Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

How do we deal with a religion that wants to bring about the apocolypse?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:06 AM
Original message
How do we deal with a religion that wants to bring about the apocolypse?
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 01:07 AM by JibJab
no, i'm not talking about militant islam. i'm talking about home grown U-S of A fundies. these people are in the millions, and have the ear of congress and Bush. Ever read a book of hymns (let alone contemporary music) that these churches sing? literally every other one is looking forward to death, having a reward for you since you got shitcaned here on earth, and I won't even get into all of the "to die in me is to gain"... rhetoric, which borders on brainwashing, to me. What happens to kids raised in these environments? they grow up, believing that it is their privilege to die for christ, and try and bring about his kingdom on earth. How do we deal with that?

end of rant.

edit: propaganda handed out with halloween candy is just the tip of the iceburg.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. We're on the same page- I just posted this....
(Sorry it's a bit lengthy)


The Real War.


The Human Race is in jeopardy. Currently, a vast war is raging unseen below the surface of our consciousness.

We believe we are engaged in conflicts for many different reasons and under the impetus of many ideals. For the most part, this is true.
We are at war in the Middle East for a number of reasons depending on whom you ask. We are at war here at home over issues of freedom, happiness, and values.
We are at war with economic forces that will spell our demise as a nation unless we all become economic warriors with the understanding that triage may become a very real necessity.

But there is a greater war, one from which all of these symptoms arise. It is the War for the salvation or obliteration of the human race.

I have come to understand, through study of human nature and human consciousness, just what fate humanity has mapped out for itself. I have come to describe my theory as “The Human Omega”.
No one can argue that humans are not an ambitious species. In fact, we know very well that humanity will ALWAYS reach for what it perceives to be within it’s grasp. It is because of this that we have come so far as a species.
I have no doubt that left to explore and flourish humanity will attain transcendence tantamount to true divinity. We will become our own God, made in our image and vice-versa.
We will reach forward to grasp new concepts, new ideas, and new technologies we are not now even capable of imagining. We will take hold of our own evolution. Whether it takes one hundred years, one thousand, one million… it does not matter; it WILL happen. Our descendants will become masters of time, space, and consciousness.

All we need do is survive.

One of the greatest hallmarks of the human race is the retention of knowledge. As we acquire the technology to retain information we utilize it – immediately.

Perhaps you are reading this on a website – imagine the amount of information that site backs up and retains. There may be a Library of Congress’ worth of posts, threads and information held in the server memory and backed up for permanent storage.
Now think of how much information was stored only thirty years ago. A fraction of a fraction of what we store today. How will we preserve everything we want to?

Our divine descendants may well deal with that too, but their methods know no boundaries we can imagine. As masters of time, space, consciousness, and perhaps a number of other curricula we cannot imagine, why not save EVERYTHING?

The trend toward this human destiny is utterly inexorable. Having studied how the human race reaches in all directions; around the globe and ever further into the farthest reaches of space, into the future and farther into the past than even the origin of life on earth. As we delve ever deeper into ourselves, there can be no question we will one day achieve divinity.

Should there exist even a shred of human curiosity in our descendants (Considering curiosity drove them, I imagine more than a shred will persevere.), they will most likely preserve every consciousness that has ever existed.
Everything will be preserved, perhaps they will have no need for machines, or their machines are woven into the very fabric of the universe; but every event, every dream, every thought, every blade of grass ever to exist, everything from the very beginning of time until the end will be forever preserved in living memory.

If this seems far-fetched to you, try to explain an automobile to a Neanderthal.
I don’t understand how these things would work any more than he would understand what makes a Porsche run… but he can understand what it does.

So when a consciousness passes from life, it finds itself with access to every bit of knowledge in the universe. Even yours.
You will awake to know everything, and to be anything.
The vast loop of the continuum will be closed, linear time will become meaningless, and we BECOME divine… We achieve the Human Omega.
For all intents and purposes – this may already be the case given that time is not linear.
We cannot know what philosophy our descendants will operate on, we can only know that we will not know or understand it until we rejoin the Omega Consciousness. We can pretend all we want to be right or moral, but there will certainly be more to the truth than second-guessing the will of God.

This brings us to the Great Fear.

There is no question that we are in pain. We witness the atrocities we visit upon each other, the tortures, the injustices... so much pain.
It is said that those who do evil do so because they are in pain.
One cannot imagine a pain they have not felt, but they experience the pain they have caused.
This then becomes a cycle; The Tormentor is in pain because of the pain he has caused. He does not realize that his pain is self-loathing. He seeks to cause pain to punish himself. The Tormentor turns his pain back into anger that seeks to inflict pain once again.
This pain is unfathomable, but it does not merely reside in the individual, it pervades the human super-, sub-, and unconscious. It is passed around from person to person, culture to culture, generation to generation.
Like a virus, this pain begets itself perpetually; it will not perish until we rise above it.

Just like Jesus said.

But ‘it’ does not want that.
Without getting into Human Superconscious Theory, this is best explained by saying that this vast human suffering has taken on a life of it’s own. Somewhere in the interface between this vast suffering and human empathy, there has evolved a disturbing dissonance, which has yielded a self-sustaining entity.
Pain begets not only pain, but the methods of its continuation as well.

There is an operative effect on the human psyche because of this pain. There is fear.
This fear is so deeply embedded in our racial subconscious that it too has a ‘life of it’s own’.
The fear is of spending eternity with the pain we have caused.

We know that there are one of two ultimate outcomes for the human race.

One is the transcendence of humanity by constant growth and enlightenment.
The other is absolute Oblivion

The pain we are in is the cumulative screams of millions upon millions tortured alive, the tears of child who didn’t want to die hungry the day the death squad came, the mother putting a plastic shopping bag over the head of her baby to futilely try to save it from the poison gas as she succumbs to a rasping death.
There is a great awareness of this horrific torment, both in the victims, and in the tormentors.

This is a pain so great it begs for Oblivion. To forget forever, to have never been is it’s only desire.

This pain has been at war with our destiny for thousands of years.

Should the Human Race survive, this pain will be preserved forever in the consciousness of The Human Omega.
Should the Human Race be extinguished, there will be no Human Omega, and we will all descend into the soft, eternal nothingness of oblivion.

This vicious agony has not sat still and waited for us to extinguish ourselves, nay – it has spent countless centuries engineering our demise.
Through the human subconscious it has worked to trigger our own undoing, and these are the times it has been brought to bear.

Being so imaginative, we have tried to devise methods to explain the world around us with little or no empirical rational.
Religion was one of those methods.
When we developed empathy as a race, we had to find a way to justify taking the life of a screaming animal for our own sustenance. We developed more humane means of doing so and also ‘told ourselves’ that a higher power said it was ok to do so.
Our survival was that ‘higher power’.

But we took religion, which has roots in Human Superconscious understanding, too far.
We let the pain in.

We created the ‘Deadly Meme’ of our own destruction.
For over a thousand years, huge portions of the human race have invested their faith in the end of the world.
Such a powerful impetus as faith extends far beyond and much deeper than the empirical actions of the faithful.
This notion of the ‘end of the world’ has been invested in by so many – it may be impossible to stop it.

Because of a number of books written from the perspective of this pain, we may not survive as a race.
There can be no doubt that the anger of ‘fire and brimstone’ and the ‘Wrath of God’ were not written out of enlightenment, but rather out of the realization that there was so much wrong… so much pain. These writings had such beauty and wisdom, they were accepted as carte blanche and absolute truth, and therein lies the danger.

This belief in the end of the world has fueled the actions of so many of our leaders. They are so certain Armageddon is upon us that they have no intention of preserving our resources or our restraint. They have been fooled into believing that their actions are divine and that the destruction of the Human Race has no impact on achieving divinity.

They have been deceived by the greatest deceiver ever. They have been fooled by that which they believe they are waging war against.

They will go to any lengths to carry out it’s will by lashing out at the agony and creating more. This cycle will wind itself into a literal firestorm of extinguishing rage.

We must not allow these things to occur, we must not allow our leaders to take us into a holy war in this age of mass destructive capability.

For then surely we will embrace oblivion.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. wow, that is truly an excellent post. Will it be published anywhere? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. It's a small part of one of the books I'm working on...
So I hope so.

I'm not sure if enough people will get it if it's on the homepage, but these are DU'ers... I see fairly above-average intellect around here.

PS: What's nt mean? -haven't figured it out yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hatalles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Just in case you check back here...
nt = no text
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thank You n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Send them to Iraq and bring the troops home.
Let them face the fruits of their insanity head on. They can die for "Christ" over there. Seriously. They won't go away even if Kerry wins. In fact, I think it will strengthen their resolve.

What they are advocating is genocide. They need to be held accountable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. I agree 100%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Give it to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. set up kiosks in all the malls
where they can come and voluntarily be euthanized.

those who refuse can be sent to fight the rear-guard action in the bushgang's wars in the ME so we can bring home the troops sooner.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
59. that's the funniest thing I have heard all day!
if only.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. If dying is so wonderful, why are fundies against abortion?
Last month in my area three teenage boys from the same family were killed in a car accident. There was an interview with both parents, who seemed perfectly serene and okay with this. Now, I'm not going to judge them, they may have been in deep shock, but the disturbing thing is I've seen this before. Fundies think death is a good thing. They think when you die you are 'with Jesus in all his glory'. I have seen on websites 'So and so is now in her eternal reward with Jesus. We celebrate her passing.'

I think that's a terribly scary attitude which demeans and diminishes life. But, since they think that, why would they be anti-choice? Those little embryos get to be with Jesus ASAP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
realisticphish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. i think its simple
they are terrified of death. as we all are. but instead of acting like a normal person, or even most christians, and simply making the life we have better, and others lives better, they go through denial, and just say, "well death is good, then"; that is the ONLY reason they are christians; not for the good works, or the love, or anything. they just want the afterlife

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robbie67 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. You make sure those nutballs are nowhere near power
Then they're relatively harmless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Tax them for going political
Christ said his kingdom was not of this world. Meaning not earth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Amen. Render unto Caesar. Tax 'em all.

Unless they get the hell out of politics.

Jesus kicked the moneylenders out of the temple.

It is up to us to kick the evangelicals out of government.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. "Tax. The. Churches." - Frank Zappa ("Heavenly Bank Account")
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 10:38 AM by frankzappa
- from a live version of the song.

"You Ain't Got Nothin' People, Thank The Man"

:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. let's hear it...
what is your God awful secret that is so powerful that it rocks the foundations of the Christian world...this ought to be good.

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Be patient little grasshopper...
it will all come out in due time. O8)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. horsehockey
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 10:47 AM by ProdigalJunkMail
come here and make some hugely outrageous claim that YOU and YOU ALONE have the end-all-beat-all on the origins of the Christian church...and then say, I can't tell you now...it's a BIG secret?!?!?

What a load of hogwash...just about what I figured to receive.

Take your wares and peddle them to someone whom you might be able to sway...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. I didn't make a claim that I alone had this info, did I?
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 11:07 AM by October Surprise
Besides, if you or anyone else would just do your homework, you'd see this stuff isn't some BIG secret. Just too lazy huh?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. done my homework...still believe
and yes, you said you caused some pastor to puke with your amazing revelations...must be something new. I think I have heard them all and read a good bit more than you believe...

Come on, big guy! Hit me with your best shot...I still think you got nothing!

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. you can't back it up...can you? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #37
56. Oh, come now....
If you have information that some know that will rock the foundations of Christianity, please share it with us. How can we be too lazy to do our homework when we don't know what we are looking for?

Go for it. Let us in on your puke-inducing secret.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. Now, now....
that is what such folks WANT -- to stir the Christian into some silly name-calling routine. Remember, "be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."

It is never OUR battle, remember? Glory!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. come on...share
i am so looking forward to having my entire belief structure damaged by you...please...

I think you got nothin'...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. c'mon, man. let's hear the goods. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. that's what I thought...
you got NOTHIN'! Just another blow hard who is full of crap...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. ok...i know you are here now...
let's hear it...trash me, big boy!

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. what the hell was that whole conversation about? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. October Surprise has mentioned that he
caused a preacher to nearly 'puke' by telling him some massive revelation about the origin of Christianity...and I am calling his bluff. I want to know what that massive revelation is that it could be so powerful as to shake a member of the clergy. He is solely interested in telling me to wait...that all will be revealed in time. I say hogwash to that...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #41
51. You're misinterpreting my statement, just as you've apparently
done with your religion (assuming you're a Christian). What I relayed to that pompous ass of a preacher-man was just a juicy, fractional tid-bit of info to send him on his mary (sic) way, to show him he didn't have faith, but his faith was having him. Never even got to the details of the "good stuff" with him, as there wasn't any need. The old fart had spent his whole life living a lie. Is that what you are going to do with yours???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. I once caught a fish THIS BIG!!!!
Show your cards if you've got 'em. I'd be surprised if you actually did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. I guess you must be Jonah then... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I'm sorry, I'm not getting the joke.
Are you implying that all Christians believe in the literal interpretation of the Jonah fable?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I'm sorry it went over your head. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Either it went over my head or it just wasn't funny.
I'm assuming it was the latter, although I'd happy to admit it was the former if you care to explain the part that I didn't get.

I sure hope you're not justifying your original post where you claim to disprove christianity by just disproving scientific fallacies within the Bible. Because that'd just be stupid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. nope...didn't misinterpret anything you said
you said you had something earth-shattering to those of the christian faith. I think you got bupkis and are just trying inflate your own sense of worth. I know for a fact that you have nothing that could change the faith of anyone...let alone a preacher who had spent his whole life in christianity. How do I KNOW that you have nothing? Because you have been asked over and over again (and not only by me) and have provided nothing other than a 'fish-story' as Dr. Wierd so eloquently put it.

Too bad this wasn't poker...I could have made a mint off of you...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Ah, Poker...
One of my favorite games. And sometimes it's so easy to see when someone is bluffing!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
67. please educate me as to where I am living a lie
I would bet dollars to doughnuts you can't even come close...I would bet dollars to doughnut-holes that you can't even respond...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. "please educate me as to where I am living a lie":
In christ's name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. boy, you sure are good at showing a bunch of nothing
tell me this fractional tid-bit (as you put it) that will send me puking my guts up...come on. No more cryptic crap. Put up or shut up...you got nothing...evidence continues to show...that your story is a falicy.

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
et in Arcadia ego... Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Don't you have enough faith
to decipher my cryptic crap? Didn't learn cryptic in sunday school huh? Too bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. last chance
Edited on Tue Nov-02-04 02:53 PM by ProdigalJunkMail
no...you have said nothing more than "I have something" and "in christ's name". No one could decipher that crap. Your story is nothing but garbage...good luck convincing anyone of anything with that...

You got any more? I don't think so. I guess you are probably pretty tired of searching the web the last two day for something that could really rock someone's faith...guess you couldn't find anything to back up your story...

Come on...just admit it...your story is a falsehood...never happened...or prove to everyone here that you REALLY HAVE SOMETHING.

theProdigal

OnEdit : By the way, I am more than willing to go up against you (as you claim no one can) with my religion. I am taking up your offer to shoot me down and make me my puke my guts up. Come on...my religion is here and waiting to be challenged by you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. calling on OctoberSurprise...calling on OctoberSurprise
the thread is about to fall off the page and i wanted to give it one last kick to see if you have the cojones to challenge my faith...you said you could make a preacher puke...i don't buy it. You have the chance to decimate a christian in a public forum...come on! Bring it...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #73
81. i am officially calling BS
you have nothing
you had nothing
your story is a falsehood

Good luck scaring all the preachers into puking their guts up...

I look forward to future conversations with you where you actually provide something other than crap...

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
62. If you had the answer
You would have posted it by now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. on this you and I can agree
even if we don't agree on all matters of faith...good to see you are still hanging around.

theProdigal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #65
75. It's good to see you also
Some things you are right about and some things I am right about in matters of faith. Noone's right about everything. Don't worry about that poster. I have a hunch he/she's just trying to stir things up.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bliss_eternal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. another possibility
Q:What happens to kids raised in these environments? they grow up, believing that it is their privilege to die for christ, and try and bring about his kingdom on earth.

or they end up in porn.;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. Education and marginalization
the way to deal with any cult of death is to educate people so that they can understand the way in which the group has interpreted texts, in this case, the Bible, in a way that uses fear to manipulate their followers.

Show the origins of American fundamentalism. Show the ways in which their interpreations were debunked at beginning of the last century, continuing through today.

This should be done by experts in their religion and by experts in sociology and psychology and American history, and done via the public airwaves.

DO NOT give them our tax dollars to spread their religious beliefs.

Show the ways in which their leaders have skimmed money and have worked with vile politicians in other countries (such as The Moonies in Bolivia and Robertson in Liberia).

Let people hear the Graham/Nixon tapes with Graham's talk about "Satanic Jews."

Address the real issue of economic decline in the middle and lower classes.

Encourage people to practice their religion as an expression of their belief, but note that they do not have the right to impose those beliefs upon a culturally diverse population.

GET BUSH OUT OF OFFICE so that he cannot continue to debase the separation of church and state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Exactly my thoughts. Marginalization is a big part of it.
Everytime someone feeds you a crazed fundie line - look shocked, say "you don't REALLY believe that do you?" or "Wow, you almost had me there" and laugh as though at a practical joke. If you hear something outrageous said by a fundie preacher, go tell your favorite fundie and say "can you BELIEVE someone would say something so ridiculous". If they agree to it, roll your eyes as though you can't believe what you hear. Ridicule the public ones at every turn, but act shocked if someone you know personally seems to buy the crap. Make it embaressing to be a far gone religious wingnut.

We need to adopt the kind of tactics that (ugh, I hate to say this) Gingrich used to turn liberal into a dirty word. Loaded language, the whole damn thing. We as nice, accepting dems tend to want everyone to have their say. We don't like to tread on peoples beliefs. But, in this case, these peoples beliefs will kill us all. In this case, apocolyptic nutcases surely should be reviled.

They are as dangerous or more than ME terrorists that KKKarl would have us cowering from, and they would like us to cower from the homegrown fundie lunatics also. The best response to that is to make it seriously unappealling to any sane, self respecting person to join their cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. Teach proper religion
All religions have stories and myths that describe "the end of times". Employed is a device, "eschatology", and what is relevant
is the emotional experience that is invoked when such a story is told,
as the "finality" is absolute, like a death story, and this vibe
gets people emotional and aware of their inevitable death.

The result of listening to a well versed theology of any religion
pretty much incorporates a whole buncha "holy" beginnings, and a
whole bunch of "holy" endings. All of these are a form of media-
relevant jungian system of archetypes, that embody aspects of the
human spirit that are common, like "love of architecture", "love
of sex", "love", "engineering", and whatnot, all that "good" stuff.
And in the temporal mind, the overbalance on dividing life from
good and bad, creates a destructive "get them off me" vortex, where
the peoples go insane and scrape their skin off with razors, by
mistaking their own dark side, embodied, in a religious personifiction.

I reject the concept that you can shy away from "end of times" myths,
rather teach people what they are, and how they are used in
religion, so that people have some context to frame their awakening.
A little proper learning about religion and process theology
wouln't hurt nobody.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. Dig it-agreed! Religion is the poetry of coping with consciousness well.
Good post.

When I studied child-developmental psychology I was fascinated by the archetypal human experiences addressed in religion through poetry and allegory.

Rational study of our own emotions leads to understanding why people get fearful and commit atrocities.

Some hard-won self-knowledge is in the ancient texts of organized religion but it is mixed up with fearful vindictive violence and only some people can discern which is which.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #49
69. comparative religion should be a mandatory subject
By learning about a set of world religions, as belief systems, and
as contrasting allegory, can be a most invigorating learning
experience. Once before i myself studied such things, i used to
believe that one religion was "more right" than the others. As i
learned more, i came to see them as all the same, and culturally
diffrent based on history, time and circumstances.

Taught religion, would prevent people from being duped by basic
"tricks", like armageddon stories, and by mistaking the words of
the teaching for the essense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. The height of arrogance to think one can bring about armageddon, or
that it will happen on "your" watch.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. pray like hell.......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
21. Keep promoting versions of it that don't buy into the apocalypse bit
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
23. Begin Marginalizing Them
I have begun the use the term "Radical Right Christians". Just like they made "liberal" a dirty word, spitting it out like a curse word, it's time for sauce for the goose.

Their opinions and desires get pushed to the margins if they are seen for the extremist lunatics they are. The only way to make that happen is to call them what they are.

They are the lunatic fringe. They do NOT represent the mainstream. We need to start hammering that point and any other related ones, even if only tagentially connected.

Others i've been using, btw, is "Government Haters", "Military Haters", "Government Sponges" (since they want the gov't to "protect them"), etc.
The Professor
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
24. Force Them to Play Their Hands
and expose themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. We marginalize them. The Republicans may do it themselves
after Nov. 3rd. It'll take a big toll on their party, but the sensible Republicans realize that the Christian Right is a destructive force in their party, and may split with them.

If that happens, they're no longer a problem for anyone but themselves. Just keep them away from power and let them enjoy their paranoid fantasies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. We make them register themselves as threats to society
As I understand it they are hoping to be "raptured" up in mass exodus and the rest of us are left for the punishment that their mean spirited god is going to dish out.
Well I say lets call them on it. If they really believe this is possible we need to get them out of the drivers seats, airplanes, and especially the school buses. If they are going to suddenly disappear they owe it to us not to be in a position that would harm others.
They need to stand up and declare their beliefs and move out of any position that would harm others.
Maybe we could establish a federal fund that would allow them to just sit safely at home until their dreams come true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
richabk Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. 2 possible methods...
1. Keep voting Democrats into office....that would be close enough of an apocalypse for them.

2. Buy them some Nike's, a purple robe, and some Kool-Aid...and tell them Jesus is waiting for them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScaRBama Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
33. Religion...
As far as you look back into the history of man it has been nothing more than a failed attempt to somehow be given favor by GOD for what YOU believe. All Religion divides us into sections or groups that always have the answers. Religion has nothing to do with GOD,it's an attempt by man to play GOD.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyfox Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. True, but...
Jesus was not thrilled with religion either.

What amazes me about such folks as post on these threads though, is that they never seem to consider that some of us Christians (fundies and all) simply love the Lord, share when we are ASKED, and live perfectly normal lives of compassion and caring.

The "book" someone here is writing is an example. Go for it by all means, for I, too, am a writer and enjoy getting published; but another book attacking God and His people... as "seen by" those who have been rejected, dejected, projected, blah blah?

Oh well.

I, for one, KNOW that religion sucks, but Christ is for real -- at least in my life and (if He speaks to me at all) He says LOVE is he key.

So, as a Christian, I love... (well, all except Shrub! Him I detest). LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
34. Hand 'em track suits and razor blades...
...and tell them the comet is on it's way to pick them up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aeolian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
42. You utterly ignore them perosnally, tax their churches into oblivion,
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 12:06 PM by aeolian
and prosecute fucking half of their clergy for pedophillia.

Then you take all the mindless sheeple and force them to learn about a) science, b) books less than 2,000 years old, c) the existence of other people besides themselves, and d) the concept that actions do, in fact, have consequences. This re-education shall be done brainwash-style, a-la Clockwork Orange, complete with Beethoven in the background. Make them vomit every time they even see a crucifix.

Those that can't be re-educated will be ground up into fertilizer for our new genetically-modified, stem-cell-flavored, homosexual drug plants.







*pant, pant, pant*

Sorry...I've just been getting Reeeeeeeeally tired of the christians lately.



EDIT: Oh, and by the way, Jesus was awesome. It's his "followers" I can't stand.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
46. Keep Church and State SEPARATE. It is absolutely critical
Thomas Jefferson was right.

There will always be superstitious people who love magic, drama, death, destruction, and cataclysm. Makes their dreary lives more entertaining. Just keep the nutjobs out of important policy posts.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UpsideDownFlag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. i wonder how much of santorum's base is fundies.
its interesting that even though PA reliably goes democratic in presidential elections, he keeps getting reelected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
48. one little kick...i want OS to see this
and answer...last time...I promise
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mike Niendorff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
50. You pay attention to what they're doing.

Then you expose them. And, if necessary, you stand in their path and block them.


MDN





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
58. defusing a ticking time bomb
This is a little long-winded and esoteric, but I hope people will wade through it. Some historical and theological background was needed before I could make my point.

There is a particular dogma that has gained prominence in the evangelical churches in the United States over the last 20 years, and the nature of this dogma as well as its close integration with a particular political movement, is a subject about which we should all be concerned. The dogma is dispensational premillennialism. Here is a brief description of premillenialism:

The predominant eschatological view among Bible-believing Christians in the twentieth century is premillennialism. Premillennialism is the view that after His second coming, Jesus Christ will rule the earth for 1000 years. Thus Christ’s second coming is before the millennium (premillennial). Premillennialists teach that at the second coming of Christ, the living saints are raptured and the dead saints are raised from the dead. All these saints are given glorified, immortal bodies. They meet Christ in the air and return to rule with Him on earth for 1000 years. This 1000-year period is one of worldwide peace and righteousness. At the end of the 1000-year period Satan is loosed from his prison to deceive the nations. Vast armies rebel and attack Christ and the saints in Jerusalem; these armies are then destroyed by fire from heaven. After the defeat of these rebel armies the final resurrection and judgment take place; then comes the eternal state. This, in brief, is the essence of premillennialism; there are many variations. Among premillennialists there are pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation and post-tribulation rapturists. Dispensational premillennialists place the rapture not at the second coming but at the beginning of the seven-year tribulation.

From "The Premillennial Deception" see link below

The key feature of dispensational premillennialism is the belief that the rapture will occur before the tribulation. The ascendancy of this view has enormous political ramifications. Obviously, people are a lot less worried about provoking, or accepting, a world wide catastrophe if they believe that they, as the chosen, will be gone - raptured up to heaven - before it occurs.

There can be no doubt that Christians today are obsessed with eschatology - the study of the end of human history - and that debates about the meaning of the book of Revelation are splitting Christians into different camps as never before.

The book of Revelation has been hotly debated throughout the history of the church. It is the most obscurely written and diificult to interpret of any of the books of the Bible. In style, grammar, vocabulary and tenets it stands distinct from the rest of the Bible, and there has been controversy all along about its meaning and authorship. Many things in it seem to conmtradict the rest of the Bible.

Many scholars and theologians are wary of this intense obsession on eschatology, as it is distracting Christians from the teachings in the rest of the Bible, and in fact seems to be leading them to think and act in ways that are seriously at odds with the teachings of Christ.

From "The Premillennial Deception" see link below

Premillennialism is based on a literal interpretation of Revelation 20. Most premillennialists are unaware of a postmillennial interpretation. Many premillennialists are told that fundamentalists are premillennial while theological liberals are postmillennial. Most premillennialists do not know that the dominant view among protestants from the Reformation to the late 1800s was, in fact, postmillennialism. Premillennialism became the dominant view after the 1909 publication of the Scofield Reference Bible. Premillennialists are often unaware of the many serious theological and exegetical problems that accompany their interpretation.

http://www.reformed.com/pub/milenium.htm

For a comparison of the different schools of thought about the book of Revelation, see

http://www.doctrine.net/eschatology.html#Historic%20Premillennialism

Incidentally, the idea of the rapture is quite modern, and the word rapture is not mentioned in the Bible.

As Alan Campbell has written: "Such a teaching was unknown to early church fathers as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus and Tertuilian, who were convinced the Christian church would pass through the great tribulation at the hands of an anti-messiah system before the return of the Saviour. Furthermore the rapture theory was not taught by the great stalwarts of the Reformed Faith - Huss, Wycliffe, Luther (Lutherans), Calvin (Reformed church), Knox (Presbyterians), Crammer or even the Wesleys (Anglican, Episcopal, Methodists) in the 18th century." The first mention of rapture was not until at least 1812, and most sources seem to point to 1830 or so.

The early church fathers never preached rapture, which is different from the Second Coming of the Lord. The word rapture is not found in the Scriptures.


http://www.harvestnet.org/revref/historyofhistoricfuturistic.htm

Dispensational premillenialists argue that their view is a literal reading of the book of Revelation, but it is easy to demonstrate that this is not so.

Premillennialists argue that they hold to a literal interpretation of Scripture, while charging that their theological opponents (e.g., postmillennialists) have a tendency to spiritualize prophetic passages. The truth is that premillennialists, amillennialists and postmillennialists all believe that Scripture should be interpreted literally at times and symbolically at other times, depending on the context of the passage and intent of the author. Premillennialist authors tell their readers that they interpret the Bible literally. But if you read their books, scenes with bows, arrows and horses become future battles with tanks, helicopters and airplanes. The mark of the beast becomes a computer chip or bar code. The locusts from the bottomless pit (Rev. 9) supposedly become attack helicopters, and so on. Are there any premillennial authors or commentators who believe that the beast from the sea with seven heads and ten horns (Rev. 13) is a literal creature? The point is, premillennialists, amillennialists and postmillennialists all interpret some passages symbolically and some passages literally.

Then we have the notion that some will be raptured, while others will be left behind. The problem with this interpretation is that it is plainly contradicted by the words of Jesus himself several times in scripture.

Jesus taught plainly that there will be a general resurrection in which all men will be raised on the same day. He did not say that some will be raised, and then the rest will be raised after 1000 years (or for the dispensationalist, 1007 years): “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” (Jn. 5:28-29). The idea that the resurrection of the righteous is to occur 1000 years (or 1007 years) before the end of the world is contradicted by Jesus four more times in John chapter 6: “This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (Jn. 6:39-40; cf. 44, 54). The last day is the day of judgment. “Clearly there can be no other days after the last day.”

Many are asking today how the teachings of Jesus - of forgiveness, of compassion and tolerance, of love - could be stood on their head and be translated into apologetics for war, murder, torture and bigotry.

"In place of Jesus's blessing of peacemakers, the Rapture voyeuristically glorifies violence and war."

http://facultyofchristianity.com/0813391563.html

How could Christians be led to social irresponsibility? How could Christ's teachings allow mistreatment and neglect of our fellow citizens? Only through the dogma of dispensational premillennialism.

An examination of the biblical teaching concerning the second coming of Christ; the millennium; the kingdom of God; the nature, goal and destiny of the church; the kingdom prophecies; etc. has shown that premillennialism is unbiblical; it is exegetically and theologically inconsistent with the clear teaching of God’s Word. Those who defend premillennialism can do so only by disregarding the many passages which teach that the resurrection, final judgment, and delivering up of the kingdom to the Father occur at the end of time. The rise of premillennialism in evangelical churches coincided historically with the rise of unbiblical pietism, Arminianism, dispensationalism and retreatism. Ideas have consequences; if Christians do not believe that God’s moral law is binding on the nations; if they believe that the world still belongs to Satan, that Christians cannot win in history, that believers are not responsible to apply the Word of God to all areas of life—then they will be attracted to a system of eschatology that teaches defeat and falsely leads people to believe that they are free from their social responsibilities.

Why should we care about any of this? Historians and theologians are intensely interested in the debate, of course, but what revelance does it have for the rest of us?

As citizens, Christians and non-Christians I think that we need to confront the dogma that has control over so many people's minds today because of the potential political consequences. This dogma must be confronted.

Keep in mind that we are seeing the ascendancy of one particular narrow interpretation of a handful of passages from one book of the Bible, and that this interpretation is one that is being used to justify unimagined horrors. The fact that the leader of the most powerful military force on Earth - our President - embraces this dogma makes the issue one of urgent concern for all of us.

For non-Christians-

Many Christians, when you try to talk about this now, will immediately try to assess whether you are a "believer" or not, and if you are not a believer, use that to justify not responding to you. Don't let them off the hook. As Christians they have an obligation to witness to non-believers and should not use the excuse that they are resisting temptations of one of Satan's agents when they refuse to discuss this.

For Christians-

If you are uncomfortable with the politicization of one narrow modern dogma, integrated with worldly power, and at odds with the rest of the Bible, it is vital that you speak out about this now.

A certain gang of people professing Christianity has inserted their dogma - claiming it as the only possible interpretation of Christian doctrine - into the political realm. It is intellectually dishonest for them to retreat from a discussion of the political ramifications of this dogma. Therefore, non-Christians need to be aggressive and not back down from discussing this.

It can be argued that religious dogma has no place in the political discussion, and that as the church attempts to influence politics, so will politics influence the church. Don't let people insert religion into political discussions and then refuse to alow you to insert politics into religious discussions. Religion is in our political discussion now, in a virulent and dangerous form, and we have every right to protect ourselves from it.

Premillennialism is the eschatology of defeat and escape. It teaches that the Great Commission will fail, and that God’s plan for a worldwide, godly civilization will not occur in history. The emphasis among premillennialists is on personal witnessing, entertainment, and empire-building for pastors (e.g., Jimmy Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Bakker, etc.). The attitude toward society is “don’t polish brass on a sinking ship.” There is a purposeful neglect of cultural, social, artistic, economic and political issues.

“Amillennialism and premillennialism are in retreat from the world and blasphemously surrender to the devil. By its very premises, either that the world will only get worse (amillennialism), or that the Christian hope is the rapture (premillennialism), it cuts the nerve of Christian action. Who, reading Hal Lindsey’s new book, The Terminal Generation, will embark on such godly ventures as a Christian school, work to establish Christian political goals, biblical law, and the like? If we hold that the world can only get worse, or that we will soon be raptured out of it, what impetus is left for applying the word of God to the problems of the world? The result is an inevitable one: premillennial and amillennial believers who profess faith in the whole word of God number conservatively twenty-five percent of the American population. They are also the most important segment of American society, with the least impact on American life.”

Premillennialism must be rejected because it views Christ’s victory as a massive failure in history, it encourages retreat from our kingdom responsibilities, and it is unscriptural. “Any theory which thus disparages the gospel of the grace of God must be false.”

“The Scriptures not only fail to teach the premillennial system, but they definitely exclude it as a possible interpretation.”


http://www.reformed.com/pub/milenium.htm

also see: Fiery Hell on Earth, GOD TOLD ME TO STRIKE
http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/index.cfm?issue_ID=2457

The final piece of the puzzle is the doctrine of Dominionism - a theological justification for the seizure of secular offices and control of governments. The best research on that subject I have seen is by Katherine Yurica

see: The Despoiling of America; How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
60. Remind them that trying to force Armadeggon is blasphemy.
It's hubristic - they presume they know the mind of God. That's what gets my goat, as a Christian, about them.

Also, to die in Christ is a differnt beast entirly from getting your dumb self shot for a wrongheaded, wrong hearted cause.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Technowitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
61. Keep them the heck away from any kind of power over others
And most especially away from weapons, especially the ones that make really big booms.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wordout Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
63. In order to maintain their tax exempt status
implants of digital angel will be required for all church members.
Decay will begin immediately. :)



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
twenty2strings Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
66. when the rapture comes can i have my country back?
Edited on Tue Nov-02-04 02:01 PM by twenty2strings
:beer: more beer for me too. god is love you dumshits! (not you guys.) we are winning with love and music. cheers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
70. Don't elect them to decide our foreign policy. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
helnwhls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
76. tell them it is the end of the world as they know it
kick their puppet officials out of our government. Actually enforce the laws that have been twisted to do what their own scriptures would call evil. But it might also be time for me to catch a quick nap before I go back to the polls.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
77. By getting your facts straight for starters.
"Christianity" does not want to bring about the Apocalypse. Fundamentalist extremists withing Christianity want to bring about the Apocalypse.

We start by not demonizing ALL people of any one faith in the name of a few.

No, not all hymns are about heaven, but many are. So are many gospel songs, which were written out of slavery, torture and oppression. Life sucked bad, and hope of heaven and the joy that comes with that dream was an important source of strength.

The actually Scripture, friend, says "for me to live is Christ and to die, gain." In other words, to live in the spirit is to live in Christ - a joyful thing for sure - but, if and/or when we die, we can be comforted by the knowledge that to die means simply we gain access to the rest of eternity, and eternal life with him. The idea of heaven, it isn't the purpose or point of many people of faith - it is like the benefits package.

The main good news in my life is my believe (which I'm not forcing on anyone else, but it works for me) that with him, and through him, I can enjoy a life worth living, no matter what I face. See, I believe that spiritual faith and the peace and joy it brings me, gives me the grace by which, no matter when/where or how I die, I will be able to say, "living was worth dying for." That is the covenant I believe in. It has nothing to do with heaven - that's a perk :) Part of the benefits package.

What happens when a kid grows up in these environments? Well, I turned out just fine. :) (So did my parents in fact, who have evolved and changed so much over the years - some of the most loving and beautiful people I know.)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. Too much logic.
What's the point of starting a time-wasting flamebait thread if people like you show up with reasoned responses?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Sorry :D
hehe..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gavodotcom Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
82. Give homosexuals the same rights as everyone else.
Balance the budget, pay down the debt, save social security, disentangle ourselves from this Iraq debacle, raise the minimum wage, and nationalize health care.

Then wait for the meteor.

When it doesn't come, laugh at these fucking morons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Ya know.... anybody who wants to bring about such an event... really
really should be checked out by our Office of Homeland Security... I mean.... sort of sounds like the mind of a terrorist to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC