BULLSHIT.

[Flammable Materials]

Everyone accusing everyone else of beeing a Freeper, people ready to bite people's heads off over little things, it's really depressing. You'd think we had already lost the election.

These evil bastards in Washington will win if they can divide us and have us bickering amongst ourselves rather than putting aside our petty differences and grabbing our torches and storming the gates.

Save your angst for the people who want to see us utterly defeated. WE HAVE AN ENEMY, friends, and it's NOT each other.

Flame me if you want about this, but this is BULLSHIT. Some people seem so committed to playing "Find The Freeper" and accusing anyone who doesn't march completely in lockstep of being a GOP operative, that they wind up shooting at good-hearted people who are ON THEIR SIDE fighting WITH THEM.

If you're not careful, you can easily become that which you despise.

PEACE.

[trumad]

1. Bullshit back to you

As an active poster for the last 3 years at DU, I've never seen more trolls as we have had in the past month..... I love finding freepers and I love to plant them 6 feet under!

[Deja Q]

13. How are you determining they're trolls? Also consider,

Low post count?

Comparing older posts of DUers who have a medium or high post count?

Pulling petals off of daisies?! :-)

I've been around for over 2 years and changed my username once.

And I periodically get accused of being a freeper too, by some. :-( :eyes:

I understand your sentiment of course, but such accusations have considerable ramifications if your estimation is incorrect.

[Cocoa]

16. first clue, titling a thread "Bullshit"

second clue, complaining about being victimized.

[Vickers]

18. That's bullshit, Cocoa!!! Now *I* feel victimized!!!

:eyes:

Man, if my kids acted as thin-skinned as this, I wouldn't let them watch Shrek for a MONTH.

[Dorian Gray]

40. Yes...

Those of us who have low post counts often get harassed as freepers, but those of us who are here to actually discuss the topics don't really give a crap. We would let it roll off our backs and move on.

To bring this topic up with only 115 posts would makes you suspect, also, to the long-time poster here. Hell, is makes me suspicious, and I am a relatively short-time poster here. Maybe you aren't a freeper, but I wouldn't say your intentions were honest, either.

[trumad]

24. I determine by doing a search on their other posts...

Look...after reading thousands of posts on DU, you kind of get a feel for it.... It's like, why would someone post a thread or comment like that...Hmmmm... So I do a search and read their other posts.... If there is a pattern of deceitful inflammatory posts, then to me it's obvious of why they're here. It's pretty easy stuff....

And yes.... unfortunately it's folks with lower posts counts although I've seen plenty with 1000 plus thread counts get whacked too.

[Vickers]

29. "So I do a search and read their other posts...." EXACTLY!

Look, everyone here at some point has posted something that could be construed by SOMEONE as freeperish, or anti-progressive, or just plain stupid. Nature of the business.

So, when I see something fishy, I do a search on their name, see where they are coming from, see if maybe I misunderstood them, whatever.

But I think that I have a 100% tombstone rate once I hit that alert button, so the Mods must see the same thing I did.

I don't jump the gun on the alert, but I ain't afraid of it, I assure you.

[AmerDem]

39. For starters I have seen more 'tombstones" this past week

then I have ever seen! tombstones=banned!

[HamdenRice]

20. No actually what you have accomplished ...

is driving new members away from DU. You accuse anyone who has joined within the last 6 months or who has the slightest different take on things from you or who constructively criticizes the campaign or any perceived ally of the campaign of being a freeper.

The Democratic Party is not a little college club or sorority that can afford to drive away anyone who isn't exactly the same, and I would hope that an influential progressive/Democratic board like this wouldn't be like that either.

You think you are outing freepers, but all you are doing is driving away new members.

You have a very paranoid view of political discourse.

What is worse is that liberalism and progressivism are supposed to be, according to most political theorists, empirical, problem solving, common sense, logical political approaches without pre-determined solutions to policy problems -- compared to RW conservativism, religious fundamentalism and facissm, which are all about unquestioning loyalty to a predetermined point of view, and pre-determined solutions to problems, which can be found in "the book" whether the Bible, the Koran or the writings of Milton Friedman.

Your mind has the content of progressivism, but uses the method of thinking of RW conservativism and fundamentalism.

[trumad]

22. You responding to me....?

Listen... I can smell a troll freeper here on DU just like I can smell an unflushed turd in the toilet. They've got that same kind of Pungent smell. You folks make it sound like it's hard to find them... Please...they jump right out at you. I think I'm running about 99.9 percent when I hit that alert button.

[Swamp Rat]

23. then check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x833934

I hit the alert button, but...

[sendero]

34. People who come here....

.. solely to blow negative winds should just get the fuck out. I don't care if they are Dems, if they are a pink fart in a punch bowl then they are not needed here.

Is that ok with you?

[FlashHarry]

36. I was just accused, and I've been here for almost 3 years!

And I have more than 8,000 posts (not the "kick" variety, either)!

[Vickers]

2. You are thin-skinned

Once you accept that, you can begin the process to change.

I mean, wasn't the OTHER thread you started about this good enough for you?

[Cocoa]

3. Phil Parlock, is that you?

getting attacked by dems again?

[punpirate]

4. Sorry, but disruption from the outside is a reality....

You're going to have to deal with it, just as everyone else must.

Every idiot left here to spread dissension will continue to do so. Maybe, some people are too aggressive in monitoring that dissension, but, ultimately, the decisions are made by the moderators. If you have a bitch, make it to the moderators or the administrators, not to the rest of us.

From your previous posts, I think this is a case of one who doth protest too much. Perhaps you are in the process of becoming that which you despise.

Post things of importance, rather than of self-importance, and you may feel less inclined to complain.

If you still feel the need to complain, address those complaints to the moderators.

Cheers.

[shockingelk]

5. Is there something specific you're thinking of?

There is that George Patton quote, "If everybody is thinking the same thing, someone isn't thinking".

That type of disagreement is healthy and necessary.

That's different than someone who signs up, gets a few dozen nothing posts under their belt, then starts posting garbage like, "We have a problem, Kerry voted to invade Iraq ..."

[Flammable Materials]

12. Specifics?

One thing in particular was the 53-year Democrat who was accused of being a troll. I didn't say anything about that, though, because I figured I'd said my piece.

There have been others, and I'd be happy to find them and post the links but I don't know what difference it would make. I suppose that some people are so angry that they don't care who's on the receiving end.

If someone wants to call me "thin-skinned", go right ahead. I prefer to think of myself as a sensitive, considerate, thoughtful human being who realizes we need to stop bickering and deal with getting rid of an administration bent on DESTROYING US. If someone wants to call me "Phil Parlock", well they have every right to put their ignorance on display. I'm just trying to point out that you can't fight an effective war if you can't even get along as a regiment.

That's all I'm going to say about this.

[shockingelk]

15. OK

I always try to think of WWW as standing for "The Wild Wild Web". It's easy for people with good intentions to be bolder than they usually would when they're talking through a keyboard to an anonymous screen name.

[soothsayer]

6. Freeeper! (just kidding). As they say, the danger of fighting monsters

is that you might become one.

[Kierkegaard]

7. Finally.

A voice of reason.

I have avoided DU for most of the weekend for just such as you suggest. Most of what I have seen is bad news and defeatist crap that has been planted by our COMMON enemy in an attempt to cause us to self-destruct. Do you know why that is? They have tried every dirty trick in the book and the shit ain't sticking. Despite all efforts to tear down Kerry, their boy continues to sink in his own cesspool of failure.

This is the one way they can defeat superior numbers: to make us roll over and quit by turning us against one another. As a united force against this administration, we have the power to blow them away as long as we are steadfast in our commitment to getting the job done and resistant to the efforts of the enemy to sidetrack us with bullshit media, slanted polls and propaganda puff.

It is fine to report and debunk the garbage as long as it doesn't degrade into in-fighting and name calling. That is counter-productive and detrimental to the IMPORTANT TASK of GETTING THE NEOCONS OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT!

[Deja Q]

17. I second that! (and post #9 too)

If a person is a freeper, they'll get hoisted by their own petard at some point. The mods and admins know their stuff.

And, last I recall, accusing someone of a freeper is usually a no-no.

I'm also ASHAMED of many callous posts in this thread, it lends to the idea we aren't as we say we are. (okay folks, go ahead and sock it to me with your silly accusations of me being a freeping bush. :eyes: I promise, it won't reflect well on any of us, least of all those who beat the tom-toms of paranoia and pretentious accusations.)

[jonnyblitz]

8. and some freepers even pose as vets. like this TOMBSTONED

ASSHOLE

Some DUers are so easily fooled. he had EVERYBODY KISSING HIS ASS just because he said he was a VET and everybody bent over backwards so they didn't appear to be anti-military...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2365184&mesg_id=2365184

[Swamp Rat]

21. Check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=833934

I hit alert a couple of times, but the obvious freeper yet remains.

[trumad]

25. That's a perfect thread to start with...

It reeks in there.... Newbies popping in and dissing the memos and saying that the Tang issues don't hurt Bush... :wtf:

There's a couple of trolls in that thread....

[Puglover]

26. Didnt fool me for a sec Johnny..

Someone who starts a thread "So are you gonna spit on the soldiers when they return" isn't too hard to figure out. I was surprized so many DUers were taken in.
J

[Cha]

28. Could you show us where he got "tombstoned"?

Thanks!

[bicentennial_baby]

33. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=149299

[not systems]

38. That was classic...

the freepers bait hit the water and every DLC "moderate"
in the place started denouncing the vile "anti-military"
fringe placing a big wet freedom kiss right on the pekerwoods
pucker.

[mike_c]

42. that thread reeked so badly-- and the stink was DLC moderates

...that I nearly gagged from all the support the troops circle-jerking.

[teach1st]

9. Flammable Materials has a point...

...in my opinion. Some people in here are way too jumpy and aggressive about possible intruders. I've seen newer members get their butts whipped over really minor points, over mistranslations of their intentions.

What's the problem? We have an abundance of truth on our side. The way to deal with possible disrupters is with a logical flow of truthful information, not with accusations. Accusations can turn off some well-meaning folks, folks who are just looking for information, but whose posts are suspected of being freeper entry points.

If the possible intruters become obnoxious despite rational rebuttals, then moderators can jump in. We can't afford to alientate.

Just my opinion.

[Vickers]

14. See, this is why folks should lurk for awhile before posting

I first found this place in March 2003, and I didn't post until last February...11 months!

But, in that time I saw how the dynamics of the board worked, and so I avoided many of the pitfalls that newbies encounter.

Look, there are some things you just aren't going to "win" on DU no matter how much you prattle on or how correct you feel you are in your thinking...so why waste your breath?

:toast:

[DemonFighterLives]

37. Good advice!

I lurked here for some time. This is a tough place and you don't come on here and call out the regulars and old timers right out of the gate. In fact, I still tread softly.

There is a point to this thread though that some good democrats may have been disposed of. If you don't cause waves, you can slip under the radar. :9

[Kierkegaard]

19. This falls under my point above.

I have seen a number of newbies, who obviously don't have the lay of the land yet, eviscerated for asking the wrong questions or being the bearer of some BS news story, seemingly because of a low post count.

Why would they want to stay around after getting chopped to bits by us? Some are certainly infiltrators, but many could be mildly interested sympathetics or fence sitters. Can we afford to alienate any more potential Kerry voters?

[mike_c]

43. evisceration is fine, as long as it's done intelligently....

It's one thing to refute BS news stories and RW talking points-- hopefully while preserving a willingness to listen to opposing points of view-- but quite another to simply play "kick the newbie."

[Puglover]

27. I agree totally...

there are a few folks on this board that have the subtlety of Eugene McCarthy sniffing out communists.

[teach1st]

30. Joseph...

Eugene McCarthy was a good guy

http://www.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us/ryerbury/wes/wes.htm

Joseph McCarthy

http://www.turnerlearning.com/cnn/coldwar/reds/reds_re3.html

[Puglover]

31. Jeffrey is blushing big time...

thanks for the correction. Sheesh.

[Swamp Rat]

10. There have been more freepers here in the last few weeks than I've ever

seen before. We MUST deal with this problem. If you were caught in the cross-hairs, well that's too bad. I sympathize with you. If you are NOT a freeper, then don't worry about it and move on, but please stick around.

[Misinformed01]

11. Whatever.

it's a public message board...if you can't take the heat, go to marthastewart.com and watch for the sales---politics and whiners generally don't mix very well--

[Stephanie]

32. But FM won't get as much ATTENTION at marthastewart.com

He's getting plenty of it over here with the whining threads.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. Whatever you say, sparky.

[mike_c]

41. no flames-- this post is right on....

I have been a member of DU since early 2002 and a stalwart Democrat (30 years!) until just recently. I'm now a Green, mostly in response to the democratic party's lurch to the right and its position with regard to the Iraq invasion and occupation. I have criticized the party's recent failures. Until relatively recently my viewpoint was regarded as a liberal perspective-- perhaps an extreme one, but a liberal perspective nonetheless-- by most of the DU community. In recent months however, I've increasingly been accused of being a disruptor and a stealth freeper.

I believe that the problem lies at least partly in a change in DU membership that accelerated during the primaries and has since led to the loss of many "old-timers." Many of the newer DU'ers seem less tolerant of dissent and less willing to engage in genuine discussion-- discussion that includes opposing points of view. They start name-calling at the first hint of criticism of the party.

[DemBones DemBones]

44. A change in DU membership? Well, there was a time when

DUers would be saying "sniff, sniff, I smell a freeper" in a thread like this, but we were asked not to toy with the trolls, just to hit the alert button.

[Tsiyu]

45. We are in a Political WAR

and there will be collateral damage. Yes, I have been scrutinized and had a post deleted. It's just paying your dues. I for one am damned sick and tired of the trolls because they are trying to block people from coming here and getting solid information. They attempt to distract, discredit and slyly insert their agenda into threads and they will be called on it every time.
I, too made a post like this, and I agree we must be very discerning as we try to destroy the freeper's chance to infiltrate, but just understand we can't tolerate, nor can we afford, to let freepers turn this into their own playground.