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IranianDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:01 AM
Original message
How would you rate the candidates' Progressiveness on a scale 1-10?
With Lieberman being "1" and Kucinich being "10" how do you think the other candidates fit in the scale?
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing like blatant
bias in a poll I always say! :D

Put Dean at 5. Exactly where he should be.
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phishhead Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. In my opinion.. on a scale of 1-10
Kucinich - 8
Sharpton - 8
Graham - 6
Kerry - 6
Dean - 5
Gephardt - 2
Lieberman - 1

Uncertain: Moseley Braun, Edwards.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Kucinich rates 8-10 for men
...but his horrible record on reproductive freedom nets him about a 3 from women.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Kucinich gets very high marks from Feminists
Edited on Tue Aug-12-03 02:59 PM by Tinoire
And that's one reason this feminist is 100% behind him.

There's a lot more to feminism than abortion rights as these feminists will show you. Also, Kucinich does not have a horrible record on reproductive freedom.
---------------------------------------
From a feminist perspective, Kucinich (despite his too-recent conversion to pro-choice) arguably would be better for women - especially poor women and women of color - then the other Dem candidates. Of the Democratic candidates, for example, Kucinich is the one most likely to be sympathetic to the need for government-funded childcare; for not just keeping abortion legal, but for supporting funding programs to help poor women who cannot afford an abortion; for providing more real reproductive choice to poor women by supporting government aid to single mothers; to support unionization of female-heavy workforces, such as retail workers; to fight to raise the minimum wage (most minimum wage workers are women); etc, etc..

On all of these issues, Kucinich is the most likely candidate to act in a way that - in the view of this feminist, at least - best supports the interests of women's equality.

http://www.sapphosbreathing.com/archives/000017.html


-----------------------

Although the following statement has just started to circulate, it has already attracted signatures from such prominent feminists as Blanche Weisen Cook, biographer of Eleanor Roosevelt; Marilyn French, author of "The Women's Room"; actress and singer Ronnie Gilbert; Jewish activist and poet Irena Klepfisz; and political scientist Zillah Eisenstein.

* * * *
FEMINISTS FOR KUCINICH

We are feminists who consider the Bush administration a danger to our country and the world, and see a regime change in 2004 as the highest political priority. Rather than waiting to hear what all the Democratic candidates have to say, then jumping on the bandwagon of the least offensive, we decided to make our own list of priorities and see who agrees with us. Here's our list:

We want a candidate who will stop the war on the poor. Though an estimated 20 -29 percent of Americans live in poverty, the Republicans’ new tax code penalizes the poor and rewards the rich. Women on welfare are forced into low-paid jobs, even in the absence of childcare. Food pantries can no longer meet the demand of the millions of the poor, both employed and unemployed. When anyone mentions these facts, the Republicans accuse them of inciting a "class war," but they are the ones who have started this war, whose victims are disproportionately women, children and people of color.

We want a candidate who stands for peace, respects international treaties and institutions such as the U.N. and the International Criminal Court, and tries to resolve problems through negotiation. We are horrified by the fact that our country started a war for no clear reason, on the basis of lies and distortions, in defiance of international law and world opinion, and without concern for the lives that would be lost. Far from protecting us from terrorism, such military adventures can only increase our vulnerability and feed the rage and ranks of those who seek to harm us.

We want a candidate who will defend the separation of church and state, and the individual rights guaranteed us by the Constitution. The Bush administration has instituted detention without trial; secret military tribunals; and hugely increased government surveillance of our citizens.

We want a candidate who opposes discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity, and who stands for women's reproductive rights and recognizes that these rights depend on universal health insurance. The right to choose means women are entitled to abortion, if that is their choice, and to all the social supports necessary to raise children, if that is their choice. The Bush administration is seeking to appoint judges who will undermine these rights.

We want a candidate who will address questions of global economic imbalance and stand up for the rights of immigrants. International financial institutions like the IMF and World Bank, led by the U.S., have imposed “structural adjustment” policies that relentlessly increase the gulf between rich and poor countries -- driving many of the world's poor to come here, legally or illegally. We call for an end to the harassment of undocumented workers by the INS and the political persecution of immigrants of color--the round-ups and detentions. We are a "nation of immigrants" and should embrace this heritage.

We want a candidate who will challenge racism domestically and internationally; who understands that affirmative action is still needed and that our schools have been re-segregated; and who will take a stand against the Republican Party’s use of stereotypes to spread division and fear, from Reagan's "welfare queens" to today's demonized version of Islam.
Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who not only agrees with all these points but has developed policies to support them: starting a cabinet-level Department of Peace; supporting unions and the right to organize; cutting the bloated military budget; restoring environmental regulations and launching a “Global Green Deal” to benefit developing countries; withdrawing from NAFTA and the WTO and challenging IMF/World Bank policies; repealing the “Patriot Act”; upholding Roe v. Wade; working for universal health insurance; and abolishing the racially and economically biased death penalty.

Because we feel that he comes closest to representing our priorities, we have decided to support Dennis Kucinich for President and hope you will join us by signing this statement. Of course this does not preclude our voting for whoever gets the nomination; this is about whom to support in the primaries. Molly Ivins has put it: Vote your heart in the primaries, vote your head in November. If Dennis wins enough hearts, there won't be any contradiction.

Original Signers:


Barbara Ehrenreich, a political essayist whose most recent book is Nickel and Dimed: Surviving in Low Wage America

Angela Gilliam, professor and scholar of Black feminist anthropology and international feminism

Ynestra King, a writer and activist specializing in environmental, feminist, and disability issues

Gail Lerner, an organizer in the global women's movement, who has worked with several United Nations agencies and international NGOs in the U.S. and abroad

Grace Paley, a writer and peace activist whose works include Enormous Changes at the Last Minute, Later That Same Day, and Just as I Thought

Rosalind Petchesky, an international feminist activist and Distinguished Professor of Political Science at Hunter College and the City University of New York

Digna Sanchez, a Latina community activist in New York, president of the Aspirante Alumni Fellowship

Meredith Tax, a novelist, essayist and international organizer of feminist writers, whose books include Rivington Street and Union Square

+2181 more feminist signatures

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/feminists_4_kucinich/
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Kerry and Graham have at least a 15% gap in their ratings.
Kerry's was closest to Wellstone. How do you figure that they are the same?
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Gephardt is a 100 times more progressive than Dean
Dean is a centrist, while Gephardt is a progressive populist whose base of support is labor unions.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting question.
It would have to include a gestalt of factors concerning foreign (F)policy, fiscal/economic policies (E), and social policies (S). I wouldn't give Kucinich a complete 10 since he used to be pro-life, pro flag burning amendment, etc. Perhaps Nader could be our standard of ideological purity, and Zell Miller can be the standard of impurity.

Moseley-Braun -- F= 9, E= 10, S= 10
9.7
Sharpton -- 9.7 F= 9, E= 10, S=10
Kucinich = 9.3 F= 10, E= 10, S= 8
Dean = 7.0. F = 8, E = 6, S= 7.
Kerry = 6.3 F= 4, E= 7, S= 8
Gephardt = 6.0 F= 3, E=9, S = 6
Edwards = 4.0F= 4, E= 3, S= 5
Lieberman -- 2.7 F= 1, E= 3, S= 4
Graham = 2.7 F= 2, E= 2, S= 4
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I agree with your numbers
seems about right
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Depends what your definition of Progressive is.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Hahah...
Guess you never bothered to read Kerry's foreign policy speech where he outlines his plan for "Progressive Internationalism" focusing on worldwide access to food and medical care and fair wages while protecting the environment and NO imperialism. Dean's subsequent speech practically cribbed many of Kerry's points. Read one after the other and see for yourself.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Kerry is a lot closer to Gephardt and Edwards
than he is to Kucinich and Sharpton on foreign policy. This is a truism.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Look at your numbers
Edited on Tue Aug-12-03 11:19 AM by blm
for Kerry and Dean on foreign policy. It's an absurd calculation. Dean can't even talk about Israel on his site without pulling the page every now and then.

Gary Hart warned us that Dean has no foreign policy chops. He also warned against Lieberman. I guess Hart's warnings don't matter to you, which is the same attitude that Bush and Cheney took in January 2001.
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. In the Congress, there was a vote on the Iraq war.
Many Senators and Congressmen sided with Shrub for whatever reason. Others like Kucinich were actively opposing this. It would be grossly against my standards of honesty and rationality to ignore this.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. and preserved the UN
Edited on Tue Aug-12-03 01:18 PM by blm
which means nothing to you?

Sorry, but you are showing no REAL standard of honesty if you declare that Biden-Lugar and the eventual Iraq resolution are so far apart that your scale shows Dean and Kerry so far apart.

And the fact that you would ignore Hart's warnings about Dean and foreign policy is about as rational as Bush and Cheney ignoring Hart's warnings in January 2001.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. What? C'mon!
Since when is Gary Hart the all knowing, all seeing arbiter of who should and should not get elected?

And, equating ignoring Hart's warnings about terrorism with not taking his advice on the Democratic nominee is just ridiculous.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. which fiscal policies are "progressive"?
Curious about that one. How exactly is "fiscally conservative" Dean now a "fiscal progressive"?
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poskonig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Trade and social services count too.
Edited on Tue Aug-12-03 11:18 AM by poskonig
Graham is *very* free trade and fiscally conservative. He gets a '2'. Gephardt is *very* fair trade AND supports robust social services. I believe I gave him a '9'. Dean wants to put teeth in trade agreements, expand social services incrementally, but is fiscally conservative. Hence I put Dean at '6', a notch above the middle.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. ah, I missed it
you are putting fiscal/economic in the same category, I misread F as fiscal. my apologies :)
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. Isn't it about time...
...we stopped using a "one-size fits all" false right/left dichotomy to judge everything by? In the world of politics and public affairs, there are many issues and questions. No easy label can summarize all the variances which are common in REAL people. The reliance on labels is simply another sign of our nations intellectual laziness when it comes to matters that impact our lives.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. Bush=0. Anyone who beats Bush=10.
Everything else is like asking the McDonalds workers to put the ketchup on your burger in a certain manner.
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fabius Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. My guesstimates:
Sharpton - 9
Moseley Braun-9
Kucinich - 9
Kerry - 7
Dean - 6
Gephardt - 5
Edwards - 3
Graham - 3
Lieberman - 1

I give Dean extra "liberal" points for involving more people in the political process. Gep. despite his war vote is shooting for universal health care and is talking about some rollback of NAFTA.



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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. My numbers, from what I can tell....
Kerry - 9
Sharpton - 9
Kucinich - 8.5
Braun - 8.5
Gephardt - 7
Dean - 7
Edwards - 6.5
Graham - 5.5
Lieberman - 4.5
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. mine exactly, except i'd invert BG and JE, and kick JL down a full point.
good calls
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
11. Moseley-Braun
Sharpton
Kucinich
Dean
Gephardt
Edwards-Graham
Kerry
Lieberman
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. give it a go
Sharpton 10
Kucinich 9
Braun 8
Gephardt 7
Kerry 6
Edwards 5
Dean 4
Lieberman 3
Graham 2

Obviously the Iraq war is not my only criterion, nor hot topics like gay marriage, which is why e.g. Edwards rates higher than Dean. I believe Edwards is strongly in favor of progressive taxation and a kind of basic fairness which is almost like social justice. He seems to understand and respect civil liberties, and has cast some unpopular votes because of that, like opposing the proposal to ban the desecration of the flag. For those reasons I rate him higher than Dean, whom I'm unsure of at this time. If I were paying more attention to Dean I might easily find reasons to rate him as more progressive than Edwards, and perhaps Kerry.
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Hmmm...
Edited on Tue Aug-12-03 08:05 AM by redeye
Dean - 9
Kucinich - 8.5
Moseley Braun - 8.5
Kerry - 7.5
Edwards - 7
Graham - 7
Sharpton - 6.5
Gephardt - 5.5
Lieberman - 4
(Bush - 4)

I rate Sharpton dismally low because of his record on race from the viewpoint of anyone who's not black.
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Mel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. will you please explain
to me why you made that comment about Sharpton 'anyone who's not black' what are you basing that statement on?
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Race-baiting...
...and his inciting of hate crimes against Jews.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-03 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. Edwards -- Taxes: 10
And, since this is the most important tool the right is using to protect their hegemony, I think it's the most important issue for the candidates.

Folks, this election (and the previous election) were all about who's going to bear the burden and who's going to reap the benefits of American society, and tax law is weapon number one in the strategy.

Edwards is the only candidate who talks about progressivity in the income tax structure, and about the issues which flow down from the burden-benefit issue (like education and class).

Edward gets it, in my opinion, making him one of the most progressive in the field.

Now, I don't think many Americans understand how taxes can be such a litmus test for progressivity, but I also think that's OK, because a lot of the middle of the spectrum voters not inclined to vote for a progressive, will be willing to vote for Edwards because they don't see how progressive he is.
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