"Farenheit 9/11" premieres tomorrow in Australia

[the Kelly Gang]

Farenheit 9/11 opens tomorrow in every city in Australia..

and I'll bring you a full report of the reaction at the opening night !:toast:

[Tosca]

1. Bush on the barbie!

Grill 'im, well done!

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

2. yes..do. Id like to hear the Oz reaction.

Should be good.

[soaky]

3. I have my tickets!

One for Firday, one for Tuesday for a Greens fundraiser :)

[the Kelly Gang]

6. were is the Greens fundraiser ?..post a review as well

[soaky]

32. At the George in St Kilda - 7pm

Will definitely post review!

[Joanne98]

4. We love the Aussies

Watch the movie it's awesome. :) Tell everyone you know.

[olddem43]

5. Nice, but would be better if they could vote here.

[Djinn]

11. don't be TOO sure about that one

the majority of this country (electorally anyway) ACTUALLY voted for the reactionary old git that's been with George all the way, and not just once either - atleast Americans had the good sense NOT to vote for the man pushing permanent war for profit

[the Kelly Gang]

30. hey no..remember the majority actually voted for Big Kim Beazley

and now he's back..51% vote Labor..49% the Coalition but the Libs got the extra seats..I reckon they're in big trouble and a train wreck is heading for them.

[Djinn]

31. that's why I said electorally

the majority of people in a majority of electorates. Doesn't really matter much about teh popular vote - if it did Keating wouldn't have won his either. I'd love to agree with you about Latham's prospects (not he's THAT much of an improvement) but I just don't know about the Australian public anymore

[Placebo]

7. I can't stand Michael Moore.

Why I find Michael Moore both physically repulsive and just annoying as a person (I can't stand his voice or clothes or just the way he frames his arguments), not to mention his movies are really just propaganda and manipulation of statistics and evidence to fit his agenda (to call it a documentary is an insult to all the real documentaries out there, rather, call it a piece of art), F911 is a "good" movie, and anything that spreads the political cause of the left is O.K. by me I guess.

[GregW]

8. Uh - ok

I guess.

:eyes:

[Swamp Rat]

9. Can you refute any of the facts presented in the movie?

Are there any major, glaring falsehoods?

Please explain: "anything that spreads the political cause of the left is O.K. by me I guess."

What are you "guessing" about?

Welcome to DU :toast:

[Placebo]

10. Not right now...

but I'm working on it. :)

Seriously though, I wouldn't take anything Moore does as a documentary after all the problems I saw with "Bowling For Columbine". He lost his credibility with me after that film. (PS I hate guns and am pro-gun control)

[ConsAreLiars]

12. You should go see F9/11

(and Bowling for Columbine, also, since you mistakenly think it was appeal for tighter gun control.)

[Placebo]

14. I saw it already

Was one of the first in line.

[Swamp Rat]

13. Congratulations on hating guns.

I don't, but I don't care for crappy shooters. An "over-n-under" is a cool varmint gun, but I guess that topic belongs in another forum for folks who like to talk about guns. It would also help if we stuck with the topic - F911.

Well, you posted: "his movies are really just propaganda and manipulation of statistics and evidence to fit his agenda (to call it a documentary is an insult to all the real documentaries out there, rather, call it a piece of art)."

I assumed you had evidence to back up your statement, especially since you accused him of "manipulation of statistics and evidence." Since you said that, I figured that you knew specifically about some concrete evidence and not just something a person makes up in the course of a conversation. Then you professed to know about documentary film making and verité, yet you neglected to post the substance behind that statement.

I am trying to understand you better, but you leave me with even more questions than before.

[Placebo]

15. "Bowling for Columbine" is FULL of them!

#1: He gives raw numbers of people killed by gun deaths in many countries but failed to adjust it for the varying populations. There may be 60 deaths in France (example, i can't remember the exact numbers from the film, i haven't seen it in a while), and 600 in America, but the population of france is only 20something million. His portrayal is simply not accurate.

#2: He goes to a Lockheed Martin plant to interogate the people who work there about how they can build rockets that carry nuclear warheads, so close to Columbine, and how that might have effected the environment of violence in America. He fails to note that the plant in question makes rockets to launch telecommunication satellites, not nuclear weapons.

#3: He tries to turn 3 Canadian teenagers walking out of a Taco Bell in the afternoon into expert spokesmen about how in Canada people just try and talk out their problems and everything isn't seen as a fight, but how America is bad bad bad.

The list goes on, and that's only for one movie. I can't put my faith in EVERYTHING presented in F911 after knowing that this man hasn't been fully honest and accurate in the past. His credibility is shot. And while I agree with a lot of what's said, and the conclusions made in F911, I don't think you can call it a documentary, just like you couldn't call BFC one. I look at it the way I look at a political cartoon; funny and amusing, but I'll get my facts from someone else.

[Swamp Rat]

16. Yet again, you post NO facts.

#1 Facts/Links missing

#2 Facts/Links missing

#3 Facts/Links missing

#4 Facts/Links missing backing up your refutation/critique of F911

And yes, F911 is a documentary. Prove that it is not, with concrete examples please. You say "his credibility is shot" yet you provide NO concrete proof, let alone an intellectual construct supporting your blanket statements.

Are you getting frustrated yet? I am because you have left me, yet again, with more questions than before.

[Placebo]

18. Here...

#1 – http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/countries.htm

#2 – http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/lockheedmartin.htm

#3 - http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/cankids.htm

And many more if you just research it online.

[Swamp Rat]

21. HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You give me ONE freeper site.

You are such a riot!

I'm still waiting for those pesky facts. C'mon! You can do better than this, can't you?

[ronabop]

23. Ah, that site.

Those folks make me giggle. For them to say Moore is fabricating evidence is just laughable. To truly give them justice and correction would take days.

Here's just a sample:
On link two Moore is quoted:
"So you don't think our kids say to themselves, 'Gee, you know, Dad goes off to the factory every day and, you know, he builds missiles. These are weapons of mass destruction.' What's the difference between that mass destruction and the mass destruction over at Columbine High School?'"

Moore is speaking for a collective (our kids), unless you honestly believe that every child has a parent working in that missile factory. The page blithely ignores this in the first argument (by Dave Kopel).... and continues on with similar siliness.

-Bop

[ConsAreLiars]

17. You might want to get YOUR facts straight first

For example. the BS in your claim about France vs. US:
Homicide Rates per 100,000 population in 2000
5.64 U.S.A.
1.79 France

Go here for a clue: http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/homicide.htm

If you are going to charge deception in BfC then at least don't use bogus "facts" to make your case.

Your #2 is equally bogus since he doesn't do what you claim.
Same for #3. You sure you saw it?

[Placebo]

19. Just because..

...I don't go along with the rest of you and rave about how much I love F911 & BfC and how great they are, then, I must not have actually seen them? Oh please.

[ConsAreLiars]

22. If you misrepresent the content of the films then the charitable

assumption is that you haven't seen them. If you actually went (actually,you only talk about the content of BfC) and still claim that they include the "deceptions" you refer to, then a less charitable interpretation is called for.

[Swamp Rat]

24. Please give us some substance to your statements.

You come here and profess to know many things yet you share nothing... except an obnoxious freeper site.

[Pachamama]

27. What was your favorite & least favorite part of the movies?

And don't recite anything from any trailers you might have seen....

List something that only someone who saw the moview would know?

No one by the way asks or requires people to "go along" with the rest of us....

Since your a newbie, your familiarity with the way the DU works is that we love lively discussions, but when someone makes a statement (especially attacking someone we for the most part respect) we want to know where you are coming from and what facts you use to back it up with.

There are a lot of Freepers that come on here and post and have actually never seen these movies and just quote sites like the one you listed....

[Placebo]

28. My favourite parts...

Were definitely showing all the bush administration officials getting ready prior to going on the air, getting powdered and staring blankly ahead, the hillarious moment when wolfowitz uses spit to try and fix his hair and then a staffer or something spits in his own hand to put it into wolfowitz's head, HILLARIOUS, also ashcroft going "make me look young" and singing his LET THE EAGLE SOAR! song.

I also loved seeing BUSH-41 walking around with Saudi's saying things like "always nice to be amongst friends".

The bit about Oregon's border was killer, one part-time trooper to guard 100 miles of open US Coast.

All the parts dealing with the military I agree with, the recruiters going around in poor neighborhoods practically promising kids record deals to join was disturbing. And of course, the mother reading the last letter her son sent her from Iraq before he was killed. (they even deducted the 5 days he hadn't been on-duty from his last paycheck...EVEN THOUGH HE WAS DEAD!

And the moment when I was truly filled with the most hate was when that republican bitch was like "THIS IS ALL A LIE! YOUR SON DIDN'T DIE IN IRAQ! OH YEA??? WELL WHERE DID HE DIE THEN? THIS IS ALL AN ACT!" across from the White House, when the mother who lost her son goes to D.C. for some job related thing conference but decides to browse the city on her own in her free time.

The meeting to talk about "Re-Building Iraq" was scary too, and only makes me hate this corporate occupation of Iraq even more. (even though nothing there was news to me, i've been reading about it for some time, it was more effective to be seen in full motion however)

the problems I have with F911 are minimal, and like i said, I loved the film, I think everyone should go see it, BfC just really hurt Moore's crediblity in my eyes, that's all. Hell, i don't think moore went far enough in F911, we all know that 757 never crashed into the pentagon, and that even the WTC attacks have far too many questions still unanswered.

>>> http://physics911.org/net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3

[ronabop]

20. Riiiiight.

1. No lies or factual errors here. This is an NRA talking point, trying to show an "error" where there is none. As far as gun deaths per capita, his point still stands up, mentioning the ratio doesn't actually change anything. If it *wasn't* an NRA talking point, they might complain that Moore didn't adjust the numbers for guns owned in the country (which makes the gun death numbers look even worse).... but there's still no lie or error.

2. You are adding factual errors, not Moore. That particular factory was instrumental in making Titan ICBM's (there's a great Titan museum in Tucson), and currently makes rockets for launching both military and civillian payloads. So, they did build nuke rockets, and they are still launching weapons technology. You also can't find a line in the movie where he states that they are currently building nukes, because Moore never said such a thing in the movie.

3. Did Moore state that the taco bell canadians were sociologists or something? How exactly did he portray them as "expert spokemen"? What kind of idiot would it take to believe that they actually *were* expert spokemen?

The lists of Moore's "errors" or "lies" are typically like this. The lists are typically put together with a combination of insinuations and straw man arguments. When looked into deeper, what they reveal is that people can't actually refute a message, so they spin like mad trying to put words in Moore's mouth.

Rent the bowling for columbine DVD, and download one of the "lists of errors". Note how many times the lists mis-portray *exactly* what Moore said, or did, as something completely different.

-Bop

[Pachamama]

25. I have an "over-n-under"...12 gauge...use it for shooting skeet...

...I'm pro-gun control (you just can't hunt very well or shoot those skeet with the AK-47)....

Good questions Swamp Rat...I am always curious when a newbie joins the DU and starts off with statements without backing it up with any evidence or explanations or vagueness...

I thought Bowling for Columbine was great too....

[Swamp Rat]

26. ... and F911 was even better!

I like a 22 long over a 410. They're really safe guns since when cracked open, you KNOW whether they're loaded or not.

[the Kelly Gang]

29. the personal references to Moore are totally invalid in respect of

his films..and he is on record as saying his films are partisan and definitelty made to suit his agenda..which is to get rid of George Bush ( F9/11)..and why should they be anything else ?.. but you have lost me on your criticims of "Bowling"..your 'facts' are very thin and of little substance..for instance the silly piece about unproportional gun deaths in other countries do not change the fact that gun deaths in the US totalty outweigh anywere else. etc etc

These meagre 'facts' you have presented are very typical of the type of Limburgh/Hannity attempts to undermine by distorting to create doubt, followed by being amused by the relatively harmless pieces in 9/11 of politicians to show you are not totally against the film's substance as it contains some enjoyable scenes but the overall presentation is invalid.

It's really probably the result of straying too close to those freeper sites..their bile can be catching and you take the risk of sounding just like one of them.

a documentary is a documentary is a documentary and 'Bowling For Columbine' is an excellent doco and millions around the world agree.