New Poll: Did the Republicans launch a pro-Dean media juggernaut?

[jfkennedy]

Poll: Did the Republicans launch a pro-Dean media juggernaut?

http://antiwarmonger.com

Hermes Press:

It makes perfect sense that the Republicans would launch this pro-Dean media juggernaut, since he's the ideal Democratic candidate for the Republicans.

Democratic Party leaders quite correctly maintain that Dean's leftist stance makes him unacceptable to middle America. If he were to win the nomination it could undo years of work to convince American voters that the Democratic Party isn't controlled by its left wing.

http://www.hermes-press.com/HDean/dean_republican.htm

[wheresthemind]

1. I don't thinks its because hes on the left one some issues...

Because he is VERY central. I think its because he could self distruct, things like the slip up at the AFL CIO debates would be exploited to no end up the repubs.

[CWebster]

2. Oh look, another Dean-bashing thread

The boys are on a crusade tonight!

[indigo32]

3. This is the second time this has been posted today

and the top link doesn't work.
this is a dup

[liberalmuse]

4. The arrogance...

I hope it comes back to bite them in the @ss when Dean wins the 2004 presidential election.

I just read the 'Newsweek' article on Dean about an hour ago while getting an oil change. There were a few good things in it, interspersed with the usual b*llsh*t right wing schpiel about how Dean is too liberal, blah, blah, blah. I wouldn't be surprised if Rove had his hand in all the press Dean has been getting lately since he is lusting after him. The article had the smell of a cheap White House hooker all over it.

[indigo32]

7. Did you read the Time article

WAY WORSE.

[Jim Sagle]

5. This thread ain't nuthin' but shit.

[okieinpain]

42. if dean is a leftie, then being a leftie never felt so good

.

[wryter2000]

6. To paraphrase John Cleese

"Right. Do we have any questions that aren't silly?"

[CMT]

8. Of Course not

the momentum of the Dean campaign caused by an army of more than 80,000 volunteers organizing themselves at Meetups and the candidate himself who has given Bush hell and caused crowds as high as 3500 in Austin, Texas and 4000 in Philadelphia to come out and cheer him (to have crowds like that this early is unheard of)--is the reason the media took notice.

[Rose Siding]

27. I haven't seen such an energizing

of these numbers of people for national politics since Bobby.

[Nicholas_J]

9. WEll ltes look at it this way:

Howies the only candidate who ever helped in a Republican campaign.

He assisted his father who campaigned for Nelson Rockerfeller.

P.S.



In the meantime scoring early in the polls gets free media, attracts money and can give a candidate momentum, as Dean has shown. To those who would complain that Dean is too liberal to be competitive in the general election, there are a few obvious retorts. One is that the Democrats' next presidential candidate needs to excite, expand support among, and mobilize minorities, women and young people. Had Al Gore done so in 2000 he would have won handily. The other is that in a general election campaign, a candidate like Dean can clarify his ideas and assuage the concerns that some folks who define themselves as moderates or centrists may have about him.

"Dream on," is the way From would see the above scenario. And he and the DLC have some of their own polls numbers that they believe substantiate their position. Mark Penn, a respected pollster who worked for Bill Clinton, reported a bunch of findings at the DLC convention. Overall the percentage of self-defined Democrats in the nation has declined to its lowest level in seventy years. 32 percent of Americans call themselves Democrats, compared to 30 percent who say they're Republicans and 38 percent who are independents. Only the lowest income group - folks earning $20,000 or less - contains more Democrats than Republicans. While the party's base remains urban minorities, labor and white liberals, this group is "too small in a changing America to guarantee victory" for a Democratic presidential candidate...

The question then for the DLC and Democrats in general is what types of issues and approaches to public policy should the party and its candidates emphasize in 2004? The DLC offers an agenda that it calls "...rooted in the values that most Americans share...and a bold, responsible path for realizing it. On a platform of security, opportunity, responsibility, and reform Democrats can confidently...make a case for replacing a Republican administration...that has failed to keep its promises." Specifics of this platform include hiring more police, ending corporate welfare, cutting taxes for the middle class, offering tax credits for those paying for their families health coverage, more pay and tougher standards for teachers, more after school care and family leave, holding absent parents responsible for child support, and vastly expanding Americorps.

This is a sensible and responsible agenda that scrupulously avoids the exaggerated promises and overblown attacks that mark most campaigns. Apparently it polls well among not just Democrats but those all important swing voters. As such, Democrats in leadership roles and in the rank and file would be wise to take this agenda seriously. So would Dean, whose numbers may not look so good at all if two of those three "establishment" Democrats mentioned above drop out, leaving one - John Kerry perhaps - to consolidate support among moderate, centrist Democrats.


http://www.politicsnj.com/rebovich080303.htm

If you looks to the polls done by the DLC, and compare them to the economic group that Dean gets his promary support from, relatively wealthy white middle class, or their college kids, Dean has little to NO support from the majority of the demcratic part'y base. Which is largely poor, or minority based.

Essentially Dean won five Vermont elections by out Republicaning Republicans.
So much that Dean both split the DEmocratic and Republican party in his last election.

Democrats and Progressive ran from the Dean platform, and Republicans rushed towards it........


Dean kept his distance from his party’s liberals during his governorship.

"He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements," said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats’ liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee.


Certainly the Democratic caucus was never 100 percent behind him and where there were differences, it was around how progressive or how moderate he was," Chard said.

Rivers blames Dean for helping a third political party to flourish in Vermont that many say siphons votes from Democrats. "The Progressive Party gained some momentum during his years as governor because he was so conservative," Rivers said, although she said she still may support Dean for president.

http://premium1.fosters.com/2003/news/may%5F03/may%5F19/news/reg%5Fvt0519a.asp


But now lets look at how Dean effected REPUBLICANS:

Some Republicans back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER - Democratic Gov. Howard Dean got a boost from the other side Thursday when a group of prominent Republicans turned out to support his re-election bid.

Led by South Burlington attorney William Gilbert, a core group of 11 Republicans said they believed Dean has proven his ability to lead the state in a fiscally responsible direction and for that reason, and his nine years of experience, he is their choice over GOP candidate Ruth Dwyer

The group, known as "Republicans for Dean" represents the first organized GOP endorsement for Dean in any of his five campaigns.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/re

Dean is the perfect candidate for the Republicans. SO conservative, that he alienated the liberal in the DEmocratic Party,

But his attempting to come off as a "SOCIAL PROGRESIVE" will give the Bush campaign machine a perfect target. Deans passing of Civil Unions will alienate the large block of Southern, Socially COnservative, but Fiscally Liberal democrats as well.

A better democrat to run against BUsh to give Bush a win could not have been designed by Karl Rove as well as Dean has designed his own campaign.

[CMT]

11. While she isn't a candidate Hillary was a Goldwater girl in '64

and Barry was alot more conservative than Nelson Rockefeller ever was.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Goldwater Sounds Pretty Good Compared to Bush

I love the Goldwater quote in HRC's Living History re: gays in the military:

"I don't care if they are straight as long as they can shoot straight."

[CMT]

26. I agree

I was just making the point to Nick that it shouldn't be held against Dean because Dean supported Nelson Rockefeller since Hillary Clinton supported Goldwater in '64. And I agree that Goldwater was a true conservative in the best sence of the word--as the years went by he really mellowed.

Also JFK privately supported Nixon in his 1950 Senate race against Helen Gahagan Douglas.

[Nicholas_J]

10. Yup Dean made the worse mistake possible

He started out trying to play progressive when he is anything but, and now has to try to move to the middle.

The way to win is start from the middle and stay there until you are elected, and THEN move to the left.

[sujan]

17. yup

Then forget about kerry, Joe Lieberman will get the nomination.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. NO!!!!

They are to Busy Stealing California!!!!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[indigo32]

14. Woah

there isn't any need for name calling like that.

[Ardee]

15. gee, how do you really feel?

dont hold back now ,step on up, dont be shy, or even tempered, or rational....dare I say sane?

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

19. Oh, I'm completely sane...but, Net persona is not so sane :)

Check out the DU name, that should give you some suggestion on where my frustrations rest with this wishy-washy liberal crap.

BTW - when did the DU moderators become so harsh in their "deleted message" use?

JB

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. you forgot to call him a nattering nabob of negativism

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. I Have Problems With A Dean Candidacy

but this bashing is counter-productive.

I feel that what unites us is greater than what divides us and what unites us is defeating Bush.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

21. What's the alternative? Invertebrate Pseudo-liberal candidates?

If not Dean, then who? Kerry? Welcome to yet another poll driven sociopath Democratic candidate. Graham? Maybe, but he's going nowhere fast (maybe good VP candidate). Clark? Is he really a Democrat or just a Repuke third-party spoiler? Same can be said for Nader the Ass. Edwards? He's cute...might get superficial middle-American female votes, but not much movement on the whole. Mosley-Braun? Great person, good candidate...but, America is still too racist to even consider a black President, let alone a black female President (sad, but true). Lieberman? He's not worth the toe jam I cleaned from between my toes last night...might as well take off the veil and go back to the Repukes. Kucinitch(sic)? Yet another case where a forceful voice is not paid attention to due to looks and physical stature (sad, but true)...he's going nowhere.

If we don't pull together behind a candidate that will shake up the lazy ass wimp Democrats, we are damned to failure.

JB

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I Want A Candidate Who Can Beat Bush... Any Dem Will Do

Show me a scenario where Dean can do what no northern Democrat since John Kennedy has done; carry a majority of southern and border states.

If our candidate isn't competitive in the South and Border States even the righteous anger of every man and woman who has ever felt the iron heal of Republican oppression on their neck won't do a damn bit of good.


I want to win.... Everything else is commentary.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. You critics also said he couldn't raise money

You said he couldn't attract independents. I guess you have created another stupid rule that Dean can break. Maybe you should quit while your ahead.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. In My Best Al Gore Voice No Need To Get Snippy

The personal invective betrays the weakness of your argument.

Show me where I said Dean couldn't raise money or attract independents.

If you can't I hope you are man enough to apologize.

[Classical_Liberal]

30. Why because I called you a critic?

grow a thicker skin.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. you said i was stupid.

I try to be civil.


And I never said Dean couldn't raise money or attract independents.

[Classical_Liberal]

35. No I said those rules were stupid and they are

Each of those past elections you cited could be attributed to other things. If a Southerner had run instead of Humphrey on a desegregation platform he would have lost as well, that is why Johnson didn't run for a second term. If McGovern had lied like Nixon and kept us in the war, he would have been impeached. Mondale and Dukakis had no charisma, which is not Kennedy like, ect.... ect....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. Yes, Mondale and Dukakis Were Not Charismatic Figures

but I would argue that that their loss was not a function of their lack of charisma but their failure to connect on a cultural level with white southerners.

The Republicans basically own the South- they have the lion's share of House and Senate seats as well as the lion's share of state legislatures. I don't think they are inherently more charismatic so I look elsewhere.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. Epidemiologists look for patterns, detectives look for patterns ,

gamblers look for patterns and social scientists look for patterns.

I guess to embrace your logic they are making stupid rules.

The last non-southern Democrat to carry a majority of southern states was John Kennedy forty three years ago or eleven presidetial election cycle ago.

1968- Hunbert Humphrey lost every southern state except Texas which he would have lost if not for LBJ's Herculean shadow and George Wallace's third party candidacy.

1972- George McGovern loses the entire south


1984- Walter Mondale loses the entire south


1988- Michael Dukakis loses the entire south with the exception of West Virginia.

History's not destiny but it's a damn good guide.

[Classical_Liberal]

32. So should Dean bring back Jim Crow?

That is why Humphrey lost.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Please elaborate on the Jim Crow analogy

I don't want to be misunderstood.


I am desribing a phenomenon or at least a phenomenon that I see


If a doctor sees a patient who has a cluster of symptoms consistent with cancer and tells the patient he might have cancer doesn't mean he's happy the patient has cancer. He just giving his diagnosis.


That's how I approach politics.


Now, nothing would make me happier than to see a Dem in The White House.

Also, why did you call me a Demnot in a previous thread.

I have never pulled the Republican lever in nearly thirty years of voting and in the primaries I usually vote for the candidate in the middle, not the consevatiive or liberal Dem except for some exceptions.

80 -Ted Kennedy- even was a delegate

84- Gary Hart

88- Al Gore

92- Bob Kerrey

96- No primary

00-Al Gore.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. He thinks Humphrey lost because of LBJ and the Civil Rights Act

but that ignores the fact that LBJ was also associated with the war in Viet Nam. JFK started it (well, actually Eisenhower sent the first Americans in) but the chant was "Hey, hey, LBJ, How many kids did you kill today?" And Humphrey was Johnson's VP so he wasn't trusted to get us out of Viet Nam.
Nixon not only ran a coded racial campaign, he also promised he had a secret plan to end the war.

Jim Crow doesn't explain the Humprey loss, much less the McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis losses. There certainly is a pattern of Northerners not being able to carry the South. It should be considered. I know it's a potential liability for Kucinich.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. Most historians including LBJ's biographers

say LBJ main reason not to seek reelection was the Viet Nam War.


The contemporary South is not a hospitable place to northern Democrats. I doubt you would find many, if any political scientists or historians who would argue elsewise.

[HFishbine]

25. Exactly

"but this bashing is counter-productive."

Check the post count of the poster who started this thread. Somebody is being very clever. Mods will catch on.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I Have Not Started One Anti-Dean Thread

though I have major reservations about his candidacy.

In fact I have not started one anti-any candidate thread since I've been posting but as you can see some of the posters here use the same invective and quasi-intellectual verbal bullying that the Freepers do.

[poskonig]

29. By calling Dean a 'McGovern', 'Mondale' over and over again?

Some pro-Dean juggernaut there.

[killbotfactory]

34. I can taste the sour grapes over the interenet.

Lame. Really, really, lame.

[ibegurpard]

37. Are you sure you're not JFKerry?

As he has taken to referring to himself?
:eyes:

[FubarFly]

41. So is he a closet Republican or McGovernist liberal?

Surely he can't be both. That would be like calling someone a nazi-communist. Maybe he's a closet Republican pretending to be McGovernist liberal in a devious Rovian plot to sabotage the Democratic party by confusing the hell out of it. This is why he's acting like a centrist now- because he's knows we're catching on! He can't blow his cover now! Is that it? Hmm...

Food for thought, my friend. Food for thought.

on edit: Hehe, McMovernist.

[sendero]

43. my problem with this hypothesis....

.... is the utter unpredicability of politics.

The very idea that the pukes are so certain they can defeat a particular candidate that they would run the risk of helping him win the election is *ludicrous*. Nobody gave Bill Clinton a chance and he won, twice. Anybody who is a student of politics and elections knows there is a *huge* unpredictability factor, you cannot play it like a freaking chess game you have to be reactive.

That said, let's put aside the absurdity of the premise and say that is what is going on. If they want someone easy to beat, I can think of at least 3 potential nominees that 90% of people who are paying attention would agree would be even easier than Dean to beat. Why not give them the organized push?

Humbug, or as I prefer, bullsh**.

on edit: someday I hope to find the typos before I post :)

[w13rd0]

44. For a week now...

...this poster has posted an item, twice during the course of the day, that's just chock full of nutty nothingness, and practically nothing in the way of follow-up. I can't figure why my ignore hasn't completely filtered it from my field of view. So, in response...whatever...not as if we haven't seen this same shit from at least three other nicks on a weekly basis. Why even bother responding, just another bombthrowing self-contradicting ((##@#@!$ with a Dean-axe to grind. Nanner nanner boo boo...

Oh, and your stupid posts aren't "polls", so why say they are? It's a broadbrush swipe with no substance and very little thought.

[KoKo]

45. At the end of the article the site urges you to vote for Kerry! ROFL!

After reading through this badly written screed, filled with mis-statements and innuendo....I wondered...who the hell is behind this piece of trash.......and at the end there it was. We urge you to vote for John Kerry.

Just the fact that Howie Kurtz is whining that the "Dean Defense Team" is bombarding him with e-mails was a clue that this piece was designed just to trash Dean. Howie prefers all his freeper e-mailers who bombard him when he praises the Repugs and quotes Rich Lawry and Chris Matthews as sources for his articles..

I'm not even a "Deanie" and found the article ridiculous!

[RetroLounge]

46. Oh look, another Bash Dean thread.

Yawn...

So got anything positive to say about a candidate?

Didn't think so.

[Eloriel]

47. Heheheh The Repugs are going to be VERY surprised. nt

.

[ScreamingMeemie]

48. How surprised am I to see another Dean bashing thread...

Take up knitting.

[newyawker99]

49. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=167565&mesg_id=167565


I am locking this one.


NYer99
DU Moderator