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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:14 AM
Original message
Just finished The Price of Loyalty
There are no words to describe how frightening and depressing this book is.

You know everything in it. But it doesn't help. It will make you sick. It's all about power. They don't care about any of us.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. It's a great book though
I just finished it too.

Best thing about it--it gives you a private view into White House affairs, probably better than any book to date.

One fact that wasn't emphasized in the book: Cheney had to fire O'Neill, because that tough-talkin' president of ours is too much of a wuss.

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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:42 AM
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2. And just who would "they" be?
"They" is also among some Dems I fear.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The White House inner circle
Cheney, Rove, Card, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld

The people who are *really* running the country
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Enraged_Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm about 3/4 of the way done
It is about the slowest read I've ever had in my life. I manage probably five pages a day. Not because it's boring (it most definitely isn't). It's because it is so damn depressing I can hardly stand it.

George W. Bush is, without a doubt, the dumbest "president" that ever lived, maybe even among the world's stupidest "leaders" ever. I give him credit for no brains whatsoever, yet reading this book, it STILL shocks and surprises me the sh** that falls out of his mouth.
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economic justice Donating Member (776 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. It IS a depressing read
I picked it up and didn't get very far before I thought, "wow." So, this is all you need to be president of the United States? Our Dems TOWER over this guy in every department.
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Pax Argent Donating Member (350 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. I found it informative, but not really depressing
I've puzzled over why the Bush Administration has charted the course that it has, full out, for the past three years. In 2000 they barely wrested a victory for Bush while he was pretending to be a centrist, and then we went on Mr. Bush's wild right-wing ride. Other Republican presidents had at least been moderately reasonable. What happened here?

The answer is surprisingly not that they are highly political (which they are), but that they are as stolidly dogmatic as they are. O'Neill's book shows how whole vistas of thoughts and solutions are dismissed out-of-hand while potential hazards are completely ignored because Bushco will not "negotiate with themselves".

The reason that I am not depressed is that while O'Neill has become unwilling to discuss his new book anymore, the book itself stands. Dean's attack on Greenspan the other day was probably predicated on O'Neill's book. This is prime ammunition for the Dems because it was written by a man who was making his bones in the Republican machine while Bush was dodging his obligations in the Texas Air National Guard. He can't be dismissed as a left-wing hack.

Give it time, the truth will come out.

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. it is definately worth the read
and very informative. I agree with everything else said here. And yes, it does answer many questions. The only two things the admin was interested in from day one were tax cuts and war with Iraq. Within a few days (maybe weeks) of taking office, memos were crossing O'Neill's desk on who they were going to give the contracts to to divide up the Iraqi oil fields!

I was surprised, not sure why, how involved Greenspan is. I guess I always pictured him as in an ivory tower someplace making decisions apart from the White House. But he's there at all the meetings. Early on Greenspan said if the tax cuts don't have triggers (to the deficit) then they are irresponsible. But he wouldn't say it "out loud." He is just a whore and a shill for the GOP. He wouldn't budge with Clinton.

O'Neill wouldn't go out quietly either. They asked him to say he was quitting to spend more time with his family and O'Neill refused. They asked him to put off his announcement. He refused. Bush wanted to meet with him the day after Cheney fired him. O'Neill refused saying it would be a waste of time.

The book talks about the meeting which has been described in the press where Bush was saying "haven't we already given the rich tax cuts?" It was the ONLY meeting where Bush was engaged at all which means the impression left by those who don't read it is that somehow Bush cared. Hogwash. They had already decided to fire O'Neill by that time, the meeting was just a show for him (I think.) Or to set him up to disagree with Bush to give them an excuse to fire him.

The thing I remember hating about O'Neill (before I read the book) was him saying publically that the economy was not as bad off as everyone else was saying. I thought it was propaganda to appease us. According to the book, O'Neill was fighting the second round of tax cuts since at that point in time the admin was saying they needed tax cuts to stimulate the economy. O'Neill argued that the second round shouldn't happen because the economy didn't need that kind of stimulous but if it did it should be to the lower income brackets because they would go out and spend the money which would provide some stimulous to business. (Another chilling part was when O'Neill was arguing with Cheney about the second tax cut. He and Cheney had known each other since they were boys. O'Neill said tax cuts would be disasterous and asked why they were doing it. Cheney said: We won the midterms. It's our due. <shudder> That's when O'Neill realized that Cheney was hopeless.)

He also talks at lenght about how they could never know what Bush wanted. There was no guidance (on issues besides tax cuts and Iraq.) You had to guess what Bush wanted. The problem is that Bush is disengaged, completely disinterested in government or governing or policy or the country or us. He really doesn't care what we think (or want or need.) Because of that the cabal has taken over, Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz. He thinks Powell cared and tried to talk about policy.

As to Iraq he said no one ever said why. It was just how. There was never any discussion.

I know that "the other side" feels the same way about Clinton. That he was just about power. (They also said Clinton governed by polls, Bush could give a crap about the polls.) No wonder Americans don't vote. We all see the other side as pure evil.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. They weren't just dividing up the spoils in Iraq prior to being in office.
Edited on Sun Jan-25-04 03:04 AM by Dover
They were dividing up the U.S. and the world!

The proposal by some conservatives to privatize and auction off the national parks, for instance, leaked out during Bush's candidacy...but it was quickly dismissed as an extreme idea and that Bush was simply being open to all kinds of counsel. Actually this idea was seeded back during Bush I presidency. And the press just let it die. (In truth, I'm not sure anyone actually believed they'd put the national parks up for auction...it really DID seem far fetched).
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm still reading it
can't get past more than a few pages at a time before I have to put the book down or start throwing things...

wish we could make this required reading for all voters
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