It seems to me that if this ship is EVER going to be turned

[harrison]

around, we MUST get to the truth of the matter. And that is, did we have massive fraud because of bbv? Did the issue of gay rights bring out the worst kind of American impulses? Were the Swiftboat ads effective against a medal winner? In other words, before we attempt to make any real corrections, we have to know what to fix.

I know this is self-evident, but I have seen posts attempting to fix the blame. However, we must have these answers so we know which road to take.

[grytpype]

1. The ship is going to have to wreck before it turns around.

[damntexdem]

2. It was the culture war.

The one being waged on the world by the religious rightwing. All of the other things (e.g., attack on a war hero by Swiftboat Liars for Bush) are just symptoms of that -- any lie is OK so long as it serves 'God's purpose.' The fascists won the election, and they intend to reshape America.

It was too widespread to be BBV alone -- although I have my suspicions about Ohio.