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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 12:58 AM
Original message
Who will Catholics side with?
I have posted this in a few other threads and I am trying to get some milage out of it. I hope it can make a talking point for somebody, or at least shut up a so called Catholic that is trying to have Kerry removed from the church.

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"A Catholic moral framework does not easily fit into the ideologies of "right" or "left", nor the platforms of any party.... Our responsibility is to measure all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person, whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good."

"Faithful Citizenship" as issued by the United States Catholic Bishops 2004
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It is a common misconception of politicians seeking office that the Catholic vote can be courted by addressing a narrow range of issues. In reality, the great majority of Catholics in the U.S., in agreement with the U.S. catholic Bishops, will vote for the candidates based "on the full range of issues, as well as on < the candidate's> personal integrity, philosophy, and performance"

Faithful Citizenship, U.S. Catholic Bishops, 2004
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Members of the media- and indeed a few of our own religious leaders- do a great disservice to our church and nation when they attempt to use one or another issue as a benchmark for Catholic identity.

"The Christian faith is an integral unity, and thus it is incoherent to isolate some particular element to the detriment of the whole of Catholic doctrine. A political commitment to a single isolated aspect of the Church's social doctrine does not exhaust one's responsibility toward the common good"
(Doctrinal Note on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, November 24, 2002, and approved by the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II)
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The Catholic Church teaches that all life is sacred. A candidate for office must understand that the Church stands against any policy or course of action that diminishes life, dignity or the rights of the human person: abortion, capital punishment, war, scandalous poverty, denial of health care, mistreatment of immigrants and racism, to name but a few.

There are 60 million Catholics in the U.S. We take the responsibility of voting seriously. Each of us will evaluate candidates based on what our conscience- formed by reading the signs of the times in light of the example of Jesus in the Scriptures and the teachings of our Church throughout the ages- demands. We will examine the broad range of issues, measuring "all candidates, policies, parties, and platforms by how they protect or undermine the life, dignity, and rights of the human person, whether they protect the poor and vulnerable and advance the common good."

"Faithful Citizenship" U.S. Catholic Bishops 2004.
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There is why the Catholics are coming home to John Kerry. It is footnoted, referenced and quoted that the Pope and any responsible Catholic thinks Bush needs to lose.


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TriMetFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well I'm Catholic and voted for Kerry.
Also at my kids school which is a Catholic school I have only seen 3 B/C stickers and a bunch for Kerry.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Catholics are hated by the fundies...and they know it
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nostalgicaboutmyfutr Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. i think you will find a lot of Catholics....
don't like being told how to vote...
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. One Catholic friend told me the last straw was...
when he came out of Mass.

Mind you, this kid was so undecided he wore a College Republicans sweatshirt with a Kerry sticker on it (!) He said he finally decided on Kerry, because he was extremely offended when he came out of Mass and some of the church officials were handing out literature saying that "good Catholics" vote for Bush, not Kerry. He said he doesn't like being told how to vote.
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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Catholics are Democrats...
Catholic religion is composed of many ethnic groups and they are Democrats.
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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Catholic here, 110% for Kerry and 110% Pro-Choice...
Even better, my boyfriend's parents sent him to Catholic school his entire life and he's a bigger Dem than me ;)

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Barney Rocks Donating Member (746 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. I know Catholics that
are all over the political spectrum. I know some that are extremely RW and some that are extremely LW.

There are ONE BILLION Catholics in the world! It is an extremely diverse community of believers. There is room for everyone from the extreme left to the extreme right and everything in between.


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eauclaireliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. RE: "Who will Catholics side with?"
Edited on Thu Oct-21-04 08:16 AM by eauclaireliberal
21st Century America requires doses of reality. God is not going to strike down abortionists and their patients with bolts of lighting, Especially when there isn't a system to support unwanted children.

Fundamentalist religion are sources of good bathroom reading, fairy tales.

I am pro-life not because I'm Roman-Catholic, it's because there are many couples who would love to adopt because they cannot have children. It also has something to do with my chosen field: I will not work for an abortion physician, but I appreciate the fact that Planned Parenthood's services far outweigh abortion. A lot of it is prenatal services for poor mothers.

I am more disturbed by the State's belief that they have the right to interfere with what goes on between a woman and her doctor.

Pro-life Xtian fundies see these babies as nothing more than future soldiers. If that is the limit of their concern then they need to shut the fuck up; they are no better than pro-choicers. It is even MORE cruel to have a child grow up to the point where he/she has found some happiness just to go fight in someone else's wars.

The Catholic church has done some great works in the world, which is a hell of a lot than any other religion in the world.

"The last republican president that felt a Christian duty to help the poor was Richard Nixon."-Garrison Keillor

What does THAT tell you?

Yes-the Church believes that all life is sacred. That includes people on death row, BTW: Something that RW fundies strongly support. Yes-Leviticus states that homosexuality is a moral sin. But then, the Bible also says that if my neighbor works on the Sabbath, I am obligated to kill him.

In today's world, that is not being Holy, that is a felony. Bush's con game by trying to get Catholics to vote for him based on the Church outdated principles is one of the more pathetic things he has done.

Bush and the RW are not Christians: They are opportunists.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Depends. Strong pro-life/anti gay marriage folk will go with *, but
Edited on Thu Oct-21-04 08:15 AM by GreenPartyVoter
folks who aren't one or two issue voters may well go with Kerry.

Editing to add that this assumes they are not brainwashed watchers of Fox who think only * can keep us safe and the the war on terra is going smashingly.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Catholics who truly support the "culture of life" that Pope John Paul II

speaks of understand that being pro-life means much more than being against abortion. It means being against war, against euthanasia, and against capital punishment.

But it also means seeking to create a new world in which people have changed their attitudes and behavior -- and society has a better safety net for the middle class as well as the pooor -- so that war, euthanasia, capital punishment, and abortion are no longer necessary and fall out of favor. The idea that making abortion illegal accomplishes anything is ridiculous. The way to "end" abortion is to work to empower people to prevent unplanned pregnancies, and also provide financial assistance to women who find themselves unexpectedly pregnant and are feeling financial pressure to abort.

I'm another pro-life Catholic voting for Kerry.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. Padre Pio?
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. LOL

:7
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Lucille Donating Member (402 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. Zogby shows that Catholics do not vote as a group
Zogby has done extensive polling of Catholics and their attitudes; in fact he does biannual polling of Catholics for the Church. What his research has shown, time and time again, is that Catholics vote as Americans first--and that other factors, such as union membership, profession, education, income, etc., are much more predictive as to how Catholics vote. His research has also suggests that Catholics are losing their identity as Catholics.

According to Zoby:

"The tendency of Americans to identify themselves first by nationality means, for one thing, that the "Catholic vote" politicians have sought for generations is really nonexistent."

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/20040121.htm

As I Catholic, I worry that after the Pope dies the Church is going to go to the right and undo some of the changes of Vatican II in an effort to reassert "Catholic identity," and also to stave off inroads made by evangelical Protestants, not just in the US, but throughout the world, especially Latin America. I believe the Church will also more directly align itself with conservative secular politics and no longer emphasize economic and social justice. Just a guess, based on the background of the Bishops the Pope has appointed and the Opus Dei-affiliated "vatican spokesmen" that pop up so frequently.





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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. Everyone should visit www.votingcatholic.org for lots

of good info, a flyer you can print out and distribute, a quiz that, after scoring, shows how closely your beliefs match those expressed by Bush*, Kerry, and the National Conference of Catholic Bishops.

I matched the bishops 100%, Kerry about 70% and Bush* 0%!!!

Bush* is not really in line with Catholic belief, Karl Rove's efforts to claim he is to the contrary
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
15. Probably a split.



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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
16. My daughter in law is Catholic and is voting for Kerry.
She was raised in a very conservative family, but my son has deprogrammed her with the help of Michael Moore!
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. My dad is Catholic and voted Kerry
I am not, but I did also.

:)
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itcfish1 Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Catholics
would rather see a fellow Catholic in office than Satan.
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nostalgicaboutmyfutr Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. Every Catholic I know....
that I call a friend (more than just an aquantence) or relative about 150 or so are voting Kerry...except about 6 who are basically programmed W supporters....the vast majority of these are college and higher educated....

one of the pubs is a principal at a public elementary school...but sends all his kids to private catholic school...i still can't figure that one out...
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vinnievin777 Donating Member (735 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. I am a Catholic
I care about unjust wars,the poor , divisiveness and
racism and I wish they were not around which is why I support Kerry.

Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com
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