Why is this allowed to continue? Mary Kay LeTourneau...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

and her boyfriend are getting hitched? Does anyone not see the severe psychological damage that has been done here? Do you think that if some 34 year old man had sex with a 13 year old girl and then seven years later returns to marry her there would not be outrage? I just don't get it...those poor kids (they have two children together in addition to the other four she has with the ex).

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/12/letourneau.king/index.html

theProdigal

[Boredtodeath]

1. Both consenting adults (now)

Why is it our business?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

7. it may not be...probably isn't...

but are you not disturbed that this continues? I personally think she should have been banned from any contact with him...she has fried his mind. Not to mention her poor children...

theProdigal

[LisaL]

15. I believe the boy sued to get the ban lifted.

Really, the grown woman and a little boy.
This probably will last less than Jennifer Lopez marriage any way.

[Pachamama]

36. Why shouldn't children be able to see their parents together?

If you feel bad for the children that they have together (as well as her children from her previous marriage) why wouldn't you be happy for them to be able to finally have their parents together? Or for that matter for the families' to heal? What business is it of ours?

Who is to ever determine that someone may or may not have contact between two consenting adults? Should we invoke laws that prevent gay men from having contact with one another because someone judges that to be wrong? If two consenting adults who are of legal age decide to engage in a romantic relationship and consumate that, whose business is it to stop? Unless the children were being beaten by them, why should they not be with both their parents?

Your outrage seems a little extreme on this case...what's your story?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

55. thanks for asking

my story revolves around watching an abusive relationship (from the outside) that destroyed three children who to this day have no sense of what it means to love or be loved. People that had parents that were so screwed up in their relationship that they will never be able (without a GREAT deal of help) be able to understand a normal relationship (admittedly Western relationship).

Face it...she preyed on this boy. She continued the relationship after serving time. She should have been locked up for much longer. This is about adult vs. child. Not adult vs. adult.

theProdigal

[951]

69. Geez you guys are talking like he married his mother!

She served her time ITS OVER WITH! and now they are getting "LEGALLY" married and obviously they are in love we should should let them be. I agree with the others this is not legal nor political and it belongs in the DU Lounge.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

72. he is engaged to someone who was in a position of leadership

over him...his bi-polar teacher. It is not over because he is back with the person who took advantage of her position to create a relationship with this boy...and it is a political statement to have this relationship condoned.

theProdigal

[951]

75. I...I...I'm sorry but is any of that a crime?

SHE SERVED HER TIME for doing that to him now that he's older he's free to marry any damn person he chooses to. Its not a crime or condones what she did she served her time for it.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

76. she served her time and then went right back to her victim

and played upon a foundation that was created when he was a child. That is why this pisses me off...and the fact that her sentence did not include a restraining order to prevent her from seeing him (she was arrested twice for this, you know) is what has brought me to this discussion. Her punishment obviously served society poorly...

theProdigal

[RivetJoint]

78. The young man WANTS her in his life

They are both adults and WANT to be together. No court should be able to keep them apart.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

80. because of the psychological damage that was done

to him as a child. She should be locked up...preying on children for sexual/relational gratification is...I can't even find an appropriate word...

theProdigal

[Andromeda]

84. Enough already...

She WAS locked up for 89 months. They are both adults now and can legally do what they wish.

[AngryAmish]

2. Ain't love grand?

[southernleftylady]

3. you know what is twisted... legally they can get married ..

however twisted that is... and a gay couple who have been togheter for years can not...
amazing isnt it???
strange how some people t hink

[Vickers]

5. Yup..."family values" and all that.

Hey, maybe she found Jesus in the slammer or something :eyes:

[Pachamama]

11. Wow! This is a great answer to use for when people talk about Gay Marriage

What an irony....the conservatives talk about the purpose of marriage and its current laws are to keep marriage as its intended and the american family values in tact....

That said, I have mixed feelings about the whole case and the reality now is that while she did commit a felony and what she did was wrong, she served her time, they are two consulting adults and have two children now together. Like a gay couple (or any couple) they should be allowed as two adults to make a decision that is right for them and their family and its not our business.

[loudestchick]

42. So cute!

I love your little time lines!!!!! Let's hope your new bundle get's to be born during a Kerry presidency!!

[southernleftylady]

81. OH thank you :D im doing all i can for my little ones :) nt

[ladjf]

4. About all we can do for those two unusual folks if leave them

alone. They've already suffered more than their share. Nothing could be accomplished by further attempts to keep them apart.

[juliagoolia]

6. Happened loads of times

In decades past that young girls were married off to old guys..they are a lot of our grandparents! YIKES>. not mine but if you do any genealogy at all its all over the place in the early 1900's and even mid 1900's.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

9. wasn't right then...

and even worse now that the psychological implications of this are better understood...

theProdigal

[patcox2]

41. Thats actually bullshit too.

The psychological impact depends on cultural mores and practices. In cultures in which marriage takes place at an early age, there is no "psychological impact." There would be a psychological impact, however, if you stepped out of your time machine and started telling people that everything they thought they knew and what they thought was normal was wrong and evil.

You sound like a christian missionary invading some peaceful island paradise and screaming at the natives that they are sinful and had bettter hide their nakedness. Your judgment of other cultures and past cultural mores is ethnocentric.

Studies have shown that the reaction of those around an abused child, people like you acting all outraged and appalled and telling the so-called "victim" that what happened was outrageous and appalling, cause more psychological damage than the abuse.

Basing the difference between "rape" and "child abuse" as opposed to "consenting adults, its okay," based on whether its one day before or one day after a birthday is arbitrary bullshit. People have different levels of emotional and mental maturity, sophisitication, and strength, at all ages. I have seen marriages between people of equal ages, yet the disparity between them was probably greater than between these two.

Taking your position to an extreme, should there be mandatory testing of all people, before they are allowed to get into a sexual/romantic relationship, to make sure they are equally mature?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

51. the child was thirteen

but i guess that is ok...

jeez

[CatWoman]

57. I have to side with Patcox here

yes, the child was 13.

the "child" is now an adult, and can see who he bloody well wants to.

[cali]

8. 1. I could care less

They're both legally adults. It's none of my business.
2. There are about a thousand issues more important than this one. I'll save my outrage for issues that effect this country.
3. Shouldn't this be posted in the lounge. It's hardly a political issue.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

10. 'tis political

the state of this country is such that this kind of garbage is allowed to continue. This issue could affect you in more ways than you know...it is a crime that has been allowed to continue for YEARS.

theProdigal

[cali]

12. Sorry, but that's just

bullshit. How on earth could it affect me? It's not political. And it's not even criminal anymore. It's their business. I can't see into their hearts. Neither can you.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. bullshit...thanks to you as well...

i take it you don't have any 10-14 year old children? Can't affect you? Please...this sort of moral decay is becoming more and more acceptable. People say there is no slippery slope...horseshit (had to pick a different mammal). Look at the last 50 years...

theProdigal

[cali]

23. I have a son

who just turned 18. I'm concerned about the draft. But, yes if he'd been seduced at the age of 13 by a a thirty-four yr. old teacher, I would have been plenty pissed. I think we can all agree that's wrong. What you don't seem to grasp is that these folks are both past the age of consent NOW.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. i am concerned for your son, as well...the specter of a draft

haunts us all these days. I guess my 'up in arms'-ness over all of this is that the boy HAD to have suffered psychological consequences for the tryst. They are most likely playing into his decisions today. This, to me, is tantamount to a continued inflicting of psycological trauma on someone.

theProdigal

[Djinn]

85. yes and no

most of the tme a sexual relationship between an adult and a teenager isn't truly consensual in that there's coercion or a breach of a trust/power relationship. BUT and it's a big but there are cases where the younger person is willing, does the chasing and is not traumatised. Absolutely agree that regardless of the situation the adult should have some self control and know that it's not a good idea (frankly I think this women has some serious issues to deal with) but the young person isn't always traumatised by it.

[Edwardsgroupie]

27. This absolutely IS political

Law and order issues...social issues...sex issues...lifestyle issues. No question it's political.

[TexasSissy]

50. Yes, this should be in Lounge.

[ima_sinnic]

13. when my own life is beyond reproach--then maybe I can judge others

I find your judgmentalness offensive. How pray tell would you enforce "keeping them apart"? WHO would enforce it? Are both people now to come under the surveillance of The State?

Judge not lest ye be judged.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

16. ooohhh...judgmental...thanks

laughable from anyone on this site where judgments occur on second by second basis. Hell, you just judged me...

theProdigal

[Edwardsgroupie]

31. Gosh, then we shouldn't punish any crime since none of us is perfect

This means we can't correct our children either.

[Andy_Stephenson]

46. Where is the crime?

both people are consenting adults and they love each other.

Where is a crime in that?

[shrike]

47. Don't think it's so much that they love each other as that they are

carrying on a sick relationship. BUT, as you said, they are consenting adults and if they want a relationship, sick or otherwise, it's their business. They'll probably pop out a few more kids before they're through. And make a few bucks on the celebrity circuit. (Don't know how else they'll make a living, frankly; she can't teach and he has naught but a GED.)

[MadHound]

54. Sick to you and me, yes, but quite frankly, such a feeling IS subjective

Face it, for generations past, getting married early, yes even at twelve and thirteen, was the norm. My great grandmother was fourteen when she married my great grandfather, who was sixteen. Probably it was the same for many of your ancestors. And it wasn't uncommon for there to be a large age difference between one spouse and another, though usually the older partner was the husband. And, in fact, one can still get married at the age of sixteen without parents' consent in Arkansas, and as young as twelve with parents' consent.

It wasn't until the nineteenth century, when there was the development of a leisure class, that children were allowed to age into their twenties before they married. In fact one was considered rather odd if you weren't married by the time you were 20. And later marriage really didn't take effect until well after the 1930s, with concurrent medical developments that dropped infant mortality drastically. It was expected that females especially got married, had sex, and children at ages ranging from twelve up, for most woman had at least one child die in crib, and having large families not only was desirable, but were an economic requirement for many, esp. rural, families.

Later marriages really didn't become the norm until after WWII, with the commiserate penalties for pedophilia. And quite frankly, it is only in the past thirty years has there been a real stigma attached to child sexual relations.

Does this mean that I approve of this couple? No, but really it isn't any of my business now that they are both adults. There are more important matters at hand for us to worry about. But there is historical precedence for their actions, and that is something we shouldn't ignore.

[shrike]

61. Sorry, I disagree

And I'm well-versed enough in history to know of what you speak. And by the way, younger men DID marry older women "back then" -- for their money. And such marriages were greeted with a nudge-nudge, wink-wink, snicker-snicker by the community.

A schoolteacher with bipolar illness having an affair with a fatherless student with a history of academic problems is not a healthy relationship no matter how you look at it. But you are right -- it's their business now. I just hope the children they have (and the children they will have -- that woman has apparently never heard of birth control) come out of it with a good future ahead of them.

[liberalmuse]

14. The way I see it...

As soon as they both became consenting adults, it became none of our business.

[Thtwudbeme]

17. Weird to you and I doesn't mean something should be illegal

sorry Prodigal...life is just bizarre sometimes.

Stephanie

[ProdigalJunkMail]

19. 13 year olds being molested

and then it being allowed to continue into adulthood is not just bizzare...it is reprehensible. They should have locked her up for MUCH longer when it became obvious (at her second arrest) that she had no intention of leaving this child alone.

theProdigal

[Thtwudbeme]

20. Prod...."this child" is now 21 years old

I know; it seems reprehensible....but, how are they a menace to society? Truthfully, they aren't...you just happened to be grossed out, kind of like finding out that cats are considered food sources in some countries.

I understand your feelings.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

21. i am not grossed out...i am appalled

this was a BOY...and people here seem to think that he suffered no ill effects from his molestation that could possibly carry on until today a nd affect his decisions as an adult. I just don't get why this is permissible.

I agree. It is technically no longer a crime...but this poor boy is still suffering and so will these children...

theProdigal

[Thtwudbeme]

22. OK, so you can spell "appalled" before 9AM

:)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. apparently not...

nor am I capable of using a spell checking program :-)

:P

theProdigal

[Liberal Veteran]

26. A point you may not have considered....

Is that until very recently, women did marry grown men at the age of 13 or 14 years old. Both of my aunts were married when they were 14 to men in their 20's.

Granted times have changed a lot, but have some perspective. I am not excusing what they did, but the fact is that they are now both adults and they have a choice.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

28. yes, our culture has changed considerably...

women were usually forced into marriage at that age by family and circumstances. And I would dare say that much of that lead to a feeling of subservience. Thank goodness for the changes.

I just can't handle this well. She molested (by everyone's agreement) a child, psychologically damaged him, and prey's on him even now...

theProdigal

[BiggJawn]

29. Who cares? they both "adults" now.

How would you like somebody passing judgements on YOUR relationships?

55-y-o Billy Joel married a 23-y-o bimbette. where's your outrage over that?
Oh, yeah, she's over 21, so it doesn't matter.

The RNC thanks you for your continued interest in Mary Kay and her stud pony.
Me, I think she'll throw him over for something younger when he hits 25.

[Bridget Burke]

30. They're both consenting adults now.

The world is full of relationships that might not meet your lofty standards. So spend more time watching Jerry Springer--I'm sure you'll feel even more superior.

Meanwhile, most of us are more concerned about this election thingy that's coming up.

[troublemaker]

32. How exciting for you that you know who should be allowed to marry!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. let me rephrase....

should someone who has been psychologically abused in the past be subjected to continued abuse at the hands of the very person who abused them in the past? Even if it is not technically illegal...is that ok?

theProdigal

[Pachamama]

35. There are a lot of people in psychologically "abusive" relationships

....sometimes these people choose to be in the relationship instead of leaving, other times the person is so psychologically "beaten" that they don't have the strength or ability to "leave" the relationship.

Is it okay - no...but the reality is they are two consenting adults.

Also, Vili, the "boy" in question is a man now and can make decisions for himself...also, I don't know if you know much about the Samoan culture, but boys are considered "Men" much younger than here and often can be 6ft or taller at an earlier age and look much more mature and are often given many more responsibilities at a young age than here in the US. None of this makes it okay, but I saw interviews with this guy even while he was young, as well as with his family and they seemed to have more issues with the "authorities" than they did with the actual relationship.

The net net is this - its none of ours or anyones business what these two parents of two decide as CONSENTING adults to do with their lives.

Meanwhile, I will agree with the other posters here- the RNC and Bush thank you for your attention to this and the Scott Peterson case...meanwhile, there are more important REAL concerns such as the election coming up.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. thank you for your concern for my attention span

which, believe it or not, is capable of being attracted to more than one issue at a time.

I just hate that this psychological abuse is allowed to continue. I know people that have been and are in abusive situations and I pains me. We will not understand the ramifications of this union for years to come...

theProdigal

[ibegurpard]

38. Here's what you're not getting:

There's NOTHING that can be done now. She went to prison for this. She's out now. The kid is now an ADULT. If they want to be together THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO ABOUT IT. If you are asking people to disapprove then fine but that's about all that can be done.

[radwriter0555]

34. What LAW would you like to invoke here?

Got any in mind?

[dryan]

39. FYI....

Mary Kay's father was a member of congress I think back in the 1960s or early 1970s. He was a very conservative Republican and involved with the John Birch Society. I think he even ran for president on the Libertarian ticket but I could be wrong. Anyway, he was involved in some sort of scandal involving a young woman at his church (sound familiar) and finally was defeated by Dorner (B1 Bob). Ironic isn't it?

[charlie]

40. All too familiar

Remember Susan Smith? The murderer whose depravity Newt Gingrich blamed on Democrats? Her stepdad caused the breakup of her parents' marriage (and possibly her dad's suicide). He also began molesting her when she was 15 and was still boinking her within months of her kids' deaths. And natch, he was a leader in local Republican, Christian Coalition, and Anti-abortion chapters, and was a manager in Pat Robertson's presidential campaign. As far as I know, he's never been charged for his crimes. Naturally.

[shrike]

43. The reality show is next

Why she would hitch her wagon to an unemployed high school dropout is beyond me -- maybe they deserve each other. Or maybe they have dollar signs in their eyes -- after all, he did sue the school for failing to protect him from her. I truly would not be surprised to see them on a reality show.

I hope someone will be keeping an eye on those kids. If it's true she's bipolar -- and from the descriptions I've read of her behavior she does -- somebody should be looking in on them from time to time. Her four children from her first marriage have their father to look out for them. These last two have no one.

[realFedUp]

44. Allowed to continue?

Who made us keepers of these consenting adults?

Obviously if he didn't love her and she him,
they wouldn't be getting back together. Isn't
it a happy ending that they are forming a family
with the children they conceived.

Sometimes, someone's age isn't reflective
of their maturity and feelings.

(and speaking of Britney Spears....)

[noiretextatique]

45. exactly what do you think should be done?

yeah she's a creep, but she's spent her time in prison. and now that he is an adult...what can be done?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. What if he really loves her and isn't fucked up?

With all due respect, he MAY really love her...it's possible.

[shrike]

49. Then he'd better get his life together real quick

[ProdigalJunkMail]

53. it IS possible

but I just cannot see this being a normal situation with how it all started. People all up and down this thread are saying that it is just two adults, Prodigal, chill out. No problem...they are adults...why worry.

Part of this boy's life is permanently affected by this. Whether people here like it or not. Don't take my word for it now...wait five years or so...and then check back with me. This is going nowhere good. If it does, I will be the first one to start advocating adult/child sexual relationships...well, probably not...but I will say I was wrong on THIS ONE.

theProdigal

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

58. But he isn't a child anymore

I would gladly gove it over to you if he were. He probably HAS had therapy. I also think people TELLING him he is damaged can do MORE damage to him than her.

I would be behind you 100% were he still a child, but he isn't. He may very well love her. He may very well be resolved with the past.

He may very well be a man now and not a boy.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

64. i am sure he has had therapy

but it just seems too screwed up to me to go back to a person who abused you as badly as this. In any situation where an abused person goes back to the abuser it is almost never seen as a good thing for either...and yet this one seems to get a pass from most of the people here. How can it be that so few people see this as anything else but a victim returning to their abuser? He may be a man now, but the child in him still play heavily into who he is now...as it does for all of us.

theProdigal

by the way, nice to be chatting you up again!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. An abused person going back to an abuser largely depends on

their interpretation that they were abused. If he were underage, I wouldn't give it a pass. I just think that if he HAS had the benefit of therapy, and was winning in therapy and then came to this conclusion, it might be MORE resolute and thoughtful a decision than most hetero marriages...

Always nice to see you :hi:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

66. are you slamming MY marriage???

just because we knew each other for 20 years before we got hitched??? :-) Just kidding...

In a sexual abuse situation...the abusee can quite frequently think, especially if underaged, that it is an appropriate way to express love. He probably didn't feel abused...hell, I can almost guarantee it from his current stance. But it doesn't change the fact that it WAS abuse...more psychological than sexual...and it is still affecting him today.

theProdigal

[fob]

52. Didn't Jerry Lee Lewis do just that? Only he married he when she was

what 14?

Ok per this website; http://members.tripod.com/~Jerry9/BD.htm, Jerry was 23 and his bride was 13 and a second cousin (twice removed).
-end snip-

Here's another list from;http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/music/jerry-lee-lewis/

21 Feb 1952 Marries first wife, Dorothy Barton.
15 Sep 1954 Marries second wife, Jane Mitcham.
Oct 1954 Divorces first wife, Dorothy Barton.
2 Nov 1954 Son Jerry Lee Lewis Jr., born, to Jane Mitcham.
11 Dec 1957 Marries 13 year old cousin, Myra Gail Brown (third wife).
Apr 1958 Divorces second wife, Jane Mitcham.
27 Feb 1959 Second son, Steve Allen, born. Named after TV host.
9 Dec 1970 Divorces third wife, Myra Gail.
-end snip-

It looks like from above that twice he married BEFORE divorcing his then current wife? Am I reading that right? Is that normal? Could the dates be the date the divorce was final? Will I ever stop asking questions? What was my point? I don't remember?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

56. More important things to think about

than somebody's little soap opera.

The media are keeping this alive as brain candy for the masses.

[LynneSin]

59. Why do we even care anymore?

She's paid her debt to society, he's now several years past the age of consent and together they have 2 kids. I'm sure he's had enough therapy after this was all overwith to realize that he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to do.

God Be with these 2, I hope they can finally find some happiness from all this mess that they have created for themselves and others around them.

[Artemis Bunyon]

60. Well... he IS a Samoan!

And you know what they say about Samoans.

They grow up fast.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. thanks for the accusation...

this board is full of judgmental types on issues far less controversial that this one...the boy was abused and now has run back to his abuser (man or not). And God knows I am not perfect...I have people to peer in on my life to help me...but ask any clinical psychologist what they would think of this scenario...and see where it comes out.

theProdigal

[Mandate My Ass]

63. This may not be a healthy relationship but it is a legal one

I know a lot of people in abusive relationships. They don't seem to want my help or advice and they certainly wouldn't welcome my interference. People are free to screw themselves up in any way they want and if something bothers you that you can't change, my only advice to you would be not to give it any further thought. Spinning your wheels over somebody else's sex life is a futile endeavour.

As for moral decay, I'm more concerned with the moral decay at the WH, the Pentagon and Congress than I am about two people who have procreated, under whatever questionable circumstances, deciding to raise their children together.

All that can be done, has been done. :shrug:

[Barney Rocks]

67. my grandmother was

15 years old when she married my grandfather who was 33 years older than her.

Granted times were different--but it used to be common. If these people choose to do this, who am I to tell them that they cannot do it? They are free and of age let them have a relationship if they want. Even if it doesn't work--it can't harm anyone except for them.

[Barney Rocks]

70. I should add that

even worse--my grandmother didn't love my grandfather at all and she never did (not one day of a 36 year marriage--in fact, she treated him with constant contempt although they stayed married until he died and had four children).

She was in love with someone else when she married my grandfather--a man who was not in a position to marry her and she just married my grandfather in order to get out of the house (she was extremely rebellious and hated living with her parents). She lied to my grandfather about her age and said that she was eighteen, she even forged a baptismal certificate to bolster her case. It was years before he found out that she had not been old enough to marry him.

[RetroLounge]

71. Why do you care? Is this your business?

They are both adults. Her time was served.

Get over it...

RL

[951]

73. Thank You (n/t)

[ProdigalJunkMail]

74. a lot ot stuff talked about on this board is nobody's business

but we talk about it because it moves us in some way. You get over it.

theProdigal

[mitchum]

77. Priscilla's parent's essentially sold her to Elvis when she...

was 13. There was no outrage

[gulliver]

79. Wait for the book and movie.

:-)

[Starlight]

82. MYOB

They're in love. :loveya: Or something. :P Either way, they are free to make their own decisions & mistakes. :)

[atre]

83. The only thing that shouldn't be allowed to continue...

... is the news coverage of this nonsense.

Who cares if they want to emotionally wreck their own lives? She's out of prison, with her sentence served, and he's now a consenting adult. There's nothing the law can do anymore.

[Jacobin]

86. Are you gonna make up a new criminal statute?

Public Law 5,647,392,645.3:

"Whosoever shall, after having unlawfully fornicated with an under age minor, and after having been convicted of such crime and having served his/her sentence, and after having been released from jail, then proceed to marry said underage minor, after said minor has reached at least the age of 21, shall be imprisoned at hard labor for not more than ten nor less than twenty years."

Something like that?

Leave me out of that one.

[seventhson]

87. 14 year olds can legally have sex in many states

as long as it is with someone close to their own age.

As a Juvenile Law Attorney in the past I have seen 13 year old mothers and mothers (and fathers) who wer every young and engaged in consensual relationships with much older persons (which IS illegal). But the judgment of the law is that sex between young teens the same age (where I practiced it meant they had to be within two years of each other and over the age of thirteen) MAY be grounds for legal action to protect them but it is NOT considered a crime or delinquent offense.

It only BECOMES a delinquent offense if they are actually charged with being "out of control" and ordered NOT to engage in sexual relationships and then disaobey the court order. If they violate the court order THAT becomes the "crime" (not the act in itself).

As such, the law pretty much says that at 14 sex is okay. It is not a juvenile offense. But having sex with someone MORE than two years your junior IS illegal (so a sixteen year old can be charged with a crime for having sex with someone two years and one day younger but NOT someone two years younger). One day makes the difference between crime and acceptance in the law. So if a fifteen year old has sex with a 17 year old it all depends on their birthdays whether it is criminal for the older teen.

What I am getting at is that 13 year olds DO have sex. It is NOT always nonconcensual and is not always traumatic and awful.

Our society imposes a moral code that says it is okay to have sex (more or less) with someone close to your age when you are 14 or 16 or 18 but NOT if THEY are much older or younger than you.

My feeling is that it was inapprapriate, illegal and POSSIBLY immoral, but NOT awful and possibly not all that traumatic. At the age of 13 most boys I know would have given a limb to get laid by an older sexy female and been happy as clams about it for the rest of their lives. Some girls I have worked with felt prety much the same.

Basically - it is THEIR business and NOT really ours.

Yes the law was broken, but in many cultures such relationships are not considered bad , wrong or illegal.

We come from the Puritan Victarian witch-hunters who judged EVERYBODY and prefer the Scarlet letters to brand people for life.

I personally think THAT is perverted and demented.

Let these adults be.