Would you live in such a society?

[ecstatic]

Poll question: Would you live in such a society?

There's a community in Mexico that is based on the principles of Behavior Analysis (invented by famous psychologist Skinner); their ideas seem to match closely with many liberal ideas. They are looking for new members!

Los Horcones was founded in 1973 by a group of 7 people, former teachers and psychologists from the Center for Children with Behavioral Deficits.

Objective: To cooperate for the common good necessarily implies having common objectives, communitarian goals.

Government: Takes into consideration each single member of the society and not just the majority like democracy or only a few like in totalitarianism.Personocracy is thus a democracy extended to each and everyone of the members of the society. Personocracy empowers the individual, the person, not the abstract majority.

Economy: All members participate in production. As soon as children can help in the work, they start participating in simple tasks. Women and men have equal work opportunities.

Members don't need to carry or use money because they do not need to pay for anything. All community members are the owners of the existing property (money,* land, houses, cars, furniture, tools and equipment, clothes, everything).

Cooperative Walden Economy promotes the rational consumption of goods and services. Economic practices are arranged so people make rational use of natural resources. Pro-ecological practices are implemented in all areas, for example: the use of solar energy, the reuse of water, preservation of the indigenous flora and fauna, recycling things, etc. Communal property is a pro-environmental practice because it significantly reduces consumerism.

In Los Horcones money is a communal property -income sharing. All money earned by members individually or communally is kept in common. The coordinators of the economy area are in charge of keeping records (accounting) and calling meetings where members decide on how the money will be spent and saved. Members do not earn wages, however we can all make reasonable personal purchases when we wish (members are free to take money from the common account whenever they choose).

Religion: At Los Horcones individual beliefs are allowed and respected, so long as they do not interfere with the objectives of this community, which are; cooperation, sharing, non-violence and equality.* Members can practice their own religion and the community respects this.

http://www.loshorcones.org.mx/index.html

[w13rd0]

1. I stayed in a community with a similiar structure...

...about a decade ago for a while. It was an interesting experience, definately not for everybody, but on a smallish scale (communities of less than 500 persons), fairly workable...

[ecstatic]

4. was it in this country? nt

[bobthedrummer]

17. All over the land!

[w13rd0]

18. yes

it was in Chicago

[redqueen]

2. YES!

This is the future. I welcome it!

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. Post apocalyptic future maybe

After about 6 billion people die. Other than that, it is only workable in tiny constructs.

[Lisa0825]

3. I read about that a while back.

Very interesting. But I don't think I could handle *that much* sharing.

[ecstatic]

6. My thoughts exactly!

I was raised in a selfish family and society. I am addicted to lavish living. Their society sounds great and maybe even ideal--I'm just not sure I could give up my current life.

[nborders]

5. In the words of the all wise Homer Simpson

In theory Communisim works. . . think about it.

:)

~n

[Egalitarian]

7. I have much respect for

the folks who are experimenting with intentional communities. I'm confident that in many ways many of them are forging the methods and thinking that will ultimately become our common ways and means.

For anyone interested in more on IC's as most refer to themselves visit www.ic.org

[BostonTeaParty04]

12. I was looking at that site a while back....

They have advertisements for ICs all over the place.

My general conclusion after reading about the individual communities and looking at some of their websites was.... These seem to be an 'alternative' form of the rich white peoples' 'gated communities'. Bring your $100K nestegg and YOU TOO can be part of our little family!

By and far, the ones who are starting out require a person to be financially self-sufficient for a few years.

Or, they are farms where people allow people to come, and many times pay, to be able to work on their farms for a while. =cheap educated labor!

Basically, intentional communities are just as EXCLUSIVE as a country club... but I am sure birkenstocks are all the rage! lol

Human nature, we can't escape it.

[ecstatic]

15. True but

I honestly don't believe that that is the goal of this particular community. Anyone is welcome to join. "We welcome all people who want to live at Los Horcones work for the common good*,who want to replace their own individualistic and competitive behaviors by altruistic and cooperative ones."

[BostonTeaParty04]

8. I voted no. I think the founding fathers would agree with me.

There is this unquantifiable element in the human psyche and spirit that absolutely guarantees power struggles and deception. You can try to create utopian environments, but don't be surprised when human nature rears its ugly head.

I would put money up to bet that there is a hiearchy of POWER in that community and that less powerful people are forced to keep their mouths shut or face ridicule for rocking the boat.

Tell me about any group of humans where that is not the case....

[ecstatic]

9. hmmm....

Also I wonder if these new intentional communities aren't simply glorified cults... But they claim to have a personacracy government so I don't know...

[BostonTeaParty04]

19. I never got the impression that they were like CULTS....

Not really...

The focus really seems to be on lifestyle and activities rather than on thought (from what little I read).

I did have an email correspondence with a man who had lived in like 15 different communities over the last few years - trying them out, he said. He had some interesting stories. He never did find an ideal place for himself. For one, he wanted to work in the outside 'real' world... and that was frowned upon. So I guess that is kind of cultish "staying separate" from the rest of the whole wide world.

I queried some people on a message board about why there wasn't a GREATER push by ICs to be models for EVERYONE by the simple task of working in tandem with the surrounding communities, by offering an actual SERVICE to people at large (like the homeless), or even by working as a group on political goals.

I only received a few replies, and they were all, "oh you will want to look into the Catholic Workers communities. They are about service to humankind."

And I wondered, why would you want to create a totally self-sufficient and sustainable lifestyle and NOT share it with everyone? That's where I got my conclusion that these ICs are nothing more than an alternative form of 'gated communities' enjoyed by the White HAVES in our society.....

[bobthedrummer]

20. They are experiments, that's what some cults are, don't forget that

George W. Bush aka The War President employs mercenaries as part of his war on terrorism-mercenaries have provided human experimental subjects and even run some of the "clinical trials" (Dyn Corp) for decades.

Cults are a good example of mind control experimentation, Truth Hurts A Lot, on that I think we can agree. Many political prisoners have been discredited throught the abuse of the mental health profession in the US, some after having been non-consensual human experimental subjects for "national security" conducted by outsourced operatives.

Isn't it amusing that many of the survivor's of political repression complain about government harassment, when in fact it's mercenaries employed by spooks that they should be focused on-IF you believe crazy people talking the same basic story about the government doing horrible things, it is too large to contain now, imho and experience.

MKULTRA type research never stopped, it went inter-generational via spook financing of private researchers tied to mercenaries and fronts.
Cults are often renegade spooks with higher-tech or superior control mechanisms, imho and experience.

[ihaveaquestion]

10. Sounds good, but not in Mexico.

I need to live in a much cooler place, like Washington, Oregon or N. Calif.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. On a small-scale yes, but not on a national level

Just not sure this can be done for millions or billions of people at once without corruption setting in.

[ecstatic]

13. curious about other "no" votes

Did you vote "No" due to concerns over the low population, communism, living in Mexico, misuse of power, the idea of sharing, the labor policies, etc.... Is our current democracy/Republic form of government superior to that of Los Horcones?

[shanti]

16. i voted no

because i like my privacy way too much to live communally.

[Vladimir]

23. As a socialist

I voted no because I do not see how this 'personocracy' or completely communal sharing of resources can work on a large scale. And the low population I guess... I am interested in large-scale political solutions, not escapism.

[sui generis]

14. It's hard to conceive it working well in practice

among a lot of people. We have an innate sense of "fairness" that means if one individual is earning proportionally more than another individual that we feel we should have access to more resources. Similarly, if one person has a need to use more resources, say, a long-term illness or disability, the rest of the community may become resentful. What are the enforcements in such a society? Expulsion?

[Zorra]

21. I live in Mexico, and live my life

with a focus on making rational use of resources, (ie solar energy, water regulation, non-packaged natural food, no necessity to frequently drive a vehicle, respecting the natural environment, etc.). 2 of my goals in living this way are to reduce my consumerism (I ultimately decided to move here in protest of the Bu$h selection and to no longer support the "establishment" because of that selection), protection of the environment, and the amazingly low cost of living simply. Somewhat like the folks apparently do in Los Horcones. But I do not do this communally. I'm not sure if I could. But....

Thank you for posting this article. I would like to visit Los Horcones, and was unaware of its existence before today. I think it would be nice if I could live in a community of seemingly like-minded people.

[ecstatic]

22. wow, that's cool

I applaud your courage. I'd definitely like to visit Los Horcones sometime soon. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like I'll ever get the time to just drop everything and leave.

[kayell]

25. I lived in a community similar to this a "few" years ago

It was based originally on the same Walden II model, although was no longer following the hard-core behavior mod (like the "Skinner" boxes). It sounds like much of the other principles ie: cooperation, sharing, non-violence and equality are the same.

My experience did not turn out all that well for a variety of reasons. None the less, the idea of community is appealing, and I might consider it again under different circumstances.

Good things: The place where I lived was definately NOT a cult. There really was great equality, although some people abused the work system, most people followed it. It was very nice living where there was no advantage to having more things than others. The country setting was beautiful.

Bad things: The lack of privacy was tough to deal with. It sometimes felt like living in a 70 person disfunctional family. Sometimes I really wanted to get away, and because of where we were located, it wasn't real practical. People still will have all the usual petty arguments, no matter how idealistic there intentions. This can seem harder when your aims are very high. You see the same people at breakfast, work, play, meetings, everywhere, all day long, all night long. A new person is MAJOR excitement.

Part of my problem with the place was because the community I was at was going through a very rough period in it's history at the same time that I joined. And I also went through a bout of depression fairly soon after joining. The community was not in a good position to deal with my problems, and I was in a terrible place to deal with their problems.

I might try again, somewhere else, under different circumstances. For me I would want more outside world contact, ability to either keep an outside job, or more control over starting my own onsite business, and I would want to know more of the people for longer before joining a community.

Most communities like this require a visiting period (the one I joined was 3 weeks). 3 weeks seems like a lot of time, but may not actually be enough time to really get an idea of a communities interactions. You may want to do some followup visits.

[AlienGirl]

26. I much prefer communal living to single living

But right now, my commune is only four people. I'd like it to be about six or eight.

A larger commune, twenty or more people, seems to become more like a small town than an extended family; I prefer the extended-family model.

Tucker

[TahitiNut]

27. Sounds like the same 'social contract' as a marriage & family.

:shrug: