How much damage can four more years of Bush really do?

[Ron Green]

And in what area(s) would it be most significant?

Judicial appointments (most obvious)
Environmental degradation
Neocon war funnies
Free-market madness

Is it possible that the outrage of another term would so rein in the right wing in 2008 (or even 2006) that we could, indeed, get back on a more sane path? Or could there be so much damage in just 4 years that the larger cause will be irrevocably lost? What thoughts about this?

[Melodybe]

1. Bush 2004=Nazi USA 2004, nuff said.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Claire Beth]

2. irreversible damage!....

the SCOTUS is at stake. THAT's a VERY BIG problem if dipwad gets back in.

[Iceburg]

3. I would put WAR with all other nations right near the top ...

[cvoogt]

21. Iraq/n ... whatever

Coming up in December if * stays which he won't:

IRAN. They're already testing Iranian air defenses and trying to get the UN to levy sanctions for nuclear weapons development, which has been debunked by everyone but the neoconartists.

And with Iran there'll be a flowering of democracy from exemplary Israel to Afghanistan. Right, but flowers feed on fertile soil, and how do you fertilize it? With the blood of everyone in the region, including our members of the military. The neocons are going to push new constitutions on not-open-for-trade-enough countries even while returning 'murkah to Salem-style mob mentality and xenophobia.

Use of words like "homeland" will increase. Think of "Lebensraum" for the German Volk .. why, wasn't Germany simply entitled to Bohemia to defend its homeland? And Poland, and the rest of the world. If they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan AND * gets re-"elected," the neocons will be emboldened in their quest for world domination. They'll see even the slightest majority as a mandate for "taking what's rightfully ours" - name your favorite natural resource.

Take a long hard look at democracy, cause if the neocrooks have their way, its life expectancy is circa two months.

[Iceburg]

61. You have the forsight of a WWII vet my friend ...

My father (age 91)a former WWII RAF POW warned me in no uncertain terms in Aug 2002 that * "posed the single greatest threat to peace in our lifetime."

Keep the faith cvoogt, help is on the way.

PS. When in doubt recruit!

[bearfan454]

4. 4 more years of him and

we won't be allowed to vote. Diebold will vote for us. Not like now, huh ?

[bamademo]

5. More terrorist attacks and perpetual martial law...

...even more censorship and total stifling of dissent. Country goes broke, more jobs lost and the middle class goes away. Only hope? Senate and Congress goes Democratic and Smirk gets impeached and imprisoned. :scared:

[Ron Green]

10. Right, I forgot to list the repression of liberty...

It's hard to know how tightly controlled the stories of such repression might be. If the media continue to chase the slimy story (and why not?), then the death of the first amendment might actually make the front page, if it's bloody enough.

[EnfantTerrible]

6. Let's put it this way...

you won't be ALLOWED to ask that question

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdigi420]

8. About as much as a crack smoking chimpanzee in a china shop

[punpirate]

9. How `bout...

terrah, terrah, terrah until the general populace is so freaked out that no one will be able to function properly, crime and civil strife go up, military used to bring order, more crackdowns on dissent and protest, travel becomes next to impossible without "special" credentials. That sort of thing. Happening now in some ways.

What happens when jobs continue to decline and foreclosures rise, desperation sets in, people start burning down their houses for the insurance, looting in the cities appears again?

What happens if terrorists find a new way to break security and there's another big loss of life?

What happens when Powell leaves and Condoleezza Rice is put in charge of the State Dept. (having the opportunity to fuck up yet another job)?

Life could get really ugly in a short space of time--and that sort of situation would be ripe for the authoritarian types in the administration to take charge.

Don't mean to put everyone on a downer, but I don't think things can better in another four years, just worse. The $64,000 question is, "how much worse?"

Cheers.

[Ron Green]

12. Yes, this is my question...how ugly, and in how short a time?

Some things seem to work on short cycles (the public's attention span) and some on longer ones (the passage of good laws). I'm just wondering what real outcomes might be if they steal it again, or scare enough people into voting for them.

[punpirate]

18. The economy can turn really sour in a matter of months...

... and if that happens, a lot of what I project could happen rather quickly--more crime and civil strife, certainly, as people become more desperate.

The Bushies and the wingers in Congress would then want to push through, very quickly, a new program of tax cuts--to really break the back of the working class and government social programs. Then one might see changes in minimum wage, lending practices, etc. Fewer entitlement programs and more unfunded mandates pushed onto the states. If the economy took a sharp dip (let's say that large foreign private and institutional investors just get fed up with the US government's profligate spending, pull their money out of the country and start putting their money into China or Europe), it could go downhill rapidly in about six months.

Don't want it to happen, but it could with this bunch--they think they're invincible and never wrong. Bad set of attitudes for running a country as big as this one.

Cheers.

[Ron Green]

22. Then is your view that any true backlash against the admin.

would be suppressed by the media? The frog in the slowly-heated pot, as it were, rather than the boiling one.

[punpirate]

26. Nope...

... I think, at first, it would be played up by our current media to foster a belief in the public that stronger law and order/security measures were necessary.

Later, who knows? The media in this country have a very strong self-interest. If they felt threatened, they might become a help again, rather than a hindrance, to democracy. If they were making lots of money, yeah, they might eventually suppress info that threatened the government.

Truthfully, I don't give the media many points for truthfulness and diligence these days.... *sigh*

[LosinIt]

11. It would do a shitload to my mental health

I can't keep it together for another four years while I am seething with anger.

[Nay]

24. Ain't that the truth, LosinIt! I have hardly been able to keep sane

myself, listening to all the RW shit. Another 4 years...shit, let me check in to the mental hospital right now.

[CBHagman]

38. I feel the same as both of you.

One of the few things that keeps me going is the realization that no matter who wins (or who "wins," if you know what I mean) in November, we will still have to fight for justice. That's the nature of the system. The Republicans are going to be ticked off no matter what happens (sore winners, as a recently published book termed them), and they would try to thwart a Kerry administration.

If they keep control of all three branches, they will still be mean and angry, but they will also be burdened. Second terms are when the scandals come out and the air begins to take on the stench of rotted fish. Bush will be punished; it's a question of when.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Enough to make me hold my nose and vote for Kerry.

Although I got very used to holding my nose for Clinton, and justified it by convincing myself that BushI/Dole would be worse, it did take a lot of convincing.

In this case, it's still difficult, but Gooberya is really a special case. A complete idiot controlled by truly evil forces.

[CarolynEC]

14. Just four more years? Nuh-uh. Kiss the 22nd Amendment goodbye...

... declaring Bush king for life will be top priority for these snakes.

[serryjw]

63. 22 would be gone in 2-3 years

he would stay in power until he wanted to leave.

[catmandu57]

15. It wouldn't be just four years

The house of bush* would start imperial america. The America that we know will cease to exist. Unemployment will be a thing of the past though, because every able bodied person will be in the military, or busy making the supplies and singing patriotic songs all the shift.
Unions will be history, the epa will be history, osha gone, minimum wage gone, every social program will be history and the only ones with a hope of saying anything will be those of great wealth. Not the wealthy, but super wealthy will be in charge, hopefully we'll never live that long.

[Ron Green]

17. Wow. So you're saying there wouldn't be a massive backlash? n/t

[Bridget Burke]

20. Perhaps eventually.

But how many lives would it be worth? How many new wars? How many sicknesses caused by the suffering environment? How many people losing medical care?

Wasn't that one of Nader's ideas--let it get really bad to bring about the end of the Republicrats? No, thanks.

[lapfog_1]

16. Absolute worst case?

His feeling that HE needs to carry out biblical prophecy.
And that means the end of civilization. Nuclear war. Billions
dead. And I'm not kidding. Read the "Left Behind" books (well
at least one).

[Ricdude]

19. Funny, after the last time I asked that question...

... (without the "more", obviously), I'm not interested in finding out the answer.

[devinsgram]

23. Let's see,

two words come to mind "nuclear bomb".

[Ron Green]

28. Another possibility I didn't list...the neocons would prefer not to go

nuclear, I think, but I wonder how much more destabilized things would become under continued Bush rule. The RW would have us think that the nuclear specter is greater with a "wimp" like Kerry.

[Athame]

25. I don't know, but

to paraphrase Rudy...
"It will be more than we can bear."

[Lone_Wolf]

27. He and his friends could destroy the world in 4 yrs.

I am most worried about his assinine environmental policies. I'd say there is a good chance that they could bring about abrupt and cataclysmic changes to the environment.

The thing I am worried about next is their love for war. Space based weaponry (a.k.a. Missile Defense) will almost certainly start another arms race with both Russia and China. There only defense will be to create more ICBMs. The theory being to flood our missile defense system with so many ICBMs that it will overwhelm its capabilities.

Who knows what bioweaponry these ghouls are having wet dreams about. The bioweaponry that PNAC covets which will target specific genotypes is particularly worrisome.

[bobbyboucher]

29. We're out of time. NO MORE YEARS.

It might already be too late.

[Ron Green]

32. That's another good point. It might already have happened.

The fact that we couldn't get Dennis Kucinich, arguably the best candidate of my lifetime, more than a handful of delegates to the convention, shows that the whole process may have already been co-opted beyond repair. In other words, the chances for a progressive and human administration to lead the world toward a better future has come and gone. What a happy thought! Wait, it's not a happy thought.

[serryjw]

64. DK was our only hope.......

can I marry you? there are so few men that understand this

[Ron Green]

77. Thanks for the invitation, but my wife won't cooperate...

and unfortunately, our hidebound political process won't cooperate either. Dennis is too good a man, has too good a message to ever make it in the Big Time. There are too many fearful pundits ready to point him out as a pencil-necked geek with wild ideas. I mean, listen to what an asshole like Hannity says about Kerry, for God's sake! "Out of the mainstream," my a__!!

:eyes:

[serryjw]

78. Paul Wellstone got too powerful.....

..and look what they did to him.

[Occulus]

76. we gave corporations the same rights we humans have

That was our first and single largest modern-era mistake.

[serryjw]

79. 1886 is NOT exactly modern-era......

but I absolutely agree with your thoughts.

[KitSileya]

30. I suggest you read George Orwell's 1984.

That's the way it'll be, even more than now, with doublethink, newspeak, perpetual war/terror, and Big Brother is watching. I have deliberately not picked up my college edition of 1984 and reread it since the last decade, because I'm afraid I'll totally freak out when I realize how close to realizing that society Bush and his neo-cons have gotten. Thank God I live in Norway - I wouldn't move back to the States until Bush and co have been thoroughly cleaned out of office if you gave me $1mill.

KitSileya

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

36. That's good fiction, but may better...

to read the book of Revelation.

[Ron Green]

39. In today's context I believe that "1984" is not complete without

"Brave New World." Orwell envisioned a communist-style totalitarian regime, while Huxley's vision had to do with being a happy consumer. Now that the corporations are acquiring the government, we have both!

[KitSileya]

44. Absolutely.

Back in college, I took a course called Utopias and Dystopias. Discard all utopias, and take the worst features from the dystopias, and there you'll have America anno 2008, 2012, 2016, if Bush wins in 2004. The Handmaid's tale, for the women, Brave New World for the consumers, 1984 for people interested in politics, Animal Farm for workers, Farenheit 451 for academics, Woman on the Edge of Time for poor people - the list is endless, and most of us can find the dystopia we fear the most, and most likely we'll see the salient features realized under Bush's continued rule.

KitSileya

[hiphopnation]

31. Judicial appointments

is the most dangerous, IMHO. Scores of judges interpreting the law to the liking of the hard-lined, paranoid, queer hating, rightwing, pro-life/death (penalty), fundamentalist minority. Yikes...

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

33. Armageddon

The end of the world as we know it. The epic clash of religious fundamentalism, Christianity vs. Islam. Israel will be left to rule the world. I hate to be like the crazy man on the street carrying the sign that says "Prepare to meet thy doom!" but I fear we're getting near the end of times.

Little will restore my faith that Abaddon is not about to be released upon humanity short of George Bush losing this election.

If he wins, the world is doomed.

DOOMED, I SAY!

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

51. Think I'm kidding? READ THIS!

http://bibleprophecy.net/deceived.htm

I kid you not.

I'm not even Christian, but I think theres something to the religion. My grandmother was a very religious woman, and I've never met anyone like her on this Earth. And she could do some very spooky things to (bless away warts, pain, burns) really bizarre. I wish she was here to read this and tell me what she thinks.

[MsConduct]

34. you are kidding, right?

There will be more homeless, more poverty, more Big Brother, more invasions of other countries and plenty of rioting in the streets. I don't really think that the damage can be put in a nutshell. We've lost TOO MUCH already.

[Ron Green]

37. No, I'm not kidding, but I'm willing to consider the possibility that

it may actually happen. And I'm just wondering if the backlash will bring us back to where we are better off, or if the damage can be so severe in 4 years that we'll never recover. As one of the posters pointed out, Nader has raised this question.

[MsConduct]

55. point of no return....

I believe we will not be a democracy any more if bush gets four more years. I think we will be a third world country by then. He and his cronies are robbing us blind now. We will no civil rights, no freedom. We will have nothing.

No, we will not be better off if he steals another four years.

[Javaman]

66. When we had the election thrown in 2000...

We became nothing more than a 3rd world nation, because this time around we are having international election monitors.
We are supposed to be the example to live by, but now we are no better that the election stealing thugs of the third world. And how many people respect those third world nations?
It will take many many years to regain our reputation in the world, if ever.

[MsConduct]

81. no respect

An that subject, I think Bush's actions has made it easier for the countries who don't like us anyway, to have a really good reason to show us their contempt. We have a lot of work to do to clean up this mess, fer sure.

Peace

[Kool Kitty]

57. You wonder if the backlash would bring us back

to where we were better off? Look at how bad this past four years have been. I can't even imagine how bad it would get if this POS gets four more years. Look at what has been done so far.

Four more years? We wouldn't survive four more years.

[Javaman]

67. Only one answer if moron gets reappointed, DLF...

Democratic Liberation Front...

[CBHagman]

35. The environment, foreign policy, and judicial branch...

...would possibly be among the worst as far as long-term results. Granted, that's a pretty broad group, but the administration policies are so short-sighted, wrong-headed, and just plain dangerous that it's hard to exaggerate the damage that could be done.

For example, just considering the Supreme Court, a second Bush administration could appoint two to three more justices, possibly overturning Roe v. Wade and a few other things.

Lifetime appointments guarantee the influence of the judges throughout the decades.

However, it's possible that the Democrats could block nominees, even for another four years. The 'cans will whine about it, but they weren't moved to action when Rehnquist himself weighed in on the shortage of judges during Clinton's administration, in which te GOP blocked judges and other appointees for years.

The foreign policy area is the most blood-curdling, insominia-inducing area -- failure to finance verification of nuclear programs, alienating allies and potential allies, increasing anti-Americanism around the globe.

Huge levels of debt owed to foreign sources is also a danger.

Maybe Bush is MEANT to end America's reign as the last superpower. It's crossed my mind more than once. At any rate, those who imagine a second Bush administration will be their glory days are in for a rude awakening. Even though the Republicans will feel like gods, they will also be stuck with the responsibility for Cheneying things up beyond all recognition. It's not going to feel like power when they are on their knees over crushing debt, a dangerous national security situation, and an angry populace.

[indepat]

40. Catastrophic

[Zorra]

41. It would be the darkest, most violent and repressive era in human

history, Bu$h would end democracy and establish a permanent fascist totalitarian dictatorship, and it would ultimately be the beginning of the end of life on earth.

[sffreeways]

42. How much damage

was Hitler able to do in four years ? Four more years and Bush will be Emperor for life.

[Ron Green]

43. Don't you think Americans will stand up to him? Or will we be

like the Germans of the 1930's? I'm very interested in this: can we become so nazified that we'll allow a Maximum Leader to occupy the White House? Does the fact that he's so craven and stupid make it easier, or just more bizarre and unlikely?

[serryjw]

80. With NO FREE media........

how would anyone know? Look at the damage he has done in 4 years and half the country thinks he's wonderful. IMHO, America has become to soft to fight. As long as they can have some assemblence of their present life they won't care...How many on HERE won't give up their cars ( I HAVE!) when we know "PEAK Oil" is around the corner and kids are dying for fossil fuel?

My next 'car'.....It's about $5000 loaded...No gas, no license ( it's a bike!), and no insurance! I will have a strong heart,killer thighs, and save a bunch of kids from dying for this Bushit!...What else can you ask for?

http://www.rhoadescar.com/jumpshow.htm

[pinniped]

45. The environment may just never recover.

This issue alone should be enough to vote the asshole out but too many people are not informed or simply don't care. I would vote that asshole out on that issue alone. But * is such a fuckup there are numerous issues to vote his sorry ass out on.

I still can't believe those assclowns wanted to add hatchery salmon to the wild count to determine endangered species status. Hey let's count that water killing farm raised color added crap salmon too.

Should they count black rhinos in the zoo when determing how many are left in the wild too? There are 1,000 in the zoo and 100 in the game reserve so let's go shoot them.:crazy:

[mtnester]

46. Inconceivable..I don't think any of us can imagine

the extent he could do in the next 4 years...let alone what he could do in 60 days as a lame duck.

[Kat45]

47. We could see the end of our country --

Look at history: countries don't last forever. A country (or empire) has its reign and eventually dies. I fear that bush's policies and actions will cause our country to die. It will exist no more as a nation.

And that's not even the worst-case scenario: in that, the world blows up.

I'm not the kind of person who generally thinks in these terms, but I am terrified of another bush term. :scared:

[VOX]

48. Who the hell even wants to find out? Don't let it get that far!!!

Most of the dark possibilities have been very well laid out in the above posts.

We are definitely at a very serious crossroads in American history. Even with a Kerry victory, the right wing will still have to be dealt with every day. They're not going away, and their attack-machinery is all in place: right-wing media, hate radio, etc. Kerry will have his work cut out for him.

But it's time to stand and fight, or this country will not resemble anything like the one you were born in.

[KamaAina]

49. Words fail me.

So this'll have to do:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[anarchy1999]

50. My first thought was "Don't even begin to ask"........

2nd, 3rd, 4th and so on were much darker I won't even bother to post them. Good Luck. We're getting our passports soon.

[TexasSissy]

52. There won't be a single tree left (that isn't privately owned by a

wealthy person or timber company).

[Geo55]

53. they have already subverted the constitution with the patriot act , with

fear as the tool of choice (notice how they pounded the fear at the RNC) and our "elected" leaders mumbled and acquiested...
image the freedom they will take in the coming years.

[leesa]

56. Let's just say that Ashcroft announced last week that he wants the nice

little concentration camps that Ollie North built filled with those Ashcroft would call traitors to America. That would be all of us here.
These people are insane. They did 9-11 and they intend to take it to all-out war for world control.

[stavka]

58. Iran might well have a nuke...they might use it

That would mean genocide, given the general US reaction to the loss of only 3,000 lives on 9/11 as source material.


Our presumed overreaction to a nation(or religion) defending itself might lead to civil war at home, and certainly would lead to a permanent break with Europe....

That's the worst case I can think of.

[Codeblue]

59. I brought this up a while ago

but nobody would listen to me. They just dismissed me as a crazy anarchist who wants to overthrow the government.

But I say to those people now, who think protesting is the most effective method of getting what you ever imagined...I ask them what are you gonna do when you can't protest? What will you do when your right to protest is thrown away and burned in the incinerators underneath the White House?

And granted, it most likely will be better under Kerry, but I have absolutely no trust in anyone who is still in the race. I think Dennis Kucinich was our only real hope of ever changing anything, but people strayed from him because nobody knew who he was and the media just called him a "little elf" so everyone thought him a little weakling. I think Kerry will be pushed around easier than Kucinich ever would be. Kerry is too moderate for me to trust him. He still thinks of the "War on Terror" as a war that needs to be won.

I say under Kerry, we will most likely remain in our current state. Probably just with more countries liking us. But I think since Bush has been the worst ever, we look at Kerry and think he will be much better than he might actually be. And people forget, in order for Kerry to change things, he will have to go through congress...and if they remain conservative then you can kiss goodbye to any hope you had about life getting better.

I've been planning for revolution for a couple of years now, and until now nobody would listen. I was just a wacko. Now maybe people will listen.

[jbm]

60. a missouri dem senator..(state)

said this at our last dem meeting. (paraphrased)

"I'm going to lay it straight out folks. You haven't seen anything yet. If you think this is bad, wait till you see what happens if you give them four more years. Every single gain we've made and every single thing we've worked for over the past thirty years will be wiped out in one session. If we don't win this you can't imagine how bad things will get".

That's all it took to convince me!

[eridani]

62. A lot of this could happen even if Kerry is elected

You think they are going to give up that easily just because they lose? Keeping in mind the failed coup against FDR, we need to think of who our Smedley Butlers might be.

What could we do to make the country ungovernable in that case? There are a lot of nonviolent options.

[wovenpaint]

65. He'll stop joking

about things being easier if this was a dictatorship (with him as dictator) and just flat out announce it. No more elections to change things after that...

[HuskerDem]

68. Please tell me you are playing the troll.............

hundreds of dead young women performing self surgery in desperation.

Ram-sacked National parks and more babies with asthma

WAR FUNNIES???????????? I won't even justify that shit.

[Carla in Ca]

69. Lets try this

Subject: Jobs
Message:
from John Sweeney of the AFL-CIO:


"He promised to create five million new jobs, and so far he's six million short."

Couldn't agree more.

Now there is a talking point that should be repeated over, and over, and over again

[Cookie wookie]

70. People in USA disappeared, shipped off to

camps like Guantanamo for dissent, under expanded patriot act sections that deal with US "terrorists" who now, according to Patriot's rather broad and vague terms, could be legally called terrorists for something as simple as crossing a police line (nonviolent peaceful protesting).

The media would further be consolidated and concentrated in the hands of a few. The Internet would become further Balkanized. Many things about Patriot: the web sites one visits could be used as "evidence" of some "threat". . . after all, look at the evidence they used to invade Iraq.

The draft comes back.

The economy bankrupt -- what do we have to do to have jobs -- grovel because the corporations have ALL the power and hold us hostage to our jobs. Why would they treat us any differently than they have the people in underdeveloped countries. .. they have been just working for the opportunities, like the bush admin represents, to rob us of everything so we will be their slaves.

Other things, like the supreme court and stacking all the courts with fascist judges (Scalia thinks we have too much freedom!), the destruction of the environment, these have been listed already.

Sometimes I think most Americans just have no clue how serious a situation we are in already. If they win this time, my bet is that there won't be another "free" election in the USA.

Yes, it's a downer. One thing I've come to understand about Americans is that we have this thing about being positive and optimistic so it's some kind of sin to say anything to the opposite. But life is not always rainbows and moonbeams. Look at history. We got into this mess because people just can't believe it is happening or can't bear to have a "bad day" thinking about it.

We'd all better face the fact that this is real. We have a fascist government, fascist media, and half our population are supporting fascists -- either out of pure stupidity or because they themselves have no true moral compass and are as easily manipulated as the Germans were before WWII.

[camero]

71. Deficit not high enough for you?

With four more years of that stewerdship, the US economy will surely collapse from debt.

[Orion82]

72. I will move

if Bush wins.

[EndElectoral]

73. How bout WW III, destruction of Social Security, end of choice, and more

loans from Red China to support our dedicit?

Oh, and forget about personal liberties, and of course Gay Marriage Ban amendment, possible reinstitution of slavery if it helps free markets..well, we kind of already do that, we just use close to slave wages from other countries, and call it free trade...

[Hippo_Tron]

74. I don't know and I DON'T want to find out n/t

[Nikia]

75. He has suprised me by how much damage he has already done

When he became president I laughed at all those people wanting to move to Canada. I didn't think it was good that he was president, but really I didn't think he could be that much worse than his father. Little did I know how much he would exceed my expectations.