"Passion" is in France now and I can tell you : that's a cheerless shit !

[BonjourUSA]

Historic approximations and basic meanings, all of that into a bloody Christian sauce.

I am not Christian (or anything else), but if I was I would ask myself why this movie doesn't include the Christian message of hope : the resurrection.


Other point : Would I learn any more about French resistance if I watch a 2-hour movie with 1:30 of tortures ?
Except if the director wants me to hate German people and uses the word "German" instead of "Nazi".

[DrWeird]

1. It's not what Christ said that's important.

It's about how he died.

[devilgrrl]

2. They should make a movie about St. Francis of Assisi

He was good people...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. As a young Catholic kid, I loved his story

[gorrister]

42. they did...

back in 1972. It was called Brother Sun, Sister Moon

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0069824

I've never seen it, though,

[DemBones DemBones]

48. but it wasn't violent, so no one noticed.

People are really hung up (pun intended) about Christ's Crucifixion and the torture that went before. Some want Christianity to be all nice, comforting words about God and love, which is not all of what Christianity is.

"Brother Sun, Sister Moon" portrays Francis as a bit of a dippy flower child, unfortunately, when he was a rebel and a mystic.

[Fight_n_back]

27. So what you are saying

is that if Jesus had said "Blessed are the gluttons for they shall spew dessert across the earth" instead of blessed are the peacemakers

and of he said "Take a whiff, these are my farts" instead of "take eat, this is my body"

but was still executed in the way that hundreds of thousands of other convicts were exectuted, you are saying he would still be the main man of the pasty Northern European?

Somehow I don't think you really believe that.

[Neecy]

3. good point

Without the importance of the resurrection, the movie is reduced to a grotesque snuff film.

Be glad you aren't here, as this Jesus stuff is being pushed everywhere. Last night the Food Network featured a 1 hour program on biblical food. No merde.

[FarLeftRage]

4. Good Point

about not to include the resurrection...

Perhaps ol' mel did not want to be optimistic now...

[kera]

5. this is an issue of first amendment, nobody is forced to

see the movie to begin with, and it is just a movie

second because there is no hope for the time being


third we should be more concerned with a reality on the ground now days: the butchery in Palestine ,more relevant

[tishaLA]

8. How is it first amendment

...especially when one sees it in France?

But it is just a film. And not a terribly good one, IMHO.

[kera]

14. do you think first amendment

stops at the US borders?


St Peter had done the same thing without short of special effects though

[tishaLA]

16. Yes I do.

The first amendment is in the United States Constitution (i.e., it is an American invention). So it does, indeed, stop at the border. Or have we become so imperious that we think our laws, concepts, and constitution apply to every nation?

[kera]

18. What I meant Tisha

is that first amendment exists also in other countries and even before it was spelled out in the Us constitution, on the other hand , the UN declaration of Human rights can apply in this instance. Imperial did you say? I am sort of countryless

[Djinn]

20. would you apply the same

"if you don't like it don't watch it" theory to a movie David Irving might one day make denying the Jewish Holocaust?

Or one that David Duke might commission showing that slavery really wasn't such a big deal?

It's not about ME choosing not to watch it - it's about the perpetuation of myths and the SCAREY amount of people who insist that "this is how it is in the BIble" like that (a) means anything in a historical sense (b) is even possible the gospels CONRADICT each other)

Yes everyone has a right not to see it - but I beleive that your constitution also allows people the right to say it's a piece of right wing fundie anti-semtic propaganda - and kind of mentally sick to boot!

[kera]

24. you have the right to think so

My concern though is that a society where people are susceptible to be swayed so easily by a flick and not able to think on their feet, is the problem

The intelligentsia bears some responsibility for allowing a soulless capitalism bent on producing robots consumers , digestive tubs, takes over and pervade culture as it sees it fit for its purpose.

[Djinn]

26. would you

defend the hypothetical David Duke or David Irving movie in the same way??

[kera]

29. all point of views enjoy the same right to free speech

the most convincing discourse can win "hearts and minds"
of course I am aware that my approach is idealistic, for the media drums are in the hands of the those who have an interest in shaping public opinion, money has no humanity

We got left only our eyes for good tears until the objectives conditions are met for a a revolution in spite of the brainwashing

[TankLV]

22. Ahhh, ignorance must be bliss, I see.

"First Ammendment" rights in another country. That's just too rich!

And, my dear Kera, just what does "First Ammendment" refer to - hmmmmm?

SOMEBODY needs to go back to school for a little learnin'!

[not systems]

28. By definition it does.

:crazy:

[SemperEadem]

40. well, when they make a movie on how savagely

xtians were treated back then, et al--dipping them in wax and burning them as torches to the city, using them as beast bait in the gladiatorial games, then we will see just how the sanguineous Christians will feel about religious portrayals and images being put forth on the big screen.

[BonjourUSA]

11. You're right, it's only a two thousand years old story, written...

the first time sixty years after the events by men who didn't see them but only heard about. Even they don't agree each together about these same events. Meil is able to be a new apostle with the same chance to be right

[Jacobin]

6. It's mostly sado-masochistic garbage, from what I hear.

I've heard people call it the Jesus Chainsaw Massacre Movie.

[BonjourUSA]

7. A return to the worst sacrificial Christian tradition

[Jacobin]

9. Many of these mythical spiritual cults, like christianity

have blood sacrifices, killing, and torture as the basis for their belief system.

We criticize cannibals, but in church on Sunday we are told to "eat the bread, body of christ and drink the wine, his blood"

It shouldn't be too surprising, I suppose that such ghastly, obscene bloodlust as depicted in the movie wouldn't be a huge draw for the "faithful"

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

13. But you haven't been to the movie, have you?

[Djinn]

21. I Have

and while it was bloody hard NOT to walk out and to keep my lunch down I did so so that I could respond to people who use the "you havn't seen it" line.

I'm an atheist personally but there's no surprise that Jewish people (amongst others) find this movie a scary propisition

[Jacobin]

43. No. I've only seen a few trailers of Jesus

writhing on the ground, covered from head to toe with blood and being beaten to a pulp.

I understand from a friend who saw it, that the massacre lasted about 45 minutes and was in full technicolor, with close up shots and everything.

Hey, if it turns you on, go for it. Not my cup of tea.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. The film is "The Passion of The Christ" and that's why it doesn't include

Christ's Resurrection. Like anyone else, Jesus lived a life that can be divided into several chapters. This film is about one chapter of the Life of Christ and there is an assumption of sorts that audiences have some familiarity with the other chapters.

If Gibson had made a movie called "The Passion and the Resurrection" (or "The Sermon on the Mount and the Passion," or "Christ's Ministry and Passion") then those who complain "It doesn't include_________" might have a point. But he delivered on his promise to make a film about Christ's Passion in painful detail, too painful for many.

People opposed to Christianity in general or Catholicism in particular will not like this film. Christians who don't want to deal with the unpleasant realities of Christ's Passion will be unhappy with this film. Those who want to compare Christ's sacrifice to the French Resistance are out on a limb of their own choosing.

Why are people who are predisposed to dislike the film spending time and money on it?

[BonjourUSA]

12. I don't compare anything !!!!

I just want to question myself on an insidious way.

Why ? ?? An intellectual curiosity. And to make my own opinion and not to say too many bullshits

[Solomon]

15. How all of a sudden is Christ's "passion" is limited to him dying?

Is that all to his passion? It's preposterous. Why not call it what it is? "The Death of Jesus", or "The Crucifixion", or the "Worst Whippin You Ever Saw In Your Life".

[doubles]

32. The "Passion" refers to the 12 hours before the crucifixion... nt

[Djinn]

23. so we can counteract

garbage like "People opposed to Christianity in general or Catholicism in particular will not like this film"

what I'm opposed to is the pretence that THIS IS what happened nobody knows what took place - even the authors of the gospels don't make that claim per se and they couldn't agree with each other.

I have a problem with the dumbing down of history - Mel's little sado-masochistic snuff film is part of that

[DemBones DemBones]

38. But you can't counteract my statement,

because in fact you are an atheist, as you yourself stated in an earlier post, with an apparent angry attitude toward Christianity, i.e., "opposed to Christianity in general."

Instead of trying to refute my statement, you simply label it "garbage." So much for reasoned discourse!

You sat through the film but you'd made up your mind what it would be like before you even bought your ticket. You wanted to hate the film to fuel your negative opinion of Christianity. It's evident that you got your money's worth on that score, but sitting through the film gave you neither the ability nor the right to say what the film meant to others who saw it.

[BonjourUSA]

41. To be Christian or to not be that is not the question

Like anybody, the Christians are able to make bullshits even about their own religion.

I use my right to give my opinion about this film like I would do for any else;

This movie is artistically very bad, historically idiot (ex : Pilate is a caricature) and false and defends a dangerous doctrine.

I persist and sign, it's a shit

[DemBones DemBones]

46. Whether or not one is Christian is not the question.

One's ability to fairly judge a film with a Christian theme is the question and a very legitimate one. No one is impartial toward this film because of its subject, but many are not even making an effort to be objective about it.

If someone made a film about a conservative Republican Party hero, such as Ronald Reagan, it would be difficult for most of us, as liberal Democrats, to have an unbiased attitude toward the film. It's the same way with this film -- attitudes one takes into the film will influence one's opinion. You may call it "a shit" but there are sure to be other people in France who think it is an artistically successful film that operates within reasonable historical perameters.

What is most unfortunate is that many of the people who are highly critical of the film seem to know little about Christian teaching, and are not even familiar with the terminology of Christianity, but feel quite free to condemn a religion they have little real knowledge of. We don't see this sort of attack at DU against Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc., and I'm glad we don't, but I want the mindless attacks on Christianity to cease.

[mouse7]

30. Why do people watch Jason and Freddie Kreuger?

Nobody wants to be a victim of a serial killer. Very few want to be serial killer. Yet Jason and Freddie Kreuger score big box office. Why? The same reason people slow down and rubber-neck at traffic accidents. It's the spectacle of slaughter.

Mel Gibson figured out a way to do Jesus Christ "Freddie Krueger-style," and scored big time because of it. One part Jesus, one part Friday the 13th. Mix it in a bowl, you have slaughter you can bring the church youth group to.

Of course it made big money.

[leesa]

17. Fundies aren't known for optimism. They believe in the nastiest God

you could possibly imagine who exists to trip you up and punish you. It really is a hateful God they have. It's like the took the worst of parenting models and that became their vindictive hateful Creator (parent)God.

[BonjourUSA]

31. It's just a new item into the American religious snafu... One more.

[doubles]

33. Frankly, I am offended by this thread's subject title...... nt

[Stephanie]

34. Oh please

This is a longtime DU poster who lives in France. The wording is slightly off, but it's his personal opinion based on his viewing of the film. What is so freaking offensive?

[thebigidea]

35. how dare they mock a Mel Gibson film!

personally, I get offended when people mock "Beyond Thunderdome"

[BonjourUSA]

36. You're offended !

Isn't "Passion" only a simple movie ?...

[Oddman]

37. Mel's filming a new movie -

"The Passion of the Pedophile Priest" - should be a big hit with the kids!


The Ape Man Meets Jane

[DemBones DemBones]

39. A new record -- 36 posts before

Apeman gets in a dig about pedophile priests. Pedophilia is a serious crime, whether committed by priests, rabbis, ministers, teachers, coaches, or family members (statistics show children are most often molested by a member of their own family) and deserves our attention, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the movie "The Passion of The Christ." Of course, comments about pedophile priests have absolutely nothing to do with most of the threads where they show up.

It's sad to see DUers whose automatic response to anything related to Catholicism is "pedophile priests," just like FReepers whose automatic response to anything related to Bill Clinton is "oral sex." Such limited points of view suggest a need to be better informed and less intolerant.

[Posinegativeman]

44. Good question. Christ is overrated for sure

Why did France allow this load of fiction into their country?

[tishaLA]

45. I just read Le Monde's review of this flick

what a hoot. Their review made the overwhelmingly negative reviews in the US seem like roses were thrown at Mel's feet.

[Generic Other]

47. The Jesus snuff film is an incredible turn on. I masturbated to it

Love that blood and gore. Man, it was a spitirtual experience, put me in an endorphin charged rush that left me yearning to inflict pain on others.

Ah, sexy stuff that! Better than bombing Baghdad!

(don't care whether you think I'm being sarcastic or not)