AWOL or not? Office Republican gets fired up....

[phillybri]

Sent to me by Republican friend:

Lt. George W. Bush's Instructor Pilot Speaks Out -- Sets the Record Straight Subject: A Personal Letter of Observation of Lt. George W. Bush by his former Instructor Pilot Colonel Thomas G. Lockhart, USAF (Ret) Fellow Veterans:

I have heard about all I can stand of the military careers of the two presidential candidates. It's like two combatants arguing about who's Purple Heart carries the most weight. I have seen e-mails "splitting hairs" and making unsubstantiated claims against both candidates. I will not engage in this type of childish name-calling. The official records indicate that both individuals completed their military service obligations and received honorable discharges.

I can, however, give you some personal observations upon which I base my opinion of Governor Bush. George W. Bush arrived at Moody AFB, Georgia, for undergraduate pilot training (UPT) in 1968 as a member of the Texas Air National Guard. I was assigned as one of his Instructor Pilots. The atmosphere at this training base was somber and dead serious, as the student pilots were all either going to Vietnam or subject to being called up for combat duty as members of a Guard or Reserve unit.

George W. Bush put himself totally into the task of becoming the best aviator in the class. His unit flew Century Series jet fighters, which required the best pilots. There was no room for error, as these airplanes were unforgiving, and the price for a mistake was often the pilot's life. George W. Bush appeared to have that "fighter pilot attitude" from our first meeting. This attitude can best be described as: "I can handle the situation--regardless of the odds." He was extremely competitive and eager to learn every thing about his machine and the enemy's tactics. He was quick to pick up the flying skills necessary to maneuver an aircraft into a position to shoot down an enemy aircraft.

Being a fighter pilot is truly like being a modern day gladiator. When two jet fighters meet in combat, there is usually only one survivor. It is the ultimate test of your skills, and you must hone these skills until you have complete confidence that you will be victorious--that in the air you are invincible. Cocky? You bet!!! That was the attitude that saved England during the Battle of Britain, when a small cadre of British fighter pilots turned back the German onslaught. "Never have so many owed so much to so few," were Winston Churchill's words describing the RAF victory. This standard is part of the heritage of every fighter pilot.

The traits which, I believe, made George W. Bush a good fighter pilot and would also make him a good president are: a.. Leadership -- a "take charge" attitude. b.. Stamina -- when the going gets tough, the tough get going. c.. Sincerity -- a love of country and care for your fellowman. d.. Integrity -- knowledge of and willingness to act upon honest principles.

My personal bottom line used to be, "Would you follow this person into combat?" Well, I'm a bit old now for combat, but I respect George W. Bush's leadership abilities, and I would follow him anywhere!

[bif]

1. What a crock!

n/t

[donsu]

11. agree

nt

[molly]

2. Let's email COL Lockhart and ask him how he feels

about the cuts in veterans benefits.

[roughsatori]

3. First try www.snopes.com for debunking

then go to www.awolbush.com for the facts.

[blm]

4. He's welcome to bring this up often...

in 2004 when he's debating Max Cleland on Hardball. heheh.

Max took off the gloves a while back and will NOT put them back on.

[DinahMoeHum]

5. COL Lockhart ain't nothin' but a "singer". . .

and his "song" sucks bigtime.


:puke:

[The Night Owl]

6. http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/

Unsubstantiated claims?

Here are the documents...

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/

If the documents are not enough, then why does no one from Bush's unit remember him being where he was supposed to be during the year he spent AWOL?

[Rex]

7. Oh please, he snorted coke and downed it all with booze!

George Walker Bush is a piece of shit - not worthy enough to lick the dog feces off the bottom of my shoe. I'd bet good money that GWB has the smallest penis on the planet Earth!!!

[bitchkitty]

43. If he has one at all.

Actually, from what I can see (remember the Daily Show's film of his boner?) he has one, but I suspect that it doesn't work in any way that would do poor Laura any good.

[oasis]

8. It's easy to have that "fighter pilot attitude" in training when you know

you won't be going to where the action is. :eyes:

"gladiator" sheesh.

on edit: It's interesting that the GOP finds it necessary to answer the question on Chimpy's being AWOL.

[The Night Owl]

9. Notice that the Colonel says nothing about 1972-1973

Notice that the Colonel says nothing about 1972 to 1973, the period of time during which Bush was AWOL for a year.

[GainesT1958]

14. I know of no fighter pilots at Seymour Johnson AFB, nor

Any at Cherry Point MCAS who would put up with a squadron leader who went off on binges drinking, and CERTAINLY not snorting coke...they'd drum him out of the Air Force so fast, and I KNOW the Marine Corps would not tolerate Dub's kind of behavior. And that's BEFORE he would've gone AWOL from it all...

Dub's the typical coward trying hard to make amends for it all because, deep down, he feels guilty about his past pitfalls. But not guilty enough to appologize for them, nor to make amends today by visiting the REAL heroes--our troops wounded in combat. He's just a "dry drunk" pretending to be a fighter jock--and pretending to be president. :mad:

B-)

[PROGRESSIVE1]

10. Signed Sincerely, Dr. Goebbels!

:puke:

[grasswire]

12. what is he talking about??

He's talking about the "two candidates" who both fulfilled their military obligation and got honorable discharges.


He likely isn't talking about anyone in the 2004 race, because there are 9 of them, not one.

And he couldn't be talking about the race against Ann Richards.

So what the heck is he talking about??

[grasswire]

13. and.....

....look at this:

"The traits which, I believe, made George W. Bush a good fighter pilot and would also make him a good president are..."

So this was written before he became president....he's talking about Gore.

[GainesT1958]

15. Ah, so he's comparing him to a guy who...

VOLUNTEERED for duty in Viet Nam...surely nothing Dub would've done!:eyes:

B-)

[dsc]

20. presumedly 2000

and Bush versus Gore.

[nolabels]

16. He should send out for his reward, send him a E-mail to tell him

know how he cash in !! Check this website http://www.awolbush.com/ they are offering a reward for just such a type of person, or something like that. I mean couldn't everybody use a extra $5,000.00 ?

[grytpype]

17. When was the last time there was an air-to-air kill in combat?

Does that ever happen anymore?

[Poiuyt]

22. Yes it does

I believe it happened during the first Gulf War. I seem to remember an incident when a Suadi fighter shot down an Iraqi. They made a big deal about this because it showed that the Arab world was involved, not just the US (like the second Gulf War).

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. Sep. 11, 2001

Flight 93.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. this guy doesn't know his RAF/ Battle of Britain history

the RAF was so short of pilots towards the end of the punishing Luftwaffe assualts on Britain that they were eventually forced to rely on non-British (e.g: Canadian) pilots in the defense effort. And this was after tapping out all reserves of the "commonwealth" nations (South Africa, Australia, et al.), which I guess you could call "British". :shrug:
But I quibble.
Col. Lockhart does not mention whether or not the vaunted "Century Series" jets were eligilble for combat. However, I do not doubt the other facts of the story on Bush's "enthusiasm" for learning since this whole charade was what was keeping him OUT of combat. 1968 was a BAD year to be "in country", something Bush was keen to avoid.

Polish involvement in the greatest air battle in history

[rasputin1952]

24. There were also American pilots that volunteered...

under Canadian auspices, so as not to involve the US before we actually got into WWII.

I am glad you brought up the link to the Poles, btw. The Poles have been slighted in history concerning WWII. After the invasion of Poland in 1939, many in the Polish Armed Services made it out to England and other spots that were yet unconquered. From these bases, they were involved in every major landing and suffered many casualties. They were troops that finally took Monte Casino; Poles landed On D-Day; There were Polish troops in every European sector.

On one occassion, after the fall of Poland to the Germans and the Russians in Set 1939, a Polish Private that had arrived in England was asked, why will you fight, your country has been overrun. His answer, "I fight with you now, so that your country will not suffer the same fate as ours". This is one of the most noble thing an soldier like me can hear. And this was no 'General Officer Sound Bite', this was the real thing.

BTW, I am not Polish, (although I have many Polish friends); I just have a respect for those that will walk where they say they will walk. Something the current Administraion can never fathom.

[HawkerHurricane]

31. Poles fought bravely under multiple flags

Polish flag (September 1939)
British flag (Free Polish Forces, including armor, infantry and airborne troops)
Russian flag (People Polish Army, who attempted to relieve Warsaw but were held back by the Soviets)
Polish submarines (and one destroyer!) escaped the fall of Poland and made it to England, so thier navy was represented along with the Air Force and Army.

[HawkerHurricane]

30. Slight correction

Commonwealth pilots were involved from the beginning. I'm reading a wonderful book, "Fighter Pilot" (where'd it go? I'll look up the author later) written during the war. I'm in the chapter on the Battle of France, and the British pilot describes his unit: he's got 2-3 Canadians and a South African flying with him, and this is before the Battle of Britain.
Late in the Battle of Britain, Chzecks(sp), Poles, Norweigeans(sp) and French pilots were thrown into the fray after a 'crash couse' in English (since that was the language used by the air controlers).
I must have left the book in the car, now I'm annoyed since I won't be able to get to it until tommorow.

[ewagner]

38. Being a "Wings" addict

Wasn't the famous "Eagle Suadron" of the RAF made up of Canadians and Americans?

Second, I think only us arm chair pilots refer to the "century series jets" and those could be any of:

f-100 Supersabre...I thought retired after Nam
f-101 Voodoo, used only for recon in Nam
f-102/f-106 Delta Dagger Delta Dart...used by reserves a lot but would have been mentioned by name.
f-104...man killers used mostly in germany and replaced very quickly.
f-105 Thunderchief or thud....

and that was pretty much the end of the century series....
every real pilot I've ever known has had a deep affection for his airplane and called it affectionately by name...not referring to a whole group of planes.

trivial but maybe an insight into the authenticity of the letter.

[HawkerHurricane]

45. Correct

The Eagle Squadrons were American pilots who went to Canada to volunteer for the RAF. Since they signed up as 'Canadians', their squadron commanders were Canadian at first, at least until they got enough experience to command themselves.

F-104 Starfighters were the worlds fastest fighter (a record that it may still hold, depending on your definition). In high speed manuevers, pilots tended to black out and the plane would go out of control and be very diffucult to recover even if the pilot regained consousness. They were very fast, capable of doing Mach 2 in a vertical climb...pure interceptors, designed before effective radar guided missiles.

There is a definite tendency of pilots to call planes by the (often unofficial) nicknames...F-100 Supersabe, F-101 DooDoo, F-102/F-106 Deltas, F-104 Manned Missile, and F-105 Thuds or Weasels...I never heard (nor has my Father, who would know) of any fighters refered to as the 'century series'. Sounds like something the History Channel would say.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

50. Brilliant reporting guys- high fives from me!

I knew his casual reference to 'a small cadre of British pilots' stunk to high heaven, and it was apparently just 'the tip of the iceberg'. It's absolutely insulting to the true legacy of the BoB to dismiss the heroics of the international amalgamation of pilots Britain rallied to the fight. It is awesome, awe inspiring history, and everyone should know it.

If you guys are ever in NYC drop me a line here, I'll buy you a drink and we'll talk planes. My love and appreciation began with the 1/32 scale Revell model Spitfire I got when I was 7. (My favorite part was putting the British 'target' decals on!)

[HawkerHurricane]

59. Small Cadre was right

After all, they are 'the few' in
"Never in the field of human conflict
Have so many
Owed so much
To so few" - Winston Churchil, statesman and former naval person

My love of airplanes comes from my Father. I had some wonderful 1/48 scale models, including a Spitfire Mk. II and a Hawker Hurricane Mk. V.

[qb]

19. I'd like to see how this guy' s stock portfolio improved

after he released this statement.

[SpiralHawk]

21. Chimpy got a Purple Heart? I don't think so.

The Col. seems to imply that he has one. If so, is it for the Pretzel wound, or the Segway bruise?

Maybe he meant to say a Yellow Heart?

[rasputin1952]

26. Yellow Heart....ROFLMAO!...

At least it would match the spines of those in this Administration! (Powell excepted for military service).

[JohnKleeb]

28. yeah a distinguished pussy division medal

Powell yea and Rummy too but you can exempt him because he was NEVER active duty. Also my grandfather a Korean vet, proud dem, and longtime critic of the war was really getting on Bush and Rummy last week, called Rummy a SOB and more, and theres something that I cant say that he said, dont want men in coats coming to his house.

[MisterP]

35. baaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!

[blm]

56. Purple Heart vs. Yellow Heart

Damn, SpiralHawk, you should copyright that. That's a goodun.

[THUNDER HANDS]

25. how many fighter pilots

Did the Vietnamese have?

Just curious?

[BiggJawn]

27. Whover sent you this...

Probably believes that bullshit about Pvt. Lynch firing on the Iraqis until the barrel of her M-4 melted, then she bludgeoned an additional 3 or 4 with her weapon before being brought down under a mountian of frightened Iraqi cionscripts....

[DS1]

29. Reading between the lines

This "Century Series" jet was an obsolete unflyable piece of shit that was never going into combat.

[never cry wolf]

32. that is correct

i actually don't know if it was a piece of shit but i just finished reading "fortunate son" and the craft he trained on definitely was not slated to see any combat. there was also the fact that he jumped in front of thousands on the guard waiting list to keep from being drafted and his unprecedentedly quick field commission. the wheels were just a tad, uh, greased methinks.

[DemoTex]

33. I think Lockhart is wrong. Century Series jet fighters at Moody AFB?

I'm not sure of the pipeline for guardsman going through USAF UPT (undergraduate pilot training) in 1968, but it damn sure did not include F-100 series fighters. The training probably began with primary training in a single-engine Cessna T-41A (Cessna 172), and progressed through a Cessna T-37 "Tweetybird" and a supersonic Northrop T-38 "Talon."

The F-102 (Century Series fighter) check-out was done by the guard unit flying the aircraft, according to everything I've ever read about this subject. Correct me if I wrong.

Zooooom!

[HawkerHurricane]

34. No T-33 'Converters'?

(Convert jet fuel into noise. Also, called by base housing 'The Screaming Mimi's', guarenteed to wake every baby in housing when they went by.
Dad was Air Farce, by the way, and I was born on a AFB in Alabama.)

[DemoTex]

36. Shrub might have trained in T-33s

I kind of doubt it though. Where were you born? Maxwell, AFB? When? I saw my first jet at Maxwell. It was probally an early version of the T-33 in the early '50s.

[HawkerHurricane]

37. If Maxwell is in Selma, than yes.

Dad was stationed in Selma, from 1960 to late 1963. I was born early in '63, and made the family move to the west coast as soon as I figured out I was in Alabama.

T-33's were the 'trainer' version of the P-80 Shooting Star...Dad goes gaga at every airplane museum that has one. "That's the bird I worked on"...

[catzies]

39. "as soon as I figured out I was in Alabama."

That is hilarious! :hi:

[DemoTex]

40. Maxwell AFB was Montgomery. Craig AFB was Selma.

Craig AFB is closed now. It is public housing. My wife and I were attacked there three years ago, late at night, as we drove by old Craig AFB. Two youths in the median chunked big rocks through the back side windows of our Subaru Outback station wagon. They were, no doubt, aiming at my head. They almost hit my dog. I still drive through Selma (I take the downtown route over the Pettus Bridge) on US-80 about six times a year.

[Bozita]

41. Please don't squeeze the Charmin.

In need of a 24-pack of triple-length rolls.

[bitchkitty]

42. Oh, so he just now speaks out?

Where was he when it all started? This is a load of manure.

[the_sam]

44. This Could've Easily Been Made Up

I'd bet money that this letter is a complete fabrication. Remember the emails that used to get sent around about Clinton's "crimes", and how stupid things that Dan Quayle said magically became stupid things that Al Gore said last election.

[punpirate]

46. This originally got legs from...

... a Charley Reese column in the Orlando Sentinel, oddly enough, published Nov. 5, 2000. Reese said in that column that he found the letter posted on "veterans-for-Bush" site, but I haven't determined which one, yet. I don't see anything suggesting that Reese checked any of the facts behind the letter posted to the site. FWIW, a Col. Thomas G. Lockhart doesn't show up in any other way other than mention of this letter on a Google search.

Moreover, the suggestion is that this instructor trained Bush on the F-102A (mention of Century-series aircraft), and that training was actually done through Bush's guard unit in Texas. Lockhart would have had no knowledge of Bush's capabilities in that aircraft, nor of his disappearance from the TANG. There was no F-102 training at Moody, just undergraduate flight training in the T-41A Cessna and T-37s and/or T-38s.

Doesn't look as if anyone has looked into the authenticity of the Lockhart letter in any way. Neither Snopes nor truthorfiction has anything on it.

Cheers.

[dmr]

47. I don't know anything about planes, but

iirc, he was trained on a plane not slated for use in VietNam. Is that correct?

[Toots]

48. Ahhh~~~Gag me with a spoon.....

Is that a sock down his pants or what?????

[dani]

49. the problem with this letter

is "Colonel Thomas G. Lockhart, USAF (Ret)" does not register with various websearches, the only thing that ever turns up is the bare letter with no trace back to the real Col Thomas G. Lockhart. There's no explanation or context for the letter anywhere on the web (that I can find), just the letter itself -- and the only place it shows up is on conservative websites defending Bush for not making his military record public. That's it. It dates back to 2000 but that's all I can find out about it.

I can't place too much faith in the authenticity of the letter until I can learn more about it. But I have to wonder why it's so difficult to find information on it...?

[blm]

51. The right eats this stuff up.

There is a small group of profs at Bob Jones University who put out chain emails like this. They are the same ones who operated against McCain here in SC. They are vicious thugs who think no lie is too big in the pursuit of an all Christian nation.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

52. go to post 18 up above and follow that thread

I think 3 of us thoroughly discredited it. In fact, I'll bet we could get that little discussion published somewhere! :)

[Octafish]

53. Georgia ANG is not the issue: Bush never showed up in Alabama..

By saying good things about Bush and Georgia ANG, the colonel diverts attention away from the issue of Duhbya's whereabouts when he was supposed to be in the Alabama ANG. Hey Col. Lockhart! By any chance, did you try to claim the reward money for confirming the chickenhawk-in-chief's whereabouts?

From a Bush-AWOL timeline at MotherJones:

May 26, 1972:

Transfers to Alabama Guard unit so he can work on Senator William Blount's reelection campaign. According to his commanding officer, Bush never shows up for duty while in Alabama, nor can anyone confirm he ever serves in the Guard again.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2003/02/ma_217_01.html

[NewYorkerfromMass]

54. Texas, Alabama, Georgia... Where the F*** was George?

The authenticity of any of these stories is in doubt. The point here was to debunk the letter from Moody AFB, and I think we did.

[Octafish]

55. Great job, All! Here's my suspicion of where Bush "lay"...

[JaneQPublic]

57. Now read the truth (Wash Post bio of *)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

Two weeks before he was to graduate from Yale, George Walker Bush stepped into the offices of the Texas Air National Guard at Ellington Field outside Houston and announced that he wanted to sign up for pilot training.

It was May 27, 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War. Bush was 12 days away from losing his student deferment from the draft at a time when Americans were dying in combat at the rate of 350 a week. The unit Bush wanted to join offered him the chance to fulfill his military commitment at a base in Texas. It was seen as an escape route from Vietnam by many men his age, and usually had a long waiting list.

Bush had scored only 25 percent on a "pilot aptitude" test, the lowest acceptable grade. But his father was then a congressman from Houston, and the commanders of the Texas Guard clearly had an appreciation of politics.

Bush was sworn in as an airman the same day he applied. His commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, was apparently so pleased to have a VIP's son in his unit that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken administering the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in. Later, when Bush was commissioned a second lieutenant by another subordinate, Staudt again staged a special ceremony for the cameras, this time with Bush's father the congressman – a supporter of the Vietnam War – standing proudly in the background.

MORE...

[blm]

58. I can't wait for the vets' protests of Bush in 2004.

He will not be able to avoid the AWOLSTICK that will be swung over and over again till the American people hear it loud and clear.