Why do I keep hearing negative things about Kerry's voice?

[glarius]

Almost daily, I hear some "pundit" tear into John Kerry because of his voice....What is this nonsense all about?.....The man has a very compelling voice, in my opinion...You want to listen to what he says because of his voice...And when he talks, he actually forms coherent sentences with understandable ideas....Also he does display a sense of humour, which his detractors deny.....I'm serious....I'm really puzzled by this silly emphasis on his voice....I even hear Democrats putting him down because of his voice....Am I alone in this?

[flowomo]

1. A candidate is the sum of all his assets...

and as a public speaking instructor, I would say that Kerry has a weak voice... and he uses it poorly (bad cadences, rising finishes). We can agree that is irrelevant to how the man would govern... but it is an issue for him as a candidate. I find him generally unpleasant to listen to.

[TexasProgresive]

5. What's your professional opinion of *'s cadences? n/t

[flowomo]

8. poor extemporaneously, but effective when well prepared

[glarius]

12. When I've heard him extemporaneously I've been impressed with his

ability to express himself well....I think you are way off base...

[flowomo]

14. strictly a matter of opinion... and I have no quarrel with yours

[Lisa]

16. I find I can really tell if * has been practicing ...

Though he seems to sound most confident and spontaneous when he's talking about something he really cares about (like tax cuts, or making fun of other people!).

This may be why he often inserts himself into the proceedings, e.g. "I didn't like it one bit", even if it sounds out of place. He's such an egotist that he can't work himself up about an issue unless he personalizes it.

[flowomo]

19. His post 9/11 speech was excellent (and much practiced),,,,

but his recent press conference and one-on-one with Russert (was it Russert?) was extemp and horrible by all accounts.

[Lisa]

25. it's kind of funny ...

Karen Hughes knows that Bush does best with short, simple words and concepts -- she encourages the "cowpoke" attitude, because it's a way of keeping him consistent and "on message". Plus, if he decides to ad-lib, staying "in character" might actually keep him from babbling on too much. (One can do worse than emulating Gary Cooper.)

She goes over his speeches and edits them accordingly. However, Michael Gerson often writes flowery, poetic passages which (because they have religion in them) are very appealing to Bush. Now, there are times when Georgie fancies himself to be thoughtful and mature -- even he is struck at times by the dignity of his surroundings -- and being kind of like human tofu (influenced by the last person he talked to) he seems to oscillate between these two visions.

I'd appreciate your feedback on this, Flowomo -- I think he actually does okay on the Gerson style, as long as he doesn't try to get too complicated. It's when he hasn't gotten the imagery clear in his mind, or is distracted, that it starts to fall apart, because he isn't used to thinking that way -- or using those kinds of words. As you say, sometimes it works (his "blue sky" speech after the attacks) and sometimes it just goes flat.

I'm not an expert, by any means ... I just have to do a lot of public speaking as part of my job, and because I don't like it much, I have to resort to all kinds of tricks to keep myself interested and able to "perform". So I take a somewhat professional interest in how Bush does it -- though in my case the problem isn't feeling bored and superior to the rest of the room -- quite the opposite. (I'm usually petrified, plus I know I have to explain difficult stuff to people who may not be prepared and often aren't interested.)

[flowomo]

30. These are different matters than "voice," of course...

which is where this thread started. I think his voice is ok. As for the effectiveness of his delivery -- he can be very good (as we agree on that 9/11 address). Whether it's short sentences, or more lengthy, elegant stuff, if he's well prepared, he can perform the script (which makes him dangerous as an opponent). However, in ordinary conversation, he's much more inclined to the clipped, colloquial style -- no elegance or style in phrasing. So much in speaking depends upon the writing -- much of JF Kennedy's best stuff was written by Sorenson. Kerry is in Bob Shrum's hands now. The candidate's job is mostly to execute the script well. Bush can do it on occasion -- Kerry hasn't had the big moment yet -- the Democratic convention will be his golden moment. We can only hope he rises to the occasion. And I'm not saying he can't.

[Lisa]

33. Bush focused and prepared is dangerous ...

I totally agree! And even if he's not word-perfect, if he knows the key stuff, he CAN manage to charm his way though. This is probably one reason why he managed to get through two college degrees. To drag in another analogy, there are technically-perfect musicians who are less popular than sloppy colleagues who smile winningly at the right time.

What he's saying doesn't make as big an impression as the way he delivers it ... Rove actually stated that, about his guy, and we should remember that.

Some people like the "clipped and colloquial" style, because they automatically assume that the speaker is being honest, and is treating them as an equal. We know with Bush that neither of these may be true, but if it's part of a consistent persona, it takes a prolonged stress or a big surprise to break through that and get him to blow his top or show a crack in the facade. (Ann Richard tried to get him to do this during the governor debates, and he hung in there ... even his mom was surprised.)

[flowomo]

34. Believe me, people serious about electing Kerry (like me)....

do not misunderestimate Bush's skills. And the longer he practices that "consistent persona" you mention... the tougher he gets to beat.

[Lisa]

37. misunderestimate ... cute!

There are times when I wonder if the elaborate "cowboy" charade is just as much to keep HIM entertained and in character, as it is to create that image in the minds of the spectators.

I'd better quit now, before I start thinking about postmodernism and Baudrillard.

[flowomo]

38. Right! Been fun exchanging ideas with you!

and watch out for that Baudrillard

[TexasProgresive]

41. Thanks to all for your responses.

I have real difficulty in separating my dislike of the man and his abilities. We certainly underestimated him here in Texas. No one I know thought he could be elected governor - much less twice and, not it your wildest dreams, president. Oh well, 2 out of 3 not bad, since he was never elected president.

[scrotim]

43. that post-9/11 speech was "excellent" only by GWB standards

I never understood why people claimed it was so "Churchillian."

[glarius]

6. Sorry, I couldn't disagree more

I don't care about "rising finishes" etc....He has a strong, compelling voice IMO.....The unpleasant one is the hemming and hawing voice of George W Bush, with all his mispronunciations!

[flowomo]

7. you confuse voice and content

[glarius]

9. I'm not confusing anything.....I like the way he sounds and what he says!

n/t

[flowomo]

11. I meant that with respect to your comment on Bush, not Kerry

[glarius]

15. I'm not confused about Bush either, I don't like the way he sounds or what

he says!!!!

[Lisa]

13. here's a possible explanation ...

A cultural studies prof once told me that the upward inflection at the end of a sentence (which sure seems like that "rising" thing mentioned earlier) is widespread in certain parts of Canada, such as Winnipeg. It may be something that Canadians (and some Americans) are used to, so some of us may not notice it (and may even see it as "familiar" and pleasant).

So you may BOTH be right. Just a thought, from a geographer (who's up late marking a bunch of "Canadian regional characteristics" papers.)

[flowomo]

17. Interesting...

it's not always ineffective, either.... but conclusions are generally hammered home on a falling tone... rising, or open sounds suggest more to come.... and with a conclusion, there is no more to come. Similiar to music in some ways... think about the typical finishing chord -- it resolves the phrase.

[Lisa]

18. if you tune into the animated show "Bob and Margaret", they nail it ...

A lot of their Canadian characters talk that way. (I think it's even more prevalent than "eh" up here.)

This is interesting, because I've been wondering what seems so familiar about Kerry -- thanks to your observation, I think I know now. He sounds a LOT like one of my neighbours back in Hamilton, who grew up in Winnipeg and Central Ontario.

[flowomo]

21. I wonder where he acquired the trait?

It's not common in the US.... especially among men.... it is more common, or was more common, among women, becasuse the the rising finish can also indicate deference or uncertainty -- although in the studies related to women, it's usually rising AND formed as a question, not a statement.

[Lisa]

27. I assume it started BEFORE he hired that Canadian guy ...

... as his aide!

Is it possibly more common in the Northeast and other border areas (where there is, and was, a lot of cross-border migration)?

[flowomo]

31. I'm from the Northeast (Massachusetts and Maine)...

and it's not a noticeable stylistic trait there.

[Lisa]

35. there's got to be a linguistic term for that ...

I seem to recall that Maine and Massachusetts may be different from Southern Ontario and adjacent areas? I will check Labov's dialect atlas just in case. He did mention some types of upglides.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/home.html

[flowomo]

36. Well, according to that....

Maine, NH and eastern Mass (where I'm from) do form their own linguistic zone. Thanks for the cite -- I'm going to look at that more closely.

[Harrumph]

2. I don't get it either....

I think Kerry has a nice voice and I enjoy listening to his speechs. Although, compared to the shrub Miss Piggy has a nice voice.

:evilgrin:

[TexasProgresive]

3. Lie enough and everyone will believe it.

Look what these A**holes did to Cleland, Gore, the Clintons, and McCain. They are masters at little snivelly lies that get under the skin of people and like a malignant parasite move into their brains.

[Catherine Vincent]

4. It's definitely better than chimpspeak.

[UTUSN]

10. Why Do I Hear Negative Things about KERRY *Period*?

Also, negative things about Liberal radio, FRANKEN, ----------why? And why HERE?

[agates]

20. I like Kerry's voice

Kind of sounds like a minister, orator, etc. In a good way. No ums or ahs, just good, solid, resonant, speech.

[glarius]

22. Exactly....it compells you to listen!

:)

[Cleita]

23. No one paid attention when they made fun of his hair,

or his snowboarding so now they are picking on his voice.

It must be nice to be sitting up on Mt. Olympus picking on the not-so-perfect mortals.

[0rganism]

24. You will hear negative things about anything and everything Kerry...

...for the next 6 months. Just yesterday, someone was going off in another forum I visit about Kerry not knowing how to tie his tie, and is therefore unqualified to be president.

Some of the criticisms will be reasonable, some will not. But you'll potentially be exposed to an amazing amount of it.

The real tragedy is that bush will get nothing but positive spin from his copascetic media whores.

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. Kerry doesn't use an energetic/excited tone, IMO

It's fairly...monotone. I'll listen to him and what he say, but it's often hard to stay tuned in.

When he's "on" delivery though, he's outstanding. The speech he gave last week was really good...positive and forward-looking with an animated voice. He did his best during the primaries by using these techniques.

I think he needs to sound a little more like a fighter than he usually does. JMHO.

[Cleita]

28. Yes, but...but...but...the Dean scream?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Norquist Nemesis]

32. LOL! It's a good scream to learn!

I gave it to my husband yesterday when he was making fun of me for something!

You're right, though. Can't please all the people all of the time.

[opihimoimoi]

29. Kerry is fine just the way he is. He is doing great and he will be a very

good President. He will be the first of many Democratic Presidents to repair the damage Bush has caused.

Come, we find ways to help the man.

[Digit]

39. I like his voice

It is refreshing to hear some intelligent discourse for a change.

Some people must like to stir things up...
I am noticing that alot lately on DU.

[homelandpunk]

40. there IS a Thurston Howell flavor to it. Admit it. n/t

[rebellious woman]

42. He's a New Englander, we all talk funny, however

well educated and speak the King's English which
is more than I can say for "current resident" and his
accent is as fake as they come, their New England
also, from the wrong side of the tracks as far as we
are concerned. :)