will the jews convert to christianity before the rapture? that's the plan

[mopaul]

i know, it's hard to wrap your mind around, but that's the general plan going on right now. the end timers, who meet with bush once a week, are praying real hard for sharon to kill arafat and stompeth the palastinians into hell and regaining some holy shrine of david and claiming it again for the jews or some shit.

the christian fanatics running our government would like to hasten the rapture a bit by finally bringing about bible prophecy about the end of the world and the regaining of israel from the enemies of the lord. they are serious about this folks.

they believe that just before the end of the world, the jews will all convert to jesus and renounce their judaesim utterly and then the rapture will occur. do you really think that ariel and the zionists will convert to jesus? i don't.

but millions of deluded bornagains do, and they hate muslims as an act of christian faith. they are throwing out all jesus ever said about loving your neighbor and following the golden rule, and they are going back in time to the dark ages and the crusades and applying it to modern times.

religious fanatacism threatens the whole world. and now is the time that they make their stand. we will be fighting them with more than mere words, soon enough. they won't have it any other way. they do not use common sense, just blind faith.

[Vickers]

1. "we will be fighting them with more than mere words, soon enough"

That is the part that folks need to realize. These folks are nuts, and they will need to be dealt with forcefully at some point.

End times, indeed. Time for religious fanaticism of any stripe to end.

[rooboy]

2. Let the MIGHTY EAGLE SOAR... n/t

[mopaul]

3. hear him sing it here..................

http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2002/02/25/ashcroft.sings.wbtv.med.html

[Hubert Flottz]

4. That's why Bush bought that pig farm!

He knew Pork Consumption would be on the rise!

[Sporadicus]

5. Attempting to Force God's Hand

What these fundies are doing is blasphemous - playing God by committing acts designed to create self-fulfilling prophecies. God has Her/His own timetable, and no group is going to influence it through hastening Armageddon, collaborating with certain Jewish fundies to blow up the al-Aqsa mosque, or converting the Jewish people to Christianity.

Actually, these fundies aren't reaching back as far as the middle ages, but to the 1820s and 30s - to non-scriptural doctrines.

[Bronco69]

6. Isn't there a bible passage that says

something like "do not put your lord thy god to the test?" It seems that is exactly what they are doing. And I agree with the other poster who said this will have to be dealt with forcefully at some point.

[mistertrickster]

30. you are correct, sir . . . there's also that little matter of "even the

angels in heaven don't know" when the world will end, but hey, no point in letting the Bible get in the way of your religious beliefs.

[LARED]

7. I don't want to interrupt a good rant, but

they believe that just before the end of the world, the jews will all convert to jesus and renounce their judaesim utterly and then the rapture will occur. do you really think that ariel and the zionists will convert to jesus? i don't.

but millions of deluded bornagains do, and they hate muslims as an act of christian faith. they are throwing out all jesus ever said about loving your neighbor and following the golden rule, and they are going back in time to the dark ages and the crusades and applying it to modern times.

Do you know any born again Christians? The ones I know would be laughing their butts off at what you just posted. They don't believe any of that

[mopaul]

9. my mother and father and brother

and many others actually. these people, in my own immediate family, believe every word of this. i know, it's hard to believe, but literally millions do. you aren't aware of this?

[LARED]

11. Yes, I'm aware that SOME born agains believe that

But most (at least the ones I know) do not.

Edit

Born agains are not a denomination.

[mopaul]

12. read this my doubting friend

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=17021

[LARED]

15. I read it

Not real surprising. But what does it have to do with

they believe that just before the end of the world, the jews will all convert to jesus and renounce their judaesim utterly and then the rapture will occur. do you really think that ariel and the zionists will convert to jesus? i don't.

but millions of deluded bornagains do, and they hate muslims as an act of christian faith. they are throwing out all jesus ever said about loving your neighbor and following the golden rule, and they are going back in time to the dark ages and the crusades and applying it to modern times.

BTW, I am a Jew that considers myself a born again Christian. I am politically a moderate (leaning left) and am very aware of what most born agains' and Jews believe.

You rant was nice hyperbole. I did enjoy it.

[notadmblnd]

27. it's not what the Jews and Born Agains believe....

It what the Zionists and the Fundamentalists believe. There's a very big difference.

[donco6]

14. The ones I've known were very much committed to this idea.

They were members of Bible churches, anything named "BlahBlah Community Church" or Berean or the like. The Left Behind series of books that are so popular right now also espouse this idea.

[LARED]

17. They are committed to this idea ?

but millions of deluded bornagains do, and they hate muslims as an act of christian faith they are throwing out all jesus ever said about loving your neighbor and following the golden rule, and they are going back in time to the dark ages and the crusades and applying it to modern times.

I'm not saying that no one does, but those that do are few and far between.

[donco6]

20. I still stick by my argument.

I believe they HAVE completely lost sight of the golden rule. They certainly don't seem to live by it from what I can see. And they DO ignore Jesus' teachings in favor of the epistles.

I truly would be impressed if someone showed me a church where the members were actually focused on loving their neighbor as themselves. Haven't seen one yet.

[LARED]

22. I agree the golden rule

is not followed much by anyone.

But do you really believe that there are millions of born again Christians that hate Muslims as an act of faith?

[donco6]

23. In actuality, yes.

They'd never say it in so many words, but put to the press in a private voting booth, with the question, "Should we eradicate Islam from the world, by force if necessary?" I truly believe the vast majority of those calling themselves Christian would press "Yes."

If that isn't hate, I don't know what is.

[mistertrickster]

31. The key word is "DELUDED" not born-agains . . .

nt

[Arianrhod]

42. I know hundreds, and every one of them believes it. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. What is so sad is

that the God the Jews and Muslims worship is the same God the Christians worship is the same and only Being from which we all came. Raise us above the distinctions and differences which divide us!

[mopaul]

10. i reminded my mom muslims, jews, and christians worship the same god

the god of abraham. her answer is, islamists worship a false god, and they must be removed from the planet. so, somewhere along the line, the christian bornagains have lost the messeage altogether.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. Tell her

that "Allah" is Arabic for "God". I have Christian friends from the Arab world who have shown me the Bible printed in Arabic. The name for God is "Allah" in their Bibles.

[mopaul]

16. I assure you, telling mom anything is pointless, as with all bornagains

the main thing about their cult is the ability to turn off all thought and logic and rely strictly on faith, so exceptions, no sidetracks, so arguments or discussions. she's been that way for over 35 years now, and my dad and brother too. it was my younger brother who started it all, with a bad acid trip.

[baldguy]

18. Its always struck me odd

The nutcase fundies support Isreal - but only because it must exist before the End Times happen.

They want Isreal to be there just so it can be destroyed.

[mopaul]

19. they want all non christians gone forever

they envision a whole world of christians, it's called spreading the good word. they want to pick up where richard the lionhearted left off. i ain't kiddin, i ain't makin' it up.

[SalParadise]

21. What strikes ME as odd...

is that what these people believe is that this all-powerful, all-knowing god needs to have a patch of earth defined in a political manner before he's able to return to earth.

These people have no concept of reality, that's what makes them dangerous.

[gpandas]

36. reality? n/t

[notadmblnd]

24. I was discussing this with a co-worker just this past Thursady

he is a staunch repub. I was trying to explain to him how the Zionists Jews (of which Sharon is one) is somehow making the US do it's dirty work for them in the middle east. I tried to explain that oil is secondary in their cause.

There will never be peace in the middle east until Isreal has attained their plan for a "Greater Isreal" which includes parts of Egypt, Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia along will all of Jordan.

The Zionist goal is a Jewish "empire" that will usher in the messiah (not the return of, the Jews don't believe in Jesus) which will allow them to rule the world.

This is the answer to the great unanswered question of; "Why do they hate us?" The muslims hate us because we allow ourselves(the west) to be used and decieved by Isreal to attain their Empiric goals.

It's ironic because the fundies believe that the events that are being manipulated by those in power today, will result in the rapture.
They really think that they'll not suffer one iota as all thes events unfold.

[mopaul]

25. WE are all damned to hell, THEY are going to laugh at us in heaven

the ulitimate exclusion of all other religions. in paradise, only christians will be sipping mint julips, not heathens.

the rapture will burn us all dead, while they are lifted into the air by angels to meet god. i ain't making this up

[notadmblnd]

26. I know,

they made us watch the movie at church when I was about 11 or 12. I thought at that time, they're nuts! It's one if the things that eventually turned me from religion altogether.

On one hand you have the god of the old Testament, evil, spiteful, vengeful, Jealous. A God that taunts and teases his children, tempts them and punishes them with wars and disasters when they give in to the temptations.

The fundies explains that all these things happen because mankind was given free will and that God is not responsible for the evil in the world. I don't buy that argument. IF God is our creator, then he/she created everything, including evil.I just could not separate this in my mind as a child, I still can't as an adult.

The fundies have managed to separate these two things, hence we have the new testament and Jesus, who taught love and peace and tolerance. Who come to earth in the guise of a man, but in reality GOD himself. GOD coming to earth to demonstrate to mankind that he could live up to HIS expectations of himself. A god who now was willing to die a human death for all of mankind's sins. And now the only deed we now need to do is accept JC as our savior and no matter what evil acts we commit, all we have to perform, is to ask forgiveness and we'll go to heaven.

It didn't make sense to me then, It sure doesn't make sense to me now.

[Az]

41. In the countless times I have been told this

It never ceases to amaze me that the concept of laughing at someone in hell seems to miss the entire point Jesus seems to have been trying to teach.

[Cassandra]

32. Since the goal of Zionism is not a Jewish empire...

but a Jewish homeland, your definition is wrong. I've no doubt that there are some Jewish fundies who would welcome a Greater Israel that big, but they were not the founders of Zionism and they don't have anywhere near the support they'd like to think they do. I don't care to speak for Christian Zionists, because they are crazy. Maybe your friend would be more willing to listen to you if you made more sense.

[notadmblnd]

38. ok, whatever you say..

I'll not argue with you. I'll just leave this.

In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: "From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates."

Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: "The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon."

[Cassandra]

40. Consider that a wish list.

Remember, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan are just as much constructs of Britain and the UN as Israel is. They were all part of the Ottoman Empire. So Herzl claiming territory before there were official "states" there, and the Jewish Agency staking a religious claim they were hoping might be honored, does not mean that all Zionists, or even most, believe in empire.
BTW, just because the Christian Zionists and the neocons think they're getting something for Israel (which they're not) doesn't mean that oil isn't the goal of the admin. It's a marriage of convenience.

[mmonk]

28. It's really a shame

people believe this sort of stuff in the 21st century. Why are so many Americans so backward and ignorant and believe blindly what hay seed preachers make up about the bible which they don't really have an educated clue about? Where are the sane and rational during this American dark age?

[OneBlueSky]

29. wasn't it Ann Coulter who said something like . . .

we could solve all our problems if we just converted everyone to Christianity? . . . she's as nuts as the fundies, maybe more so . . .

[henslee]

33. Convert "before" the Rapture? How much money do we save?

But seriously... I thought things were getting frosty between BFE and Fundies?

[neebob]

34. So is that why TV preachers go to Israel?

To convert Jews and take over the country? I had no idea.

[AntiCoup2K4]

35. Actually, the Jews convert to Christianity AFTER the Rapture.

This assumes a "pre tribulation" Rapture, where JC pulls His people out of here before the shit hits the fan. After this, the Antichrist reveals himself and all Hell breaks loose on Earth, literally. With the Christians called up to Heaven, this leaves the responsibility for delivering God's message to the Jews, but not neccessarily ALL the Jews.

Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

So thats 144,000, or 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. These Jews are "sealed" by God to protect them from the Antichrist and from God's own wrath.

Naturally, this all presumes that a pre-tribulation Rapture will happen first. I grew up believing in that theory, but have questioned it in more recent years, especially since there's a piece of shit in the White House who seems to fit the description of "Antichrist" pretty well, if it weren't for his alarming stupidity.

[MAlibdem]

37. The thing that scares me most about the end of timers

Is that they aren't in this for the long haul. In fact, the sooner they fuck up the earth, the faster Jesus is gonna have to come to save our sorry asses. So fuck the environment, Jesus will fix it. And fuck people with AIDS and living in poverty, they'll go to hell or be saved come the end of days. Sometimes we're not even on the same wavelength.

[FlaGranny]

39. The Bible says the following

Revelation 7:3-4 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Revelation 14:1-4: "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads....These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

---

This would appear to mean at least 144,000 male Jewish virgins from the 12 tribes must be converted to Christianity. All Jews who did not convert would be destroyned in Armageddon.

I'm not sure what this means for the rest of humanity. But found the following interesting excerpt.

snip - - -

During history, ten of the twelve tribes became "lost" and apparently were assimilated into nearby Pagan cultures. 11 Only a remnant of the combined tribes of Judah and Benjamin survived. A sizeable percentage of the lost tribes probably remained in and near modern-day Israel, and are now Palestinians. Their genetic heritage is indistinguishable from that of Jews. So, if 12,000 representatives are selected from each of the original twelve tribes, then the group might consist mostly of Palestinians.

-----

Found the above at http://www.religioustolerance.org/welcome.htm#new

I'm not familiar with this site, but it looks quite informative.

[Arianrhod]

43. "the jews will all convert to jesus and renounce their judaesim"

To quote my favorite line from Independence Day, "Sir, that's not completelyaccurate." :)

Actually, Revelation 7:4 states that the number of converted Jews will be 144,000. And these will not renounce Judaism, but rather will accept Jesus as the fulfillment of the Mosaic Law and the Prophets. Rather like what Jesus' brother James believed.