Is patriotism a base emotion?

[Swede]

Or is it it's strength in a person. Or maybe it's the person's make up. In a enlightened person patriotism is modified by empathy and kindness. In the unenlightened it is coarse and ugly. Maybe fear and anger twist it,increase it.

[NightTrain]

1. Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.

Can't remember who said it first, but today's Bush-lovers have fucking well proven it true!

ON EDIT: Did a Google search on that quote. Its originator was Samuel Johnson.

[Northwind]

6. I like Oscar Wilde's version

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious"

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. Now that's good.

And, I've never heard it. Are u sure it was Wilde?

Paul

[xray s]

2. don't mistake jingoism for patriotism

One is a base emotion, the other is not.

[mmonk]

3. patriotism or nationalism?

[Swede]

4. Would you say they are the same thing along with jingoism

just different degrees in different people.

[are_we_united_yet]

5. Patriotism or hatriotism?

[Smarmie Doofus]

7. Frankly, ...yes; its an out growth of....

tribalism.

It is myopic in its assumptions. By definition , it assumes that the rest of the planet is alien and, hence inferior. The people outside of one's geo-political borders are not fully human... not fully human in the same sense as the people WITHIN those borders.

I suppose one can distinguish between "patriotism" and "mindless patriotism" but I see the distinction as scarcely worth making.There are always degrees of evil.

The reality is that we are citizens of the planet Earth, and nothing else. Our tribe is humanity and our loyalty belongs to all people of the planet. We distort this reality every time we "pledge allegiance", rise for the national anthem and even when we even "support our troops" who are busy engaging in largely mechanized warfare with people about whom said troops know absolutely nothing, except the fact that they are unable to fight back on equal terms.


The surge in ritualistic "patriotism" that swept the country post 9-11 should have left more of us with a well-founded sense of foreboding. Everytime I heard the military glorified in those days... and that was anytime I turned on TV or went to work ( I work in a school)... all I could think of was a lot of people ( i.e. foreigners) are going to be dying pretty soon.

I truly wish I hadn't been right.

Paul

[porphyrian]

10. 21st Century Dark Age

Can people who don't know history repeat it?

[deadparrot]

9. Real patriots don't have to constantly don red, white, and blue.

They're the ones who are willing to question and cooperate with each other to make their country a better place. It's not about "my country is the best," it's about "How can I make my country better?"

This administration doesn't know the first thing about real patriotism.

[TahitiNut]

11. Absolutely.

[GernBlanston]

12. PLEASE...

Understand the difference between Patriotism and Nationalism.

WE are the patriots. Hmmm.. Lemme see if I can find that article from a year or so ago about the difference between the two...


Crap - I can't find it. I want to say it was Naomi Klein. But I just discovered something quite interesting... If you Google "Patriotism Vs. Nationalism", you get almost 11,000 hits. :) Hell.. just searching inside www.thenation.com got a few dozen.

But this blurb sums it up nicely:

http://www.doug-miller.net/blog/archive/patriotismvsnational.html

Playing on our fears. A retired New Mexico State Supreme Court Justice comments on today's circumstances. "'There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism,' Franchini said. 'Nationalism is what you found in Nazi Germany and -- I hate to say it -- after Sept. 11, what you're seeing here. Nationalism says, 'my country right or wrong.' And that's just insane.'" And, might I add, frightening.

We have to be VERY careful with the language we use. It is what defines us.

[K-W]

14. It is a false argument.

patriotism describes benign nationalism. Nationalism in cases where it doesnt cause problems that are too big.

They are both the same thing though, the population identifying itself with the nation state. It is basic group identity and it carries many problems, like we see in the US now and in other countries. We just like to pretend that it was something different all those times it went wrong.

[K-W]

13. Patriotism is one of the more dangerous forms of group identity.

Which is probably to some extent natural. There is probably a basic instinct for group association, but it is also highly cultural in its particular expression.

Patriotism can be benign but often causes a great number of problems in societies. In the end there is really no benefit to patriotism. The sense of loyalty to a nation state is a bit outdated.