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To the citizens of Dirtsville USA: Quit grieving for NYC.............

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:31 PM
Original message
To the citizens of Dirtsville USA: Quit grieving for NYC.............
Since tomorrow is the anniversary of the "excuse" the cowboy uses to attack anybody he wants to. I'm bracing myself for the ongoing images of people in small red state towns exploiting the victims of 9/11.
CNN is already showing people in small town Texas CRYING over New York City's loses. Well, you know what. You never liked New Yorkers. You hated New Yorkers remember. If you really cared about the victims of 9/11 you would vote for John Kerry because that's the only thing they want you to do. But NO! Instead you brought the Bush bastard's convention to ground Zero and thought NYC would be glad to see you.
Instead of getting flowers and candy you got protesters, a half a million of them that said. GO HOME. Do you remember the Evita song...
DON'T CRY FOR ME DIRTSVILLE TEXAS..........
Let's get this straight, Dirtsville, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO YOU and it never will because no self respecting terra-rist would ever attack something so unimportant. It would be like the USA attacking Goatsgrave Yemen. It's never going to happen.
The bottom line is, you don't care about NYC or the pain, all you care about is getting Boosh re-elected and fighting a Holy pissing contest with the darkie Muslims. All in the name of Jesus which you're sure is coming back the day after tomorrow.
Nobody needs this shit, especially the people of NYC who still watch airplanes when they fly overhead. The people in big cities are in more danger than ever thanks to the cowboy's invasion of Iraq. But that's something the good people of Dirtsville don't have to worry about.
So take your flags, your prayers, your rodeos and your country music and stick it. You're waging war because you want too, because you like it and you're not fooling anybody. You're only happy when you have an enemy, if it wasn't 9/11 it would be something else. Like "libruls". At least have the decency to admit that.
Put on your public grieving shows tomorrow because you already have them planned but spare us the DRAMA next year. It didn't happen to you. Get over it.

I know this is harsh and I know not all people in small rural towns are Republicans but they ARE voting for Bush, who is only making big cities more dangerous. This is how I feel about it. Flame away.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Do these people ever stop and
ask themselves why the people of NYC turned out to protest their boy king? If they really want to help NYC they should look further than the blabber coming from the GOP and ask why they are for Kerry in such enormous numbers.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here here.
I'm from Oklahoma and places like that are full of people who are causing most of the problems in the world. There are some very good people in those places but they generally have little political power.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. OMG! Excellent rant!
:thumbsup:
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Harsh? I don't think so, after all
they are the ones saying you are either with us or with the terrorists. So in their minds you are with the terrorists. Rant On Joanne :toast:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. You are wrong. Utterly, totally, and completely wrong.
This is one nation. What happened to us happened to them. And only fools like Falwell thought they wouldn't know that.

Those people you are insulting climbed into their trucks and drove without rest and brought us food and aid. They brought their dogs and their muscles and they dug in the poisonous dirt to find our bodies, hoping to find our survivors.

They poured into every hospital in this nation and gave their blood because they thought we would need it. They opened their wallets and sent money to help the families cope with the loss of their breadwinners.

Don't you dare insult the grief of Americans. It is and was genuine and practical and honest.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Do you live in NYC. then you should know how "safe" invading Iraq
made you. If they would give you their blood, would they give you their vote? Ask them to vote for Kerry and see what they say. I'm living in Dirtsville Ohio and all they care about is Boosh.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I live in NYC. I live in lower Manhattan.
And their vote is their business.

Nobody was ever converted by being insulted, though.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
59. Conversion wasn't the point. She voiced my frustrations - spoke for many
of us in the city. You, I think were maddened by the protests. I was in there. so, we don't all agree. But we still don't deserve to be used by pawns by triumphalistic rednecks.
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
65. I live in a small red state town
Our population is only 4500 people, but we had 3 men crawl out of the Pentagon on their hands and knees 3 years ago today.

9/11 absolutely happened to us.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #65
80. And they lived didn't they? Do you have any idea how many people
die in the inner cities everyday? As a matter of fact, people are dying in poor, small rural towns everyday. The 200 billion dollars we spent in Iraq could have been used to build schools and hospitals right here. The DOD sucks up all the money.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
78. I disagree. If I went to somebody's city and there was a half a million
angry people, I think I would at least have listened to what they had to say. but they didn't. They stuck their fingers in their ears and sang 'God Bless America". The un-American, anti-war commies shouldn't be here ruining OUR convention. Call the police and send them to the Pier Camp. The NERVE! Sticking your fingers in your ears is a really big sign your from Dirtsville. They never listen. You have to insult them. It's the only way to get their attention.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #78
97. Now wait a minute.
You're painting everybody with the same red brush. A lot of those protesters in NYC traveled from their red states and red towns to protest Bush and the Republicans.

You are making a valid point about the hypocrisy of using a tragedy to promote a war, but where you go wrong is your assumption that America is divided into red and blue camps by geography. Wrong-o.

I'm sure there are Republican morans in New York, and there are liberal Democrats in Idaho. Blame the Electoral College but don't blame your team-mates across the country.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. You are right about that
but he or she is right about what's happening now.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. Wrong wrong wrong
You have given way to much credit. Sure a lot of people jumped on the band wagon but I don't feel like I was given any comfort by out of towners during 9-11 and everything they have said and done sense has just pissed me off.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
54. It "was"
But the poster is right, it isn't anymore. Now it's about waving the big hick dick and kicking ass because that's what they like to do. I don't know why they have no self esteem unless they're putting somebody else down, but that's the way it is. The poster is exactly right and if New York City doesn't want George Bush, maybe the rural people who will never be hit by a terrorist attack ought to listen.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here Here!!! As an East Coaster who is only an hour from NYC...
I thank you for this rant. Granted that good people do exist in Middle America, there are many more who want to use our National Tradgedy to hurt the world and to show their own "David Duke" Bigotry.

They can take their UNAMERICAN "Ku Klux Kountry Hate Music" and shove it!

All we here from the the middle of the country is how bad the coasts are. If we are so bad and "immoral" than why do you care what happens to us?

:puke:
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umtalal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hear hear. NYC lives despite your bs!!!!!
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umtalal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. This looked bad. What I meant despite those hillbillies bs. Peace.
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 12:06 AM by umtalal
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Lovecrafty Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am reminded of that Pace Pacante Sauce commercial!
Pace, a San Antonio product, had a commercial where these cowboys are sitting around a campfire and one pulls out a jar of Pacante Sauce. One cowboy asks where it was made, so they read the bottle.

"This stuff was made in New York City!"

"New York City?!!" They cry.

"Somebody get a rope!" one of the cowboys says.

There has NEVER been a deep love and respect for New York, or the North in general in the South! Their fake concern is pathetic!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I was actually thinking of that commerial when I wrote this.....lol
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 10:57 PM by smirkymonkey
It pisses me off to no end when I see someone (usually from Bumfuck, Texas or someplace else in the Bible Belt) go into hysterics over 9/11 when they have no f*ing idea what it's been like for those of us who live here, saw it go down first hand, ran from the debris, lost friends, lost jobs, and lived in fear ever since that the other shoe is about to drop at any time.

New York used to be a magical place to me before that day, but something happened after that event. The innocent mythology of the city was gone forever. If you live here, it's palpable. The RNC convention was a slap in the face to any self respecting New Yorker, and I am sorry, but unless you lived here at that time you have NO CLUE. I can at least understand how others in large American cities feel the same sense of doom or at least feel threatened, they are vulnerable too.

The rest of this country is so quick to dismiss us, condemn us, hate us and then dares to use OUR tragedy to justify THEIR hateful politics. From the way it looks to me, we are not ONE nation and I for one am tired of having my life and my city governed by the fear of others.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. Your welcome Smirkymonkey...........
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hear Hear!!!! NY here!
Im only 14 miles away (Long Island) Bravo! I lost 2 friends in the WTC, one a firefighter and Im with you all the way.
:yourock:



:kick:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. I had no idea this would be so well received....
Ive had this boiling up in me since the RNC convention. Watching the CNN piece just pushed me over.
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. "I had no idea this would be so well received" - Why?
...this kind of parochial ugliness has been around since the first human being stood upright. Congratulations: you've finally managed to lower yourself to the level of the Yankee-hatin' Confederate flag flying nitwits you claim to disdain - and are proud of it. Embrace your inner Repug!
/Sarcasm... :eyes:
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. dubyas blood-pig war loving supporters love to kill babies..
so ill just be wallowing around at this level with joanne. she rox.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah like they cared (and pardon my ignorance here, but)...
NY is a BLUE state with a bunch of liberals and Jews. I'll bet they're REAL sad. (again, putting on my flame suit here)
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. I grew up in a small town.
I live in a small city in a red state. It's the same red state I grew up in, though I lived in other places over the years.

Mr. Nownow and I have a liberal Jewish friend who lives (near his liberal Jewish brother and with his liberal significant other) in Brooklyn and who, at the time of the WTC attack, worked in Manhattan.

I'm not flaming you, nor do I blame you for what your perception of all this is, and I don't think Joanne is completely wrong -- I agree that lots of 'flyover people' have a bad attitude about coastal cities. But, then, we're not the ones who coined the term 'flyover people,' are we?

Let's not forget there are plenty of us liberals living in red states for whom DU is a lifeline. We're donating, or volunteering, or both, to try and get that thief out of the White House, just like you are. We're not rubes, and we're not brainwashed. The Kool-Aid isn't running from our faucets.

The only real concern I had until noon on 9/12/01, to be honest, was whether our friend and his significant other and his brother were okay. Mr Nownow and I didn't very much care who did it, or what happened, we really were just worried about our friends. We didn't bother to think about much else about the whole thing until we found out they were okay -- our friend e-mailed us, about noon the next day, and only then did the rest of it really sink in.

When those of you who live in liberal areas slam those of us who don't, I just wish you'd remember that we'd rather the places we lived were liberal, too -- but we can't change every single person who lives around us. You don't know what we go through on a day-to-day basis, if you don't live here, any more than we know what you go through. Just because we live in red states doesn't mean we're conservative. It means we live in hostile territory, politically and philosophically, whether by choice or not.

Many of us had friends or lovers or relatives about whom we were concerned. No offense intended, just instruction -- that you shrug us off so easily, when we believe much of what you believe about social justice, civil rights and economic fairness, isn't easy for us either.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Your right. I love the liberals that live in Dirtsville. I just wish there
was MORE of them..... :)
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
91. But WHY do they "shrug us off"?
We all mock Bush's idiotic statements on "why do they hate us so much" questions on the Middle East - for our "freedoms", because we "love democracy" etc.... Absolute BS, right?

We know that the reasons millions in the Middle East (and around the world) have such disdain for America are much deeper than that. Our policies endanger (and end) lives and destroy entire countries.

Why do so many in the North and/or big cities have disdain for the South? You and I both know they have good reason, because I'll bet we both discuss the political shortcomings of where we live on a pretty regular basis - with people at home. Joanne is just saying out loud and to a larger geographic audience what we know to be true at home.

I absolutely agree with everything you said in your post about those of us who are striving to make positive change - often against overwhelming odds - in our traditionally conservative areas. I mean that - everything. I feel exactly what you feel.

That said, I try really hard not to get defensive about posts here at DU that target the South or rural America. To a point, anyway - some are just hopelessly ignorant of the diversity that does exist in our areas. In this case, Joanne made a point to recognize that not ALL of us are crying crocodile tears for New York. But she's right that far too many are!
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. they yearn for the day Los Angeles falls into the ocean.
wtf is that all about anyways.. just cause we get earthquakes means the whole place has to die?

dirtsville go fuck yourself.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Remember the Enron tapes? Houston was laughing about that....
Fuck that California hippy Grandma Millie. CA's on fire. Yee haa...
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. Damn, Joanne - outstanding!
I wish I'd written it - but I'm not from NY and it would have been really fake had I done so. :hi:
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hear Hear!!!
Edited on Fri Sep-10-04 11:32 PM by OnionPatch
I'm out here on the left coast and I've long wondered why all these smalltown rednecks are so quick to get teared up about 9-11 but insult people from the big cities every day. Remember the anti-Howard Dean commercial that made fun of everyone who drinks latte and drives a volvo? They hate New York. They're a bunch of phonies. The same as their patriotism.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. I remember that. Latte drinking, body piercing, Hollywood loving......
volvo driving, Big City Blue state libruls. We're awful. I'm surprised they aren't celebrating our deaths tomorrow.
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Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. Sing out, Joanne!
Dirtsville sheds no tears for any of the dead 3,000 NYCers!

They cry only out of fear for their own selves!

Just like Bush wants it!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #22
41. I was born in Dirtsville...... Where there's little opportunity.........
Hit it John Edwards........ :)
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prodigal_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Exactly what I've been saying for three years!!!
Thanks for putting it so finely.

Let me add:

When and if you do find yourself on vacation here, please do NOT ask me for directions to the 9/11 site. And do NOT let me see you standing in front of our pit of sorrows like it is the goddamn Grand Canyon or the Statue of Liberty, taking pictures and buying cheesy photo "remember 9/11" books or left-over twin tower keychains.

We don't gawk at your Columbines or your Wacos or your Oklahoma Cities and buy tchotchkes and t-shirts.

We overwhelmingly rejected the Iraq War and we seethed with fury when you came and ass-raped our city with your convention.
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. Groupthink
9/11 was a visual and visceral experience
for most of the country...like Kennedy's death.
You remember where you were and feelings of
shock.

But I think the media (particularly in NY
and DC) were so wrapped up in this and the
reaction was that America was attacked, not
just those towers, Pentagon, PA plane, people. It
supported the Bush administration on going to
war in Afghanistan, and as we know, facilitate the
plans to attack Iraq in the works.

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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-10-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. I've had similar thoughts floating around in my head for awhile....
Why do people who claim to care so much about the victims of 9/11 not
really want to know what happened that day and why it happened?
Why do people who were not directly affected use 9/11 as and excuse
to feel victimized and pursue vengence?

And I hate it when people use the tragedies of others for their own cheap
emotional catharsis. Its disrespectful to those who have actually been
hurt.



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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. Bravo! n/t
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
31. we're all a degree of separation from catastrophe
The living, I mean. I get your point about injustice committed "in our name", but whose name is it? Lower Manhattanites? Americans? Next of kin?
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Evolutions Eve Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
33. Yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Joanne. Thanks for driving any and every moderate from the Democratic party....woo hoo... good job !!! YAY !!!! I will look down my nose and assume that everyone who doesn't live in NYC is uncultured YAY !!!! I will hate and despise those who disagree with me...YAY !!!! Those tears that the nation shed on 9-11 and continue to do so are fake because they don't live in NYC... YAY !!!!!

You are the epitome of what is wrong with this once great party.

Go ahead moderators...I am new here so go ahead and delete my post. Can't disagree with the great NYC resident Joanne.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. its not "where they live" its the actions they take.
like exploding kids all over the mideast..

but then you knew that already.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. I live in Dirtsville Ohio. I'm a Dirtsville Democrat and proud of it......
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Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #33
64. Take Another Bite out of That Apple, Eve!
Who is whispering in your ear?

No one is talking about culture.

People would show more respect for my dead neighbors by educating themselves about what happened three years ago this instant then wallowing in fear and self pity.



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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thank you.
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 01:07 AM by BiggJawn
I was out in "Dirtsville Indiana" last weekend, and I was mildly disgusted at the local volunteer firemen walking around the festival in their beer guts and "FDNY" hats and "Never Forget" T-shirts like they were some fucking honorary members of FDNY or something.

Bet most of them never even been to a trailer fire.

Hey, shout-out and hugs to any NYC folks who still hurt, but you know what? it didn't happen here. I'm sick of seeing the locals 1,000 miles away from NYC here in the corn belt acting like they breathed the smoke or something.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
37. These are the same folks who applauded John Rocker's remarks about NYC
Remember this:

A Georgia native whose true colors sometimes ran to redneck, Rocker attended both high school and college in Macon. His immature antics could be classified under youthful exuberance until he irrevocably altered his life in a December 1999 interview with S.I. writer Jeff Pearlman. In a bizarre tirade, Rocker imagined riding the city's Number 7 subway train through Queens to Shea Stadium, "next to some kid with purple hair next to some queer with AIDS right next to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time right next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. It's depressing."

As if that wasn't bad enough, Rocker added that, "The biggest thing I don't like about New York are the foreigners. I'm not a very big fan of foreigners. You can walk an entire block in Times Square and not hear anybody speaking English. Asians and Koreans and Vietnamese and Indians and Russians and Spanish people and everything up there. How the hell did they get in this country?" He even referred to a black teammate (undoubtedly first baseman Randall Simon) as a fat monkey.

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplay...
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. John Rocker....slowly I turned
What an embarrassment to the sport.
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YoQuieroLiberty Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
42. You're assuming a lot, aren't you?
Your post drips with nasty condescension, ad hominem attacks, straw men, and just plain meanness.

But whatever. If it makes you feel better to hate people you've never met based on something you think they all believe, then you've done the right thing. But wait...isn't that the same sort of behavior you're expecting of them?

As you said, flame away.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. they wanna nuke kids in mideast or just explode them with regular missle
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 01:27 AM by meow mix
you can go vote for bush too.
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YoQuieroLiberty Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. So there are now degrees of agreement now?
I can go vote for Bush now? Why? Because I take issue with someone spewing bile about the same sort of people that other DUers have converted? Why is someone beneath contempt because of where they live?

Tell me what the critical mass of agreement is so that you will accept my vote for John Kerry in November. Please. I'll try to calibrate accordingly.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. its not where they live its the actions they take. like exploding kids
for some oil. dubya's "base" are accomplices.
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YoQuieroLiberty Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #48
50. Sorry, this is misguided.
So let me get this straight. There is some level of population below which Bush gets 100% of the vote. We call these places 'Dirtsville,' and we've established that these people can go fuck themselves. Check.

Were this true, then shouldn't we expect Bush to win in a huge landslide? There are only so many voters in large urban areas, who nevertheless apparently vote 100% for Kerry.

Why, if Dirtsville can go fuck itself, does Kerry bother with it at all? Why doesn't he just shuttle between large cities, where all the enlightened folk are?

This is one of the goofier threads on DU lately. If you hate the South, just say so and move on. I moved away from it because I didn't like it.

Should Hope, Arkansas, go fuck itself?

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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. it goes without saying that dems in dirtvilles are wonderful rare gems.
i dont even know what the threshold is for achieving dirtsville status.
some studies would have to be done..

this is getting way to complicated for me, and how the heck should i know what kerry should do? im just some guy typing on a msgboard.

all i know is all these republican dubya-base people can rot in hell for what they have done. thats the bottom line, now have some yellow-cake.




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YoQuieroLiberty Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. The point is
that Kerry supporters are everywhere. I see the bumperstickers on all sorts of cars in all sorts of places, including little towns in the places we'd love to stereotype as Bush Country.

It's inconsistent to want Kerry to win, and to encourage me to have yellowcake because I point out that he has support in places you disparage.

Unless you don't want Kerry to win, but instead just want to piss and moan about people you hate. Which appears to be what you're really doing, so carry on.
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. if they are kerry supporters then im confident they would understand.
so who the fuck would be left to care besides the smirking koolaid drinkers.

newsflash: im not kerry. lol just making sure you knew that.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #50
81. Kerry protested the Vietnam war which Dirtsville hasn't forgotten about..
If you haven't noticed. Dirtsville is running the fucking Swift Boat ads. Doesn't it just amaze you how they're still pissed off after 33 yrs. I wasn't surprised at all. The bastards are still pissed because they lost the civil war. I don't know why Kerry is even bothering but I hope it's because there's alot of "others" in the small towns. Somebody needs to give them hope. Not all residents of Dirtsville are Dirtsville.
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sffreeways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #50
90. Should Hope, Arkansas, go fuck itself?
Hope can't go fuck itself but the Bush supporters in Hope can.

If you hate the South, just say so and move on.

I hate the south...moving on.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. I've met them. That's the problem.......
I've spent three decades trying to get Dirtsville to forgive me for the 60's. Well you know what? SCREW'EM. Nothing's good enough and I'm done!
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. oops..delete...
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 07:07 AM by jonnyblitz
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
43. i'm not sure how to feel about this
I'm not from New York but a couple of days ago someone on this or one of the other boards had a link that I clicked on to check it out and it was a video/slideshow of 9/11/01. The pictures were typical of the pictures I've seen a hundred times but still I found myself entranced at the sight of it and watched the whole thing. I thought that I had become almost numb to those pictures but I haven't. I cried through many parts of the slideshow. I still feel the impulse to look away any time I see the pictures of people jumping from the tops of the towers because I feel so empathetic about what that must have felt like and I almost feel like i can't take it.

What you and all New Yorkers experienced that day can never be fully understood by the rest of us who weren't there. But saying "it didn't happen to you, get over it" makes me think that perhaps you don't understand that people in other states, in their own ways, felt like we were there with you. While you were running from the attacks, we sat in horror, watching you run, watching it all, feeling panicked and helpless, and fearful.

But I also understand what you mean in terms of people from other states voting for Bush are putting you in harms way and that makes me angry at them too.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. For the sake of people in NYC... BRING THE TROOPS HOME....
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
44. Did I forget to mention that Ann Coulter grew up in Dirtsville Connecticut
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #44
55. Oh, Joanne, This Can Of Worms Needed to be Opened
I'm one of those native Upstate New Yorkers living in the rural South - which I love, by the way. But I was struck with how quickly the Rebel flags came down and Old Glory went up after 9/11. Previously, we New Yorkers were often spit on. There were many jokes about the only good yankees being dead ones. Not here in Tennessee, i must say, but most definitely in Georgia.

Now, you love me and care about my pain? Hmmmm. I could elaborate, and I did lash out at a few folks, who have forgiven me as they have not burned my house down yet.

But there are bigots and evil people everywhere, and good people in the same places. I'm trying to be a more tolerant, less judgemental person. it's really difficult, though. There was a time when the Bryan meat or Pace Picante sauce commercials would gall me. But now I just think people choose to be ignorant and I can choose to ignore THEM. And to refuse to buy their products.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #55
76. We have something in common. I'm originally from LA. I moved to....
Dirtsville Ohio about ten years ago. The surroundings are nice. Much nicer than a crowded city that I just didn't have the energy to battle anymore. It would be alot nicer though if the citizens of Dirtsville Ohio would grow up and realize not everyone in the big city is out to get them. Their always looking inward. The world is big and it's not ever going to be the way they want it to be which is exactly like them. I've come to the conclusion that Dirtsville has a big inferiority complex and a big chip on its shoulders because people changed. Well people didn't change, the world did and Dirtsville got left behind. They need to accept this and join the rest of us instead of trying to pull us back in time to a place that no longer exists. Grow up Dirtsville. I'm not your enemy.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
56. here's what I think and feel about this...
Wow! Lots of anger on your part. However, I do feel you are entitled to that anger, much the same way I feel those of us in "flyover state" are entitled to feel pain at the attacks on the US. Don't get me wrong, the way the RNC and Repugs have used this tragedy as a "badge of honor" is vile. The way our government has used this tragedy as a way to destroy our Constitution and the once sovereign nation of Iraq is vile.

As far as people from "Dirtsville" not caring about NY or DC, for that matter, before the tragedy is not really relevant. I doubt people in the major enclaves of the east coast took any joy in the destruction in OKC. The difference is that the Democrats didn't make it into a source of "let's get them, and kill'em all" rally cry. As for the assertion that the "flyover states" would not be vulnerable to attack is not accurate either. We may not have the monuments, the numbers of people, or "big targets" that are often associated with attacks. However, seeing the panic that ensued from the 9-11 attacks, I believe the terrorists were taking notes. Perhaps they are thinking..."look how their (the US) culture of fear made them react to 9-11, imagine the amount of fear we could inspire if we attacked "Dirtsville!"" Think about it, if they could inspire a country with such fear with an attack on a major US city, think of the damage they could do if they were to blow up a Wally World in Podunk!? NO ONE would feel safe! Terrorists inspire terror, they do not always look for the biggest target, sometimes they look for the one that will do the most damage to the psyche.

It is very sad that a tragedy of this magnitude has been "hijacked" by home-grown terrorists (mostly right-wingers) to divide this nation, instead of bringing it together! When over 3000 were killed on 9-11, a dagger was stabbed into the heart of the US, not just NY, DC, and PA! I did not personally know anyone who lost their lives, but I was indirectly connected and the pain is just as real. It may not be as intense, but it is real.

Everyday I see the death count in Iraq, American or otherwise, I pray that the occupation will end! And when I see those numbers, it makes me sad that those people died because we have a corrupt regime that took our national tragedy and compounded it and created a national tragedy for those in Iraq!

I apologize for the multiple trains of thought...my thought "trains" often get derailed! :)

Brightest Blessings!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #56
77. NYC, DC, LA, Seattle didn't use OKC because it was a family affair...
Tim McVeigh was from Dirtsville and he attacked his home town. Dirtsville is a state of mind. The 'I'm a real American and your a commie traitor". "A dirty hippie, a fag, a black or a Jew." It doesn't matter if you were born here or not. You gotta be, flag, Jesus, white, patriotic and most of all a capitalist. Nobody's more hated by Dirtsville than a hippie. Long-hair, anti-war commie who quit shopping, supported union boycotts and gave us the awful 70's.
Stock traders still moan at the very mention of the 70's. I wish the people of OKC had dealt with the problem. Nobody attacked the McVeigh's and theirs still plenty of them around.
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prodigal_green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
57. kick
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
58. "911 - I saw it on teevee and boy, I am pissed"
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 06:26 AM by robbedvoter
It was a T-shirt in a ted Rall cartoon and it captured the sentiment perfectly for me. Thank you for this from another fed-up New Yorker.
You just reminded me of a call to C-Span I heard during our August 29 protest: "I find it ironic that they are in NYC and they are not at ground Zero, but protesting W, while I, miles away, I support him"

Yup. Why are we New Yorkers doing anything else but standing in front of ground Zero, worshipping W?
Dang irony!

Whitehouse.org captured this well in their speech for W accepting nomination:


"Now you'd think that the people who actually live in New York City which remains the number one target for terrorists would join us, their red state countrymen, in our glorious orgy of eternal Dockers-soiling paranoia. You'd think that they too would be so paralyzed by fear, they would continuously worship at the temple of my steely squint, and hunger for the Jesus-ordained privilege to cast their ballots for Bush/Cheney '04. And yet, for reasons I will never understand, I stand as good a chance of winning this city as Trent Lott does taking top honors at the Apollo Theatre amateur night.
http://www.georgewbush.org/convention/acceptance.asp

Thanks, Joanne for starting this day right for me. Now I am ready to enjoy our little community garden jamming session as a part of
http://septemberconcert.org/event.html
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devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
60. You are right on the money.
Could not have said it better. I was thinking the same thing the other day. Everybody in middle American crying, putting out their flags and their show of emotion. Phooey on them, they are the ones responsible for what happened in NYC on 9-11. They are the ones who put this idiot in office.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
61. I hereby name this post of the day and suggest it be kicked all day
Let it be the DU's stand on 911. Brilliant!
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
63. great post!!!
:thumbsup:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
66. The 9-11 Fest is going strong this morning
All cable outlets are dripping with it.

I swear, its now like a fricking festival, with food on a stick and booths for your T-shirts and stickers celebrating death.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #66
68. SpongeBob SquarePants is playing in this NYC home.
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 08:10 AM by robbedvoter
It's on Nick. In today's episode he's trying to appear macho, so he's staging a fight...Hmmmm, maybe it is about 911 aftermath.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
67. You'll get no flame from me
I think that was an outstanding rant. Well felt. Thank you.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 08:45 AM
Original message
No flame here either. You speak for many, very eloquently.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
69. Outstanding rant-it needed to be said
:toast:

I went to visit a prospective client the other day-it was TJX Corporation, who lost a number of employees on Flight 11. There was a small memorial in the lobby. Many communities here lost people too, but Dirtsville tends to ignore that as they lambaste John Kerry as another Massachusetts liberal, and shit all over the great state of Mass. I REALLY, REALLY resent sending my federal tax money to Dirtsville.
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
70. Yankee hater
That's me. I live in Dirtsville, USA and I'm still saddened that one of those planes didn't take out Yankee stadium. :evilgrin:

Incidently, the latte drinking, body piercing, hollywood loving, volvo driving dirtsville types around here are all voting for Bush. The world is full of idiots. It's a big demographic.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. All of those people are in Johnson Co.
which swung the entire state for Gore in 2000. I see Kerry-Edwards stuff everywhere. But the Bush people have started putting their signs up. The boy king gets a jump in the polls and now they're suddenly not ashamed, or something.

Anyway, Johnson will carry Iowa for Kerry. Bet on it.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. Saddened, but at least not grieving.Maybe next time, after we "vote wrong
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SpaceCatMeetsMars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
72. I have friends that live in NY and DC.
I have noticed that they are the ones that are brave. They go about their lives and they are voting for Kerry.

I know some other people that live out in the suburbs in a swing state. There is no way in hell they are in any danger from terrorism, but they are the ones that fetishize 9-11 and they are voting for Bush.

They talk all the time about how they are so afraid of terrorists and they supported the Iraq war, even though they knew there was no connection. They just wanted some Arabs punished and didn't care if it was innocent ones. I think they are hateful cowards. They don't care if the victims of 9-11 get exploited, they want to use it to get their party more and more power. They hate Democrats and that's all they care about.
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malachibk Donating Member (780 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
73. AMEN!
I feel the exact same way.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
74. These are the thoughts I had during the RNC
These are the same people who hate the North. They disdain diversity and people who don't think exactly like them. They forget that the people who died on 911 weren't just American or white, they were people of many nations, cultures, colors, and religions. Their rallying cry is 911, their fear is another 911, their reasoning all leads back to 911 and yet the people who were directly affected by 911 and don't feel 911 should be used to wage war all over the world are traitors in the eyes of the new owners of 911. It baffles the mind how the right has hijacked 911.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
79. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......................WOW I guess this struck a cord...
hey i'm not a Christian but i don't have anything against JC. i would even go to church if he would throw out all the Christians. in fact, i'm willing to bet that the churches would be full everyday if only the imposters were removed. Jesus said the rich and greedy are going to Hell. He must have been a socialist.
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
82. Bush dishonors the memory of the dead with his every word and deed
He feeds off the tragedy like an enormous tapeworm in NYC's gut.

I live out on the edge of Dirtsville. I see the alligator tears being cried for NYC.

I honored the memory of the dead by watching 4 hours of protests on CSPAN as New Yorkers defended their city from the rightwing propaganda invasion Bush and the GOP inflicted on them.

Thanks for posting your thoughts, Joanne.
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
84. I would like to add...
Another appalling hypocrisy are the Bush Worshippers who call for all Americans to "Support Our Troops!!" -- when all they really mean is for all Americans to sit down and shut up and let Dubya ram his whole insane agenda down our throats.

They *say* they love our soldiers -- but they are the very first to mock their wounds and laughingly dismiss their service if they don't think the way they "should."

The freeper in this thread accuses us, sight unseen, of being smelly and ugly, but allow me to post this image of True Republican Beauty and Elegance and Nobility.



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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. For the sake of NYC.....Support the troops....BRING THEM HOME........
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
85. thank you for your insight.
My feelings exactly.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
87. No decent, thinking Dirtsvillite would take offense at this
Because if we are honest, we must admit that Joanne's points are dead on with how angry we ourselves feel when we see self-righteous fundamentalist right-wingers in our towns use 9/11 as a rallying cry for Bush's war.

In my small Alabama town there are many more intelligent and thinking people than the stereotypes suggest. That said, I'm not going to waste time trying to convince anyone that they outnumber blind Bush supporters - because they don't.

I cringed while reading part of Joanne's post. It is uncomfortable to hear angry words aimed in your general direction. I was tempted to post a defense of the good people of Dirtsville. But that would just be a diversion from the truth - that there are still far too many among us in Dirtsville who are following Bush's example of exploiting a terrible tragedy for personal gain.

There is such a strong human defense mechanism that tells us it is ok to criticize "our own" but that we should fight to the death should some "outsider" attack us. We in the South (or the Democratic Party, or the U.S., or any other group) need to be brave and truthful enough to admit our shortcomings as well as our strengths.

I know I am not alone among others in rural areas and small towns (in the South or elsewhere) who bitch to one another all the time about the ignorance we see every day here. Let's be big enough to admit that when someone from the "outside" points it out as well. I think it can be done without turning into self-hating wimps.
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MyUncle Donating Member (798 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. NYC was and is populated by Dirtsville USA and Dirtsville world residents.
EOM
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Were you agreeing
or disagreeing with what I said? Or just adding on? I don't know how to respond to your reply!

=)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. Dirtsville does have world residents GOATSGRAVE is their sister city.
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 02:37 PM by Joanne98
:)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Dirtsville is a state of mind. There is alot of GOOD people in small towns
But unfortunantly the people of NYC didn't get them for the convention. They got Dirtsville instead. With they're white cowboy hats with lights blicking on the back. BOY THAT LOOKED COOL. And how about those purple heart bandaids. That was a good idea. Hatred on display for the entire world to see.
I wouldn't mind if Dirtsville grieved for it's own. They could try crying for their neighbor, when her 8 year old son shoots his 2 year old brother because his dumb, drunken, NASCAR dad forgot to lock his guns up. Now that would mean something. But their never going to do it because they've have to wage war on the bastards who outsourced NASCAR daddy's job and that would mean the Republicans. They've have to admit they got taken for a ride and their to PROUD to do that. Especially when every preacher in town is praising the "Divine Right Doctrine" telling them to give the rich another TAX CUT!!!!!!!
There was a time when Dirtsville was something you could respect. They formed the unions, brought in the New Deal and KNEW who they were. As in NOT THE RICH AND NEVER GOING TO BE. Remember Mother Jones? Where do you think she came from? You've lost your way, Dirtsville. Come on home.
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Corgigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
92. Thanks for the wonderful post
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 12:53 PM by Corgigal
As a former NY'er (westchester county) who wishes to return, I congratulate you on your post. I sound like a NY'er (wonder why?) and I live in South Carolina. They hate us here. Period. Even thought I was born in SC but I moved up to NY when I was 2. Bad bad parents.

Now I have a few friends here, mostly people from other states because just the way I speak can offend people here. You know the kind, I ask the flipping question directly and if I don't understand something that was said then I will ask you to say it again. I personally thought this was the way to speak, who knew? I'm always asked, You're not from here are you? Sometimes I answer well yes I am to screw with their minds.

I always believed and still do that NY'ers, no matter what state or country they came from originally are the cream of the crop to be able to live in NY City. The rest of the nation has no idea how difficult it it to live in the city. You have to work your ass off. Sure someone may know someone but in NY that is just not good enough.

Wonderful city. No one bothers anyone and you can be anything you like. All different colors and languages. The real America.

edit:spelling
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Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Corgigal, That's the most beautiful tribute to the 9/11 Dead!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. They have NO IDEA how difficult it is to live in a big city.
I moved from LA to Ohio and they don't like me either. Although they tolerate me. It's the Christian thing to do. I keep telling them, "You think life is so hard, move to LA and I'll see you in 6 months to talk about it". It's hard to be ARROGANT in the city. That goes over real well as you can imagine but I just want them to KNOW more about what's going on. They're not interested. If it's not exactly like me it doesn't matter. End of story.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
98. I'm locking this thread
This thread has deteriorated into something other than it's
intent . Many PA's and General broad inflammatory regional
accusations and assumptions .
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
99. I see a video game... Dirtsville vs Goatsgrave...........
The war of ARMANGEDON.... whoever get the most points WINS... a 2 week vacation in a 5 star hotel in HEAVEN. (virgins not included)
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