Q: What's the difference between Iraq and Vietnam?

[chromotone]

A: Bush had a plan for getting out of Vietnam!

Just heard this on the Al Franken show...

Also reported that tomorrow he will tell which candidate (Bush or Kerry) his show will endorse (but didn't say when during the program)...really!

;)

[smirkymonkey]

1. Ooooo! Good one!

[nporter]

2. Well for starters--

Iraq is in the Middle-East and Vietnam is in Southeast Asia...

;)

[amber dog democrat]

3. For one thing

Iraq was already a sovereign nation and long past colonial occupations by the Brittish.
Vietman had not really been entirely free of occupying forces since the 19th C.

Also Vietnam was a civil war. We happened to pick the wrong side in the context of having a fear of communism, and a penchant for supporting right wing dictatorships.

There was an effort in nation building that began in the Eisenhower era after the fall of the French, where we unwittingly backed reactionary leadlers that were more closely tied to the French Catholic factions.

Also Norht Vietman was far better able to unify against the US as the occupying force.
The fact that we indiscriminately bombed large numbers of innocent farmers, destroyed villiages and tried to forcefully relocate farmers into strategic hamlets did not help.

A huge ammount of the weapons used by the North Vietmanese were of American manufacture siezed from the incompetantly led ARVN forces.

Iraq has yet to really establish an national identity based on consent of its religious and ethinic divisions. Like the USSR, the police and army kept the population under control.

There is not yet a national liberation movement or an agreed upon leader in place.
The North Vietnamese had Ho Chi Minh
And I don't see an effective military leadership for the Iraqis that has a strategic focus.
But give them time.

[daydreamer]

4. based on a lie

LBJ also got the authorization from Congress for the war with a lie (Golf of Tonkin attack).

[amber dog democrat]

5. Well this is where Vietnam and Iraq

are very similar. We have a proud history of declaring wars under false pretenses from the Battle Ship Maine to phantom torpedo attacks....

LBJ got it wrong from the start.

Another difference was that the Vietnam war for independance was based on a politcially idiological movement, organized under a communist revolutionary model.

If there is resistance or a resistance movement in Iraq, it won't or is not secular in nature, but it does stand to pull in Islamists from all over the world.

We can't " wiin" this one either.

[zbdent]

6. and Iraq is different from Vietnam because?

You just told me a reason why they're similar . . .

[amber dog democrat]

7. Its too soon to say more

I still think we have lost this war but for different reasons.

There won't be a Dien Bien Phu or Fall of Saigon. I can't think of an accurate precident. But there are numbers of similar points.

There is no national liberation front.
There is no China to provide logistic and material support
There is no cold war context
There is no Ho Chi Minh as a rallying political figure
There is no recent colonial occupation thwarting this countries desire to
govern its self
There is no jungle to hide rebels or national consensus on what type of
leadership determines strategic policy.
There is no gradual escalation of this war under 3 presidents.
there is no successful model upon what the current puppet govt is based
( The US was trying to model the Vietnam leadership on
what was done in the phillippines )
There was no Civil War - where we picked one side to support
There was no Domino Theory compelling the nations strategic planners
to occupy and hold Vietmam.

[zbdent]

8. Just so you are aware, I was responding to brickgate

and the idea that Vietnam was different because "it was based on a lie".

[Ernesto]

9. The only tangible difference is..................................

38 years.

[geek tragedy]

10. No Turkee in Vietnam? eom

[EnfantTerrible]

11. There's no oil in Vietnam

:smoke:

[eagler]

12. There is much untapped oil under the South China Sea

and in the area around the Philippines.