great audio on the Oxford Podcasts on itunes Blueprint for a Safer Planet: Three reasons you don't need to worry about climate change. It's a must hear for all the climate change deniers, but they will never hear it. Unless we start telling them....

[Drale]

5. I don't know if I'd go that far but

if that pipeline is build it would really put a hurt on the environment but all would not be lost, things can still change.

[Bill USA]

10. I don't think it's a question of whether the pipeline will get a leak. It's just a matter of when &

how big it will be. OF course there is also the question of how long it will fuck up the environment where the spill will be ..10 yrs, 20 yrs, 40 yrs?

[dgibby]

14. That pipeline will be built across the largest freshwater aquifer

in North America. The consequences of a leak would be disastrous for the entire nation.

[mahina]

6. You cracked me up..."some clone from the Randroid Institute"...we have to laugh

even though the situation is so dire.

Thanks for that. I feel the same by the way.

It's an interesting question...how do we build dialogue on this critical issue with people who have no interest in the future, or future generations, or acting responsibly?

The only approach that I have had any success with is the biblical bit about taking care of God's creation.

But I can barely choke it down.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PuffedMica]

9. If greenhouse gasses continue to exacerbate climate charge like we are seeing now

We will not have enough agriculture to feed the population
Rise in sea level will ruin our coastlines and interfere with overseas shipping
Our infrastructure will continue to deteriorate at an increasing rate
And the people who manage to survive will find themselves unemployed

[sharp_stick]

8. So basically

the complaint from Hansen isn't so much about the pipeline or even the tarsands development but worry over the fact that we'll no longer put an emphasis on alternate energy because oil from the tarsands will make us complacent?

[Bill USA]

11. We really are out of time. We need to commit to renewables and alternative energy along with

investing in efficiency improvements (best bang for the buck) RIGHT NOW. I think that's what he is thinking.

Anything that puts off what needs to be done is like diving off a cliff (or perhaps walking off.... in a daze). The permfrost is thawing right now and it will take decades of cooler weather to turn that around. As the permafrost thaws it releases methane which has 23 times the heat trapping capacity of CO2. Each year of warming is adding to the area of permafrost that is thawing.

[midnight]

13. K&R

[Moostache]

15. Sorry, but "protests" are considered cute and irrelevant by the PTB...

You want proof of that?

How many MILLIONS marched against the Iraq invasion?
How well did THAT turn out?

How many MILLIONS of others have been screwed over by the banksters and their gangster capitalism?
How many of THOSE CEOs and other bastards are doing time for ANYTHING?

How many THOUSANDS have expressed outrage and horror over torture?
Well, how many of its perp's are serving time?

Face it...unless we are willing to cut the head off of the snake - REMOVE $$$$$ ENTIRELY FROM THE BODY POLITIC AND MAKE IT A PUBLICLY FUNDED ENTERPRISE AND A CAPITAL OFFENSE TO INTERFERE WITH BRIBES - then these and ANY OTHER protests are a complete waste of time. Politicians no longer fear their constituents as long as the money tap is flowing...and truth be told, as long as their is a cushy lobbying job on the other end regardless of tenure or current clout.

Its been "game over" for a long time.

[katty]

16. we are out of time and this is just one more insane big$$ + a F/U

to the environment from company=governments that are sucking up every last resource...they ain't changing their MO ever.