Am I Wrong To Leave America?

[LiberalTexan]

My husband and I decided that if Bush won, we would move to Europe. We didn't think he would and we poured out hearts out doing everything we could possibly do (just like all of you) to make sure it didn't happen. I haven't been to DU in so long just because every ounce of time I had was working to get Kerry elected. Losing was not an option.

But, now we are faced with the possibility of having absolutely no say in this country. All three branches of government are Republican controlled. Nothing short of taking to the street with arms will prevent them from ruining this country as they will. I don't have to run down the list of bad things that happened overnight. Is it wrong to make our plans to leave this country?

This is very painful for me and I come to DU for your guidance. I feel like I'm running away, but I also have a personal choice: raise my child (she's 6 months old now) in Bush's America with my immigrant husband (what will Ashcroft do to us?)-- or move to Europe to enjoy sticking my head in a vacuum for a couple of years to decompress and forget all about the dying, the pollution, the drilling and the stripping of women's rights.

What would you do?

[flamingyouth]

1. I want to leave too

In fact, I'm seriously looking into it. I only live 150 miles from Vancouver.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. No. If I could do it tomorrow I would

I don't want to live in a racist, homophobic bloodthirsty nation.
If I had lived in Nazi Germany, I would have moved.

[qanda]

3. WWPBLD?

Get on the next thing moving me to Europe and not care what anyone on DU had to say about it.

[mindfulNJ]

4. Don't leave America...

... move to a blue state.

[uppityperson]

58. exactly

though you must do what is best for you. If it is moving, move. If you are able to continue to live and work in a red state, do so. If it is moving to a blue state, do so. Whatever you do will be hard work (no irony intended) but do what you must, keep in touch with those you love.

[camero]

5. No you're not wrong

It's too bad I'm stuck in the US (not enough money to stay in Canada) or I would be right here.

[NEDem]

6. If I my wife and I didn't have kids we'd be on the next plane out of here.

Unfortunately I don't want to take my 3 year old son overseas and away from his grandparents. Its a tough call.

[LiberalTexan]

34. I understand, deuce

This would be hard about leaving, too. But, I wouldn't be gone forever. Maybe just two years. I feel like I need a little break.
Her grandparents are in KC. Her other grandmother is in Argentina. So, it only evens the score for the grandparents....

I'm really struggling with the goods and bads of this. John Edwards, Randi Rhodes, numerous e-mails from Move-On and NRDC, etc, are telling me to stay and fight. Ah, what to do, what to do.....

I would NEVER usually be the one to ask this question. I'm the "stay and fight" girl.

[Cerridwen]

7. If you DO decide to leave, that doesn't mean you have to

quit fighting. In some ways, you may have more freedom to fight than those who stay behind to fight.

My .02.

[kayell]

20. This is what I think too. Its a lot easier to fight if your safe and free

...and alive.

[redherring]

8. Just go to a blue state like NY

At least you'll meet people who share your beliefs. Why move somewhere else?
I just hope Florida is invaded by droves of democrat leaning hispanics, he he he. What I'm saying is we just need to Northernize some Southern states like Florida and we're all set.
We need to reach out more for hispanic votes. We did poorer than Gore did in 2000 in this regard.

[LiberalTexan]

35. Well, it's not that I have a problem with Texas....

I love my home state. We do have work to do. If I didn't care I wouldn't have stood out in the 55 degree F rain and wind yesterday with my Kerry Edwards sign for five and a half hours.

No, moving to a blue state wouldn't fix how I feel. I still have to turn on the news and see the f*-ers face, that smirk, and all hell break loose around me.

I just thought going to Europe for a while would help us focus on other things in our lives for a while.

I feel like I gave birth last night. No, it was worse than birth. At least then I got something wonderful to show for it. Last night was more like a night on the toilet I guess......

[Unforgiven]

65. Don't waste your

time with Florida. It is a corrupt back ass tourist trap that once used to be a tropical paradise. Lived here all my life (50) years and have seen so much change, most of it bad. some good.
The developers have had a free reign to do whatever they have wanted to do and now it's too late to save, the state has been altered to the point of no return.

[UNIXcock]

9. I refuse to quit, I love my country

... I will stay and fight to right the wrongs. Europe has problems they can't fix either.

... My I ask, what do you expect to do for a living there?

[LiberalTexan]

37. I love my country, too

I guess I can see the salt coming and this open wound isn't ready for it. I feel like what voice do we have left? We are controlled now. At least before we had an impending election that was stopping them from ramming through so much. Now there is nothing. This vast wasteland of drilling, and pollution and loss of a woman's right to choose and social security. It's too painful to comprehend. I just thought if it weren't in my face 24 hours a day I could get a breather.

As for what we'd do: My husband is seeking his Italian citizenship so we can live and work locally in the EU. We've been considering it for a while now. He's already passed up other offers to go live there. Now we are thinking we won't pass any more offers up.

[kittenpants]

10. America left us

[TahitiNut]

18. Yup. America has betrayed itself.

[msturgis524]

11. I for one am here

I love my country, and I want to take it back. I don't have kids so less of an issue there. I'm white and middle class with a decently secure job. While I fear for my country I don't fear for myself. I gave long and hard thought to the idea of leaving, and all I could conclude was that I need to stay and fight. Good luck and we hope to keep you here.

[camero]

22. How to do that?

We certainly can't do that at the ballot anymore. The elections are a sham.

[Rochambeau]

66. 1st they came for the Jews..... n/t

[info being]

12. We should start an expat forum...I'm right behind you.

Moving to Europe in April.

[LiberalTexan]

41. AN EXPAT FORUM!!

Brilliant idea! We could really use it to organize the millions of overseas voters. This is a good idea.

[ArcRabbit]

13. Don't Blame you

No, I don't blame you for wanting to leave and I would actually recommend it in your case. If you want to keep your child safe and to grow up without stupid ideas they may get from school or whatever.

Honestly, I would move to canada or europe if I could. But I'm very poor with no job (thanks BUSH!!). So I'll be sticking around till I can at least get some money up to leave.

[LibertyLover]

14. Leave

When it became apparent last night that things were going badly for Kerry and the Democratic party, my husband turned to me and asked in all seriousness if I could get a posting overseas. In the past I would not have considered it because we have several dogs and the problems inherent with relocating them are immense. However, I am so upset by this election's results that I am beginning to re-think my position on a post overseas and would give serious consideration to saying yes if one were offered to me.

[Dora]

15. Why pull your support from your brethren

by hightailing it out of here?

It takes money, big money, to be able to afford a move to another country. How many of us have that?

My husband and I (we're in Austin) have bandied about the ideas of Canada and Europe, and even Venezuela was sounding good to me for a while. Frankly, moving still sounds good to me.

But you know what else sounds good? A nice heroin trip. Robbing a bank and getting away with it. Eating myself sick on leftover Halloween candy. All of these sound good to someone, somewhere, but they're all bad ideas because they'll ultimately only cause suffering, either of the self or of another.

I can't bring myself to leave. My husband and I were both born on the 4th of July and consider ourselves diehard patriots. We're staying, and we're standing by every single person who feels just as fucked over by this election as we do.

Please don't leave. Stand by me.

[sugargoose]

32. You won't miss me

My liberal vote means nothing in Kansas anyhow.

[Eurobabe]

16. email me, I left last time, have a story to tell...

TC -Crozet

[kayell]

17. No, you're wise. Before Kerry conceded, I would have fought tooth and

nail for as long as it took, but it is now time to think of our safety.

America as we knew it is dead. There are other, better, saner countries.

I hope I can find a way out too.

[Individualist]

19. You're not wrong

If I could afford to do so, I'd leave. Dark days of fascism are ahead for this foolish nation.

[exJW]

21. You may be wise to leave, but please...

...stay involved! Vote, discuss, champion, from afar. I'd go too, if I had the resources.

[nansocal]

23. It really is your decision.....

to do the right thing for your family. But I would say stay, and help make america better. They would love to get rid of us, and some of us fall for their tricks. But to run is not the answer , in my opinion. good luck.

[noiretextatique]

24. no, you aren't wrong

enjoy your life, and give your child a good life.
i am looking into leaving myself. i was at a bar last night, and a woman started talking about "all the minorities voting for bush." i am african-american, and i told her LOUDLY: it's not "minorities" who are the problem.
i am sick of this country...i am sick of the battle. i am just sick of it all.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. No. You're not wrong. GO! get out while you can!

This is NOT going to get any better any time soon. If you can, go.

[Frederic Bastiat]

26. NOPE, I quit in 2002

Life is too short.

[0007]

27. Only you have the answer to that question!

The way I feel right now and if the wherewithal were not a problem, I wouldn't hesitate.

OTOH NO one will run me out of my coutry.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. I feel you

I was crestfallen this morning, but I held out hope that Kerry would actually fight. Now, I am angry and hurt. I am willing to leave this country. I have been unemployed for 17 months, about to lose my health insurance, and have a partner that the law does not recognize. Why should I stay here? This country has been overrun with bigots and stupidity! HOW did the president who lost millions of job, never saw one new net job, took a $5 TRILLION surplus and turned it into a $5 TRILLION deficit, lost us all our allies (except Poland!), and LIES to the public get elected?!?! What the fuck is wrong with this country and its people?! I am looking for jobs overseas now. There is nothing left here except my family, and I will miss them.

[SmileyBoy]

29. I'm leaving for Canada in January.

Not sticking around.

[UNIXcock]

38. Those seriously contemplating a move to Canada should read this article

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=5&u=/nm/20041103/us_nm/election_canada_haven_dc_1

[ILeft]

50. Good article. It's a long, difficult, and fairly expensive process.

Just take a look at the paperwork involved. It would be easier getting into the TANG during the Vietnam war.

[GOPisEvil]

30. I'd go...if only temporarily.

I hope you are doing well otherwise. Can you believe it's been HOW LONG since our first Texas gathering?

[LiberalTexan]

47. Hi GOP!

Yes, it's been forever since we sat at Scholtz's believing we could take back the country someday. Now it's to the point that we have to watch it all totally fall apart before it gets better. Sometimes I'm torn between feeling like a failure for leaving and feeling like it's impossible to stay.

I just have this really bad feeling that the destabilized world we are creating is bound to retaliate against us. I live in the eighth largest city in this country. Why would I feel safe? I wonder if we can get out before something really bad happens?

I hate to leave my family behind, especially since this is what they wanted. They voted for the fucker.

I'm so conflicted right now. One moment I feel like I did everything I could (and more) and other times I cry because I should have done more. All I'm saying is that maybe a break from all this would be in order for my sanity and our safety.

That and when I do get to Europe, I won't be speaking my American English on the street for anyone to hear. *sigh*

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

31. It's up to you.

For many reasons, pro and con, I'm staying.

[Rockholm]

33. Serious thought on leaving, but another idea?

As others have said....Move to a Blue State! We really have it great here in Massachusetts. The schools are excellent. It is an awesome place not only to raise a kid, but it is a great please to be a kid.
I am from SC and went to college in Houston. I moved to Boston in 1986 and have never looked back. There is nothing in the south for me. The blue states really and truly are the place to be.

[rullery]

36. Caution: since your husband is an immigrant,

be sure that leaving the country for an extended time will not prevent him from re-entering the U.S. later on, like when we get a Democrat back in the White House.

[maddezmom]

39. please stay and fight...I just moved to this red state and we need you

formerly an ex-pat...glad to be back to join the fight.

[friesianrider]

40. i'm leaving/

I don't like the thought of converting idiots to my side. If the last 4 years can't help them grow a brain, nothing ever will.

[Mr_Spock]

42. Fools, all of you!

I would never shy away from a fight. They win when we don't fight.

[LiberalTexan]

48. Please don't call us fools

I have answered many of the posts above to clarify that this is not some knee-jerk reaction to a failed election. People that know me know I would be the LAST person to go negative. I'm just saying a break would be in order. Please read my posts above before casting judgment.

[Mr_Spock]

56. That's OK - I believe you if that's what you say

It's just not the first reaction people should have - that is what I am saying.

[LiberalTexan]

64. Mr_Spock

My husband and I have been considering this exit strategy since probably April or so. We've talked about it a lot, but nothing really meant much till it hit home last night. Then I just got physically ill, cried for hours and didn't feel like I could get up off the couch to even go to bed. It was like I weighed 1,000 pounds. Maybe I'm just taking this too hard. I voted in Palm Beach County, Florida last election. I guess I'm just tired of getting the short end of the stick and us always losing.

[Selwynn]

43. Hell no. If there was ANY WAY I could, I would.

[JPace]

44. Well let me put it this was....

if our forefathers had baled out when the going got rough,
we would have been born into a nation of far more problems
than we were.

Do you owe it to future generations to fight just because that
is what our forefathers did for you?

You answer...

[LiberalTexan]

49. One small difference:

Our forefathers didn't run the risk of a nuclear or biological attack in a world where the majority of countries hate us.

Again, I wouldn't be leaving forever. I'd come back in a couple of years-- probably with plenty of time (and more energy) to fight for our next candidate.

Does anyone just plain not feel safe here?

[JPace]

71. Well then go....

they have not locked up the borders yet.

[Native_Iowan]

45. No Wrong Choice

You have to follow your heart on this one. Believe me - I love Western Europe - I visit it often and am much more in tune with its way of living than I am with America. I dream of living or retiring there one day.

That said, I feel that for myself, there is more for me to do in this country. I am a single bachelor and have no children for whose future to fear. Our fight is not dead yet. We took a brutal hit last night and this country is drifting into madness - ask anyone observing from the outside - they will tell you. That said, we still have the semblence of a democracy and after a period of grief, will find a way out - the planet's future depends upon it. For now, my fight is here.

But leave if you feel it is right. There is no reason why you cannot to continue to support your country from abroad - we live in a wired world. You can love your country and feel estranged from it at the same time. The balance lies in what feels like the right thing to do. One question to ask: Do identify more strongly with being an American or being a citizen of the world? If it is the latter, you have your answer - leave freely with a clear conscience.

I MAY ADD- I heard from my brother this morning. He and is wife are considering finding a way to move to Ontario. They are finished with this country. I cannot blame them.

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. You have to do what you feel is right for your family

I think this is a personal choice! I won't judge anyone who feels the need to leave. I can not leave, financially it isn't feasible for my family. Not sure I would if I could. I was born here and it is the only place I have ever lived.

[LiberalTexan]

51. Hi texasblueeyes

That is part of my conflict I guess:

Right now it is feasible to move because DH's company would pay for it. However if we stay in an economy like this one, how long would it be before he's laid off. They've been threatening it for about a year now while others around him fall. He's in the telecom industry, so we wouldn't bounce right back from it.

I just don't see this economy getting any better. We are trying to be proactive by making a move before the shit hits the fan.

[idiosyncratic]

52. A friend is considering moving to Toulouse, France

He just got back from an extended visit and he loved the people and the lifestyle.

His high school French came back to him fairly well and he said most of the people were patient with his attempts at conversation.

David Sedaris lives part of the time in France and he likes it there.

I wonder how long it takes to learn a Foreign Language at my age?

[Andromeda]

53. Nobody can tell you what to do,

and we all understand your sorrow but I was born in the US and I'll be darned if I'm going to let the Bush Cartel run me off.

This is my country and I hope to see things change for the better in my lifetime.

Nobody should forget what happened and we need to keep fighting back. We need to win the propaganda wars and so far the Republicans have us beat on that.

The media is NOT our friend and we need to find a way to change that. We must not let them get away with anything. Everything they say and do must be challenged.

Spreading propaganda is repetitive. If you say something over and over again enough times people begin to believe it.

Republicans started taking over the airways about 30 years ago and they have honed this technique to perfection.

Don't leave. Stay and fight because we need you.

[baltodemvet]

54. Where can you go?

and be safe from the US? Leaving means turning over the most powerful country in the world to madmen. You or your children will end up at the mercy of US power. Our best shot at winning is right here.

[alfredo]

55. I love America, but America has changed. It is now gone fascist.

We have an insane religious nut as president and he is being manipulated by some evil Straussians. It appears that the majority believe when their ministers say their murderous god speaks through bush.

Fuck em.

I got this in the mail today from Europe.

hi al,

here they say in the news that bush has won. everything was good
until they find out how ohio folks voted.
hm. should I start to look for a house for you and jane here? I
don't know if living in states would be good, especially when
you hear or read about all that New World Order crap...

regards

rK
ps. I am worried.




that was a real nice gesture, but I am 60 years old, sick and tired. Moving might be difficult. I hate the thought of leaving all behind, but I wouldn't miss the puritanical core of this land. It had to resurface again. It is that Puritanical Christian core that makes us rigid, arrogant, and violent.

The young man in me wants to fight, the old man wants to spend his last few decades in peace.

[pmbryant]

57. There are other options

I would stay, and am going to stay, despite living deep in the heart of Texas, in a county which voted more heavily for Bush this time around than last time, despite our misguided hopes that we could pull it out for Kerry.

I understand that living in the midst of these people can be frustrating and maddening, and I certainly would think many times before deciding to raise kids here (I have none).

Fortunately, there are other options. There are areas of this great country where the proportion of progressive thinkers is much greater than that of the reactionaries.

I would consider moving to one of those places before moving to a foreign country. We are going to need every single one of us to fight the coming storm, and your help will be felt more strongly if you are here in this country amongst us.

But you must do what you feel comfortable with. If that is leaving the country, than I certainly would not tell you to do otherwise.

Best of luck to you and your family, and it is nice to see you posting here again after so long an absence.

:-)

Peter

[LiberalTexan]

60. Thanks, PM

My long absence has been due to fighting tooth and nail to remove Bush. I also had a baby in May and I'm finishing up a medical internship (done in May 2005, so I'll be here till at least then).

I am just concerned for the wrath that lies ahead. I know folks have mentioned moving to another part of the country, but all the places I love are Repub: Texas, Kansas and now Florida.

I'm trying not to look at this as giving up. You who know me know that I tend to be more on the Pollyanna side than anything else. I guess I'm really worried about some pretty brutal terrorist attacks ahead for this country. I didn't see anyone else mention that. Maybe I'm just delusional? This administration makes me feel unsafe (I won't even get into all the civil liberties they will strip, et al)

[pmbryant]

68. Very understandable

We have no reason to trust for our safety from terrorists under Bush. Unfortunately, the same problem applies all over the world. Bush's actions raise the likelihood of terrorist attacks all over the world (as Spain and Indonesia and Australia found out).

The civil liberties problems are very worrisome. I don't know enough about other countries to know if they are much better in this regard.

Not too long ago, the U.S. was a shining light for civil liberties, but those days appear to be gone. Hopefully just for the time being.

:-(

Peter

[Unforgiven]

59. Don't feel guilty

As a matter of fact stay in touch, as my wife and I are planning to visit Europe in early 2005. Looking to relocate there.
Maybe we can get group rates?!!! ;)

[LiberalTexan]

61. I'll be back

To DU as my support group now that that's all I have.
Also, I'll be back to the US if it's even in the cards to leave.
We wouldn't go before May 2005, so it is you who will have to keep in touch with me and let me know where you plan on going. Spain or Italy is in the cards for us.

[DemBones DemBones]

62. Go if you can. I will if I can. eom

[frank frankly]

63. no, you are not wrong

some will stay and some will leave. both, to me, are correct.

i must say that i have not decided what i will do.

i am thinking over and over again of Hunter S. Thompson:

"Big Darkness Coming"

"When the going goes wierd, the wierd go pro."

I don't know what that means for me yet, but its my mantra so far today.

[LiberalTexan]

67. My mantra is from Randi Rhodes today:

Absolute Power corrupts absolutely. She made it almost attractive the prospect of sitting around and watching the administration and the republican party implode. If there weren't so many lives in the balance, it might actually be fun to watch.

[sabbat hunter]

69. stay and fight

thats what i would do

see my post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2589628

[radwriter0555]

70. Venice Italy sounds real real real good right now... My 11 year old

daughter and I are discussing it.

We've decided Mexico is more tropical than we care for, we want something more urban I think.

I'm pushing her pretty hard. I can get about a half million for the house, and come out with quite a stash of cash.

I've been checking housing prices and it's not bad at all. I could have a little flower shop or something small, the cost of living is very low there. Wouldn't need a car... groceries are fresh, daily. So why not?

[foreigncorrespondent]

72. Honey...

...if I was in your boat, I would be planning my exit very quickly!

Like you said, they control all three branches now, and so they are gonna push their bullshit through and the people will not have a say.

Hell, us Aussies are in a similar boat to you guys, with the Howard government controlling every section of the government as well. Right now, I am just sitting here, but if Howard makes a move to ban any more rights for gays, women, or any other minority I am out of here, because I realize my country is not worth my trying to save it. I want a life, where I can sit on a porch with my (American) partner and just talk about general stuff, and not worry about the state of a country any longer.

So go! Find your life in Europe and don't look back. Maybe one day the U.S. will be the country she once was, and you will be able to move back, but for now, think about yourself and your family, because that is more important than any country.

[Hippo_Tron]

73. I could apply to college in Canada next year...

But I won't. I'm going to stay and fight these bastards. But I'm in a fortunate situation, I'm a white kid from a well-off background. My parents can afford healthcare, they can afford to send me to college, and while I am concerned about the draft, I'm betting on a college deferment because Bush needs to keep the rich people happy. I sympathize with your situation and I my thoughts and prayers go out to those who are not as fortunate as I am.

[Rochambeau]

74. Beware if you intend to move to Europe because we have a true employement

problem here. Find a job BEFORE leaving ! About the italian nationality of your husband I understand your plan since many argentinians are from italian descent. Is it the case ? Anyway you don't need your husband or yourself to be European to move to Europe, many, many US expats working here and they don't seem to regret it.

This said about technical problems let me tell you(vanity) what I would do in your situation. I would move not to a blue state but to a swing state. My choice would be Florida as far as I don't believe it will remain a red state forever but still remain a swing one. You'll find people who share your vision of your country, people who still fight like you did, it's the sunshine state (well you're not from Montana so I guess it can be a good point), a lot of latino ambience your husband may enjouy and you will be useful to your country. Just ask the Quebecans which are the dirty methods of the Ottawa government to prevent secession from Quebec ! They do their best to make people from english speaking states and immigrants, who both fear the secession, to move to Quebec and it works, at every election !!!
Of course you would still have to watch their scumbags faces on tv but the disgust you feel now will be tolerable sooner then you think, as soon as the will to go back to front will be back (and it will soon I'm sure). Time heal that sort of feeling you have now IMO and on the other hand you can't move from a continent to another with kids every three months !

[expatriate]

75. Only you can judge what is best for you, and

no-one else should stand in judgement of you.

I live outside the US, and moved during the Clinton years for entirely personal, not political reasons.

It sounds as if you and your husband have thought this out thoroughly, done your research, and understand what you will need to do to live elsewhere in the world. If that is your choice, I support you with all my heart. Personally, I would not want to raise a child in America as it is now.

I am very perturbed by the number of people who are posting that they are going to go to Canada or Europe on these forums - not because they're considering leaving America, but because they seem to have absolutely no idea what is involved in taking such a step.

You can't just walk into another country and say "Hi, I'm here!", get a job and settle down. There are procedures that have to be gone through. It also doesn't suddenly make you "free" of America.

Here are a few facts - not for LiberalTexan, but for people who are now considering a move out of the USA.

1. Research! Look up the website of the immigration department of whatever country you are considering moving to, and see just what you must do to move there. In most nations, you cannot just go there on a tourist visa and then get a job, anymore than someone can come into the US on a tourist visa and get a job. Such an action can lead to imprisonment and deportation!

2. Many nations' immigration policies lead to a wait of months or even years to be able to emigrate there, and you might even end up having to have a lump sum of money or a job in that country before you can get in.

3. Many nations have health regulations, and will not let you in if you have chronic health problems. New Zealand, in particular, is strict about this, because their health care system is quite fragile and cannot support people with severe health problems.

4. Some nations require a period where you are not able to work, depending on the sort of visa you get. You will need to be able to support yourself, or have someone support you during this period. This was the case when I moved to Australia.

5. DO NOT LISTEN TO ANECDOTES FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE EMIGRATED TO THE COUNTRY YOU ARE CONSIDERING AS A FIRM BASIS OF HOW YOU SHOULD DO THINGS UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE FACTS! More people have gotten screwed over in trying to emigrate because they listened to someone they knew rather than finding out from the Immigration Department of the country itself. Each emigration case is different, and you should never try to do things the way someone else has done them unless that is the best scenario for you in your particular situation.

6. Don't believe what you see in movies. Many nations have gotten rid of the laws that allowed someone to marry a national to achieve instant citizenship for themselves, including Australia.

7. If you are an American citizen, you are still liable to pay American income taxes on your income, even if you are not resident in the USA. America is the only nation to base its taxation on citizenship and not residency. And yes, you will also be liable to pay the appropriate taxes in the nation where you reside. Leaving America does not free you of paying American taxes. The IRS can make your life miserable if you are an overseas American.

8. Even if you renounce American citizenship, the IRS still claims to be able to get hold of taxes from you for ten years afterward. It is also stated in the laws regarding renunciation of American citizenship that those who are eligible for Selective Service (the draft) can still be drafted. If the IRS determines that you have renounced American citizenship with the intention of avoiding taxation, you can be barred from re-entering the USA for life, regardless of what citizenship you take or what passport you may travel under.

9. Be extremely wary of immigration lawyers. Absolutely avoid any lawyer who "guarantees" you that he can get you into a country or get you citizenship. These people prey on the ignorance of people seeking citizenship in other nations, and they will suck you dry of every penny you have (ask me how I know =-( . ) In most places you can go through the immigration process without a lawyer, but you MUST educated yourself THOROUHGLY before trying to do this.

In other words, do your homework. Regardless of what you see in films, you don't just walk out of the country, hand in your passport, and become the citizen of another country. You cannot be given political asylum or refugee status, because conditions in America do not warrant it. People who are truly political asylum seekers and refugees are having a hard enough time finding countries that will take them - no nation is about to start taking Americans who claim to be either, no matter how threatened you might feel right now.

It can be done, and it can be done without a whole lot of money in some cases, but you have to be ready for it to take time, and you must accept that it will not entirely free you from American taxation.