Yet another Nick Berg theory. This one is pretty good.

[keithyboy]

http://www.brushtail.com.au/nick_berg_hypothesis.html

Problem is no one is paying attention because no one wants to believe that we have come to this nadir in our history.

[natrat]

1. that was a good read

shrubco cant even pull off evil stunts off very well anymore. The wmds from a week ago had me believing that iraq had wmds...not

[Catch22Dem]

2. Interesting n/t

[librechik]

3. I like all the stuff about the tape manipulation

that works well. However I have other theories about the actual death.

1. Suppose Nick was kidnapped an killed by "terrorists" out to kill contractors (9 people were kidnapped that weekend)If the CIA just found Nick's body they could have decided to use it to concoct a "realistic" Al Qaeda atrocity. They used all the previous tape to show the interview, as Possum describes, then uses the dead body they found on the bridge to fake a "death on camera"

or 2. Suppose Nick died "accidentally" during interrogation in CPA custody. What a great way to cover up the death: uses the precious roouting interrogation footage to cast blame on Al Qaeda for something you yourself did.

[keithyboy]

4. Your number 2 is my bet.

Wish someone would step forward and tell the truth. What an October bombshell that would be!!!

[Warpy]

5. I've long suspected that Berg died in custody

..and that the final email to his family was faked.

Having black ops guys pose as terrorists and hack off a corpse's head is well within what I might expect of them, and goes along with that identification segment of the tape. Add to that the analysis of the digital fingerprinting (which may or may not be true) and you have a smoking gun pointing right at that prison.

This whole thing has smelled bad from the beginning. Why did Berg's company not really exist, not even on paper? Why would he go there without being hired on as a sub by one of the big outfits? Why is everybody lying about having him in custody? Just what were his movements from the time he landed to the time the headless body in the orange jumpsuit was found? Did the Berg family think to get some tissue for an independent DNA analysis? Why was the timing of this whole thing SO fortuitous for the Bush gang?

It's not hard to liberate an orange jumpsuit from prison laundry, I would imagine, and I'm sure video cams are all over the place. The only things we can be sure of is that they decapitated a corpse, whoever they were, and that everybody is lying.

Conspiracy theories will continue to spin about this particular episode, simply because there are so many questions, so many lies, and such a great coincidence of timing.

[Eloriel]

12. Berg's company -- one more time

There are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands of "companies" around the U.S. that aren't registered with their states' secretaries of state. Why? Because they're sole proprietorships, not corporations, and there's usually no need to file with the SoS.

There have been quotes from people in the U.S. who hired and worked with Berg. His father was his "business manager," which probably means that he kept the books and tax records, maybe issued invoices, the like.

That damn article has done SO much damage, it's infuriating. I keep seeing comments about "his company doesn't exist" and it's just bogus. Incorporation is expensive and not necessary for folks who are just basically one-man (or woman) shops, as Berg was.

[harmonyguy]

18. Berg's Company

You're absolutely right Eloriel, there are many businesses operating without benefit of incorporation, however in this case there is a photograph (link below) that would suggest that his company at least presented itself as being incorporated. What isn't clear is in what state it was incorporated.

Apparently, there is no listing for it in Pennsylvania, his home state, which is where one would reasonably anticipate that the business would be registered. That's not to say that it isn't registered in some other state, but I'm not aware of anyone (myself included) having checked the registrations in every state.

Perhaps those who are so emphaticly stating that "his company doesn't exist" are, in light of the many other 'oddities', over-stating their suspicions without actually checking their facts.

What I find noteworthy in this picture of Mr. Berg, is the combination of what appears to be a military-style haircut, some form of neckchain (dogtags possibly?) and what appear to be tattoos on each forearm. I have seen no reference to Mr. Berg being a military man, however these items seem to at least suggest the possibility. What, if anything, one could infer from that is beyond me.

HG

(link to photo)

[eridani]

29. His company does exist--registered in Virginia

Check these threads on Alternet for documentation, and also an extensive timeline.

http://forums.alternet.org/bin/motet?show+-uiewBp+-chz+Currents+1099+786
http://forums.alternet.org/bin/motet?show+-uiewBp+-chz+Currents+1099+787
http://forums.alternet.org/bin/motet?show+-uiewBp+-chz+Currents+1099+788

[mountainvue]

32. Virginia?

[eridani]

36. Yep--check the long Alternet thread n/t

[Pachamama]

40. As in "Langley" Virginia? smile...

[mountainvue]

42. That's what

I was thinking.

[eridani]

44. As in his sister is a lawyer living in Virginia--

--who probably found her own state of residence more convenient. She did all the paperwork for him.

[mountainvue]

31. My incorporation

with the secretary of my state cost $50. I am the only employee.

[yardwork]

14. Accidental death during custody possibility is strengthened

by the story of the former soldier who almost died in Gitmo. He had been ordered to pretend to be a detainee. He was beaten almost to death and has permanent nerve damage. The link is in a separate thread someplace here at DU, I think in LBN.

If Berg was in custody, either as a real detainee or as an undercover detainee, he could have been killed during "interrogation." In that case, the special ops guys would be freaking out. How to cover it up? Somebody gets a brilliant idea. Let's blame it on al Quaida! Yeah, that's the ticket.

Only they did a really lousy job of staging the beheading video. Which is why it has disappeared from the internet and media scrutiny.

If it were real, the WH would be all over it, shoving it in our faces. They've hidden it because it's incredibly lame and fake.

edited to fix apostrophe for those sensitive to its misuse.

[teryang]

6. The defense of Abu Ghraib originates in Abu Ghraib

This is a repeat of my Nick Berg tirade, if you've seen it before I apologize, I can't stop:

Why did our government lie about having Berg in custody? Lying is evidence of guilt. A good criminal investigator would not let this go. Given the reasonable suspicion, based upon this lie and the circumstantial evidence that Berg was actually in American custody when he was murdered, (the chair, the orange suit, the Abu Ghraib decor, the Army bdu cap) it should be noted that his death is completely consistent with bush administration motives and policy. Berg's father challenged the junta, politically and later in court, in an effort to save his son from unlawful confinement. His reward, unsupported accusations of treason against his son, and seeing his son beheaded. They've upped the ante from outing Ambassador Wilson's spouse.

Berg's father was about to judo flip the junta in federal court, I guess he didn't didn't get the last word in on Mr. Ashcroft or Mr. Rumsfeld. To rub it in, the brutal killing was used to defend and strengthen the fascist regime when it was in danger of succumbing to outrage concerning its systemic unlawful torture policy and breaches of international law.

This administration has methodically created the unlawful framework for an international gulag where people are tortured and disappear. It isn't just a subversion of international law, it is linked to attacks on the Bill of Rights and Constitutional safeguards at home. Many democratic elected officials have dimwittedly just gone along for the ride. Like Dachau, as long as its true scope is disguised, people try to pretend nothing is seriously amiss and that the Constitutional mechanisms are still in place. Denials by public officials and facile rationalizations by Generals are taken at face value by fawning elected officials.

The rhetoric of human rights remain in an adumbrated mode, but the abdication of rights, political machinations, legal misrepresentations, propaganda and psychological warfare are having their impact. It is embodied in Congressional legislation and executive orders doing away with the due process of law. One hardly holds out much hope for the Supreme Court to do anything about it in the important cases now pending before it.

Violating the Conventions in Afghanistan is okay, in Gitmo it is okay, but we have some reservations about "abuse" in Iraq but the terrorists are worse, it was only a few soldiers, look they beheaded Nick Berg, just in time, too! Fascinating, mesmerizing, mass propaganda of a dictatorship and totalitarian regime in the making.

Just substitute Berg's name for Derwish in the following article.

From:

CIA Target: Americans
Officials: U.S. Citizens Working for Al Qaeda Can Be Killed in CIA Actions

By John J. Lumpkin

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/cia_americans021203.html

<Try to keep in mind the big picture of the Bush II administration’s plans for new “justice” system for accused terrorists. If the Bush administration wins all of its court cases and implements all of its expressed policy preferences, anyone accused of terrorism who is not a “state actor,” that is a soldier of another state, would get neither the protections of the criminal justice system, nor the protections afforded POWs under the Geneva Convention. This is the system in place, for example, in Guantanamo and Iraqi prisons. >

<The Bush administration sees it differently. In killing him, the administration defined Derwish as an enemy combatant, the equivalent of a U.S. citizen who fights with the enemy on a battlefield, officials said. Under this legal definition, experts say, his constitutional rights are nullified and he can be killed outright.>

[oasis]

7. Certainly within the realm of possibility. And probability. (n/t)

[Imperialism Inc.]

8. Well whatever happened I'm glad to see that others picked

up on the same things I did eventually. And, like I predicted, the theory would have to get a lot more complex (to account for the details in the video timestamps and camera angles). If one wants to discount a "simple" 2 camera theory.

Edited for a link to the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1596064

[starroute]

9. This analysis is strong on a number of points

For one thing, it offers a very plausible explanation of the orange jumpsuit, the white chair, and the yellow walls.

For another, it ties in well with the statement Berg's father made about the FBI (?) contacting them with details about the family that only his son would have known.

After reading this, I really am convinced that the early portions of the tape were from an official interrogation.

On the other hand, it doesn't explain who killed Berg, when he was killed, why he was killed, or who concocted and released the videotape. I can't quite believe that Berg would have been killed solely for purposes of creating a propaganda tape. There's a very large piece of the puzzle still missing.

[Straight Shooter]

10. Are all prisoners videotaped for their interrogation? Is it SOP?

Would Nick Berg be a special case? If so, why would the U.S. videotape him and not anyone else? Seems to me there should be an answer as to which persons in custody are chosen to be videotaped.

Did Nick have any medical condition which would cause him to "stress out" and die during interrogation?

Is anyone going to do a scientifically-based voice analysis of his voice speaking and compare it to his voice screaming?

[seabeyond]

11. gave me answer to concern, watching him on the floor sitting

his face never moved. the eyes didnt change, no moves in the face. was just too odd watching. adn i watched that closely. then i would see his soldiers release as if they had tensed up. so i watched the body to see if it was tensing up, cause in the release i thought man, that was a lot of release and wasnt seeing body tense up. watched closely and never saw the body move to tense up, just out of blue the body would release again, adn all the while not a move in the face.

so this explanation i can see the move of shoulder with no movement prior and the moving of feet.

makes better since then him sitting there alive. didnt look right

interesting

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. I liked these questions:

Were tapes made at the three known interviews of Nick Berg by the FBI? Who did the interviews? Where are they?

[texas is the reason]

15. WE NEED TO GET THIS STUFF TO HIS FATHER!!!!

he is the type of guy who is probably inclined to believe it, and already has a deep disdain for the bush administration. this story won't take off on it's own, but with Micheal Berg's help it sure would.
If we could get this one out into the public eye, it would be the most evil, most damning scandal of all time. even republicans would be lining up to impeach the chimperor!!!

[HFishbine]

16. This explains conspiracy theoritsts perfectly

The author's own words: "Here’s how I believe it might have happened."

And that is exaclty what happens with conspirists. They come to believe the "mights."

There are some glaring logic flaws that people seem almost eager to ignore. Before you accept that an explaination is needed for a "prison jump suit," ask yourself, what evidence exists that Berg was in a prison jump suit at all?

Before you start hypothesising that the government needed to shut up Berg's family because of a law suit, ask yourself if the law suit was still pending when Berg disappeared.

Apply a little critical thinking, folks.

[texas is the reason]

17. ummm...well, the video SHOWS him in a prison jumpsuit. what is your point?

also, who said anything about a lawsuit with his dad? the theory is that the bushies needed a distraction from abu Ghraib, and they needed it fast. berg was a useful idiot in the wrong place at the wrong time. maybe his dad's political leanings were an added bonus, but he just as easily could have just been the closest american with a severable head... doesn't change the thrust of the theory- that nick berg was killed, and then beheaded by our government to provide cover for the prison abuse scandal. there are many inconsistancies here, but they all seem to lie with the tape and the official explanation of it, not with the "conspiracy theories". and yes, the jumpsuit is CERTAINLY one of them.

[HFishbine]

25. You made my point

"Shows him in a prison jumpsuit?" I've seen what he was wearing, neither you nor I can state with any certainty that he was wearing a prison jumpsuit.

[texas is the reason]

30. no, it was the bright orange jumpsuit prison-styled jump suit that.....

the killers picked up at the local fallujah Target.:eyes: must have been part of thier "festive" summer collection. i hear bright orange is in this season..and they must have the same target at guantanamo bay...I quit, your logic is overwhelming my feeble little mind! orange jumpsuits! who'da thunk it! thank god i live in the land of the free. i'm gonna go watch american gladiators now.

[Dookus]

33. exactly

nobody has yet shown me a US-issued prison jumpsuit that looks like what Berg is wearing. But it's orange-ish, so therefore it's a prison jumpsuit.

sigh...

[texas is the reason]

34. link inside-

http://images.google.com/images?q=guantanamo&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi
....... hmmm, looks pretty similar to me!

[TNOE]

22. The article is called a "working hypothesis"

which is exactly how we've come to invent and know most of what we know today. Scientists always start with a "working hypothesis". Elementary my dear sir.

[HFishbine]

24. Indeed

And as a working hypothesis it is full of holes -- appealing only to those who don't wish to think critically.

[John_H]

19. Ah, yes... the "Puppet Berg" Theory.

in which berg is propped up inot position on the ground and made to move slightly by a CIA marionettist. I like this one better than the turn-me-on-dead-man theory, in which, after thorough signal processing, we have on tape an American killer saying hooah.

Keep it up, folks!!!!!

[TNOE]

20. They are so obvious

They've run the "evil doers" and "terrorists" booga booga so much into the ground that hardly anybody cares anymore - (except for his loyal chickenshit followers) so what do you do? Something REALLY HORRIFIC of course - a beheading! I knew the minute that Dimson started speaking last night - what does he bring up first? Oh, the beheading of course. They are so obvious as to be pathetic now. I could only stomach about the 1st two minutes and after the "beheading" bit - I realized I had much more important things to do than to sit and be lied to on my own time.


http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=269

[keithyboy]

21. Will anyone ever pay attention to this? It must be true because no one

in a position of authority in the military has disputed it. They are staying away from this big time.

[TNOE]

23. Just one more deception

in the whole long list of deceptions that is this administration.

9/11, Valerie Plame, Iraq War/WMD's, too many to count.

[outinforce]

26. You Are Correct!!!

It MUST -- simply M-U-S-T be true.

Why?

Because.

Because "no one in a position of authority has disputed it."

Because "they are staying away from this big time."

That is how I know that the moon MUST be made of green cheese.

Because no one in a position of authority ever disputes it.

Not only that, but "they stay away from that -- big time.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. The point at which you know it's true is when they

deny it.

[outinforce]

28. One More Piece of Hard Evidence

You have hit the nail on the head, RUMMYisFROSTED.

"They" have already denied --- some time ago -- that the moon is made of green cheese.

In the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC, there is a small fragment of what the museau says is a "moon rock".

Since this moon-rock is definitely not green cheese, the only thing I can conclude is that "they" know the truth about the moon and g reen cheesem, but are denying it, hoping that we will all swallow their bogus notion that the moon is made of some rock.

[shraby]

35. I have a little input on the jumpsuit.

All the times we've seen people as prisoners in the hands of terrorists they were wearing what they had on when they were captured. Apparently according to the story, Berg had been released from jail, went to his apartment and I would assume changed his clothes as he had been wearing the same ones for a few days while he was being held in jail. If terrorists grabbed him, why would they put him in an orange jumpsuit to make the film? That alone doesn't make any sense..unless he was filmed at the jail and never went back to his apartment.

[JSJ]

38. that pic of Bush in the header...

...makes him look like he spent a week-end in Ghraib with the troops.

On point: The article's author has a good hypothesis. Better than the gov's.

[Matilda]

39. I think so too.

You just have to think what you would do if you'd been in custody,
almost certainly without being able to wash, for a few days. You'd
want to shower and get into clean clothes.

I think the jumpsuit is an important clue, and it is relevant. I
don't believe he was ever released from custody. It's easy to fake
emails. It also doesn't make sense that he'd turn down the offer
of a flight out of Iraq on the grounds that it was too dangerous -
getting out of Iraq by any means is dangerous.

There's also the fact that the military appear to be lying about
having him in custody - if there's nothing to hide, there's no
need to lie.

Re the blood - I have to bow to the experts here, but it sure makes
sense that when you cut someone's head off, there's going to be
lots of blood, and if there's not ----

And the audio - it's very clear that the guy with the papers isn't
reading from them - if they were terrorists, and had something to
say, why wouldn't they just film someone saying it? Dubbing the
audio later, when clearly they had audio facilities (when Berg was
giving information on camera) doesn't make sense - unless you're
not Iraqi and don't speak Arabic.

I do think something's very wrong, and I wish someone could get in
touch with Berg's father - he doesn't seem to be a person who would
just stay quiet, and if anyone could get some publicity and get an
enquiry going, surely he could?

[texas is the reason]

41. exactly. berg's dad would blow this whole thing wide open!

[nolabels]

43. People are still checking into 9 /11 and going WOW

A little kick :kick:

[eridani]

45. The problem with that is--

--his dad is probably still dealing with serious grief, and acting like a bunch of papparazzi is probably not the best strategy at this time.

[texas is the reason]

46. i agree, we need to be careful in how we come across.....

and i am sure we all feel great sympathy for him dealing with the loss of his son, but at some point, grief and sorrow must be put aside to seek justice- to salvage something from his son's death. many relatives of murder victims eventually take the stand in court against the perpetrators of thier tragedies, this will be no different, only the case will be tried in the court of public opinion. but you're right, we definately don't want to look like papparazzi. the choice whether to go public or not is his and his alone-but we need to get the facts and theories to him (with the utmost respect and understanding) and let him decide. anyone got his e-mail?

[nolabels]

37. Kick

The guys at work have been pestering me about more info on Nick Berg, this should do fine. I keep on telling them to buy a cheap computer for some internet access, but they never do. Thanks again

[eridani]

47. White chair redux

Absolute values in a picture mean nothing, but ratios can tell you a great deal. At least one geek checked a couple of white chair dimension ratios. Still circumstantial, though.


http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm
Captured from: http://video.bmj.net/Alluh_Akbar.wmv
England’s chair : http://www.aztlan.net/berg_abu_ghraib_video.htm

Definitions

w: width of the armrest column; W: width from the one column to the other; h: height of Berg’s head; H: height from the bottom of the flat part to the top of the armrest

The ratio of w/W of Berg’s chair is 0.09 and is very equal to that of England’s chair. In the case of Berg, H/W=H/h x h/W=1.0 x 0.5=0.5. If H of England’s chair is known, you can calculate the ratio of H/W and compare it to that of Berg’s chair, providing further evidence to show that Berg was in the Prison.

I sincerely ask you to investigate this problem in detail.

Mitsumasa Ohta
Independent Anti-DU Campaigner [e-mail]

(I think he means depleted uranium, folks. ;-) )