What Do You Think Is George W. Bush Another Hitler?

[PennyMan]

Excerpts From The Article:

Bu$h won’t need a war tax, he’ll just keep increasing the Defense budget and endanger Social Security, Medicare and other Federal programs. We’re already back to deficit spending! (A predicted 10-year surplus shrank by $4 trillion since last year

Last week, Bu$h gave the FBI new surveillance guidelines that allows the FBI to monitor all Internet sites, libraries, churches and political organizations. It’s time for us to read George Orwell’s "1984.

More Can Be Found Here http://www.straightgoods.ca/ViewLetter.cfm?REF=846

[lateo]

1. It isn't that W is Hitler...

the problem is...Bush is not enough UNLIKE Hitler.

[Inland]

3. Second that.

[Ruffhowse]

2. Bush is WORSE than Hitler, because he brings into power an evil

and vile theocratic movement within this country that will destroy democracy and personal freedom in America. Be prepared for Fundie Inquisition trials in the not too distant future.

[classof56]

10. What do you think the Fundie Inquisition trials will be like?

I have been an evangelical Christian for most of my life, but I have such huge problems with the direction we're heading down, thanks to the "fundies", and I am severing my association with southern Baptists, etc. However, I have a relative who is now questioning my very salvation since I told her I don't believe in the Rapture. And a Catholic priest informed me I'm a heretic because I don't acknowledge that the Catholic Church is the one true church. I have this sick feeling that standing up for my beliefs and principles is going to send me to the lions, or I'll be staked out to be burned, like the Christians in the first century, or incarcerated for life. And wouldn't be surprised if my relatives turned me in--fine Christians that they are!

I hate all this. Can only pray that God will overlook the idiocy of this destructive administration and grant us his individual favor, then open the eyes of those who are currently blinded by the right.

Tired Old Cynic

[newscott]

14. Welcome to the club

We atheists need friends too!!! :evilgrin:

[Blue_In_AK]

24. Don't be a Christian, be a "Jesusonian"

99 percent of what the fundamentalist Christians (who have usurped the term "Christian) are preaching nowadays has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, IMHO. I am a Jesusonian. If people lived by his precepts, this would be a lot better world.

[TankLV]

39. The "rapture" is heresy - invented by a wacko English preacher.

Has no basis in any biblical writings.

NONE.

It is a pure invention by religious "holier than thou" wackos.

[classof56]

42. Yep, I'm inclined to agree with you now,

although I accepted the "snatched up" theory for most of my life. As did my grandfather (died in 1959 at age 80-something,my mother (died in 2003 at age 96) and a bunch of other family members, all of whom were convinced they were going to avoid death via the Rapture. I believe it became a popular concept by fundies around 1830, meaning for a couple thousand years after Jesus' death it just laid there as a "doctrine"--so to speak. Just finished a book that convinced me the Big R is not found in the scripture that ended up being today's Bible. Odd how we let ourselves get "sucked in" on these doctrinal issues. Not sure, though, that I want to call my fundie relatives "heretics". Pretty much cut me to the quick when the Catholic priest called me that. And I used to believe names can never harm us!

TOC

[genieroze]

45. I can relate as an ex Catholic born again Christian who happens to be

liberal. I don't care what these people say because they endorse war and poverty, lying, stealing, and murder. These things are against Christ.

[Dimsdale]

17. "The Coming of The Third Reich"..

by Richard Evans. Haven't read it yet, but it addresses Hitler's use of religion to further his agenda. Chimpy's approach to fascism is different from Hitler's in what way? Fuck if I know.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bunny planet]

28. Try reading a book called 'They Thought They Were Free'

Can't think of the author off hand. It is available on Amazon though. The book interviews people in post WWII Germany about what their life was like during Hitler, what freedoms were gradually taken away, what happened to the fabric of their society under Hitler, more the story behind the story. I think you'd be amazed at the parallels in our society and Nazi pre-war Germany.

[mikelewis]

35. No were not in a concentration camp - we're not arabs

[Emillereid]

37. Think Hitler 1933 -- no concentration camps -- and even people in the

ole US of A were singing his praises.

I don't know what direction Bushit's fascism will take -- but already there are well over 100,000 Iraqis dead and American prison camps from Cuba to Afghanistan and legal rationales for torture and permanent detention without trial. Already his administration has legislated away several of our basic rights. Already we have a major GOP spokesman (Delay) opening talking of destroying the opposition and having a one party state. We have right wing religious figures opening talking about making their perverted version of Christianity into something akin to a national religion and the literal translation of the Bible as the basis of our laws and culture. And you'd better believe that Bush is completely on board with all of it.

Like I said before I don't know how far Bush and his fanatical crowd will go -- whether there will ever be anything like concentration camps for us or not -- but my gut instinct is to see the strong possibility of worse to come and to stop these bastards now before their full transmogrification into their truly horrible form!

[Red State Blues]

27. B* scares the hell out of me, so

don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you need further study into Hitler?

Bush may very well turn out to be worse than Hitler, I just don't see it in your particular example.

[McCamy Taylor]

4. Huh? Hitler was the brains behind Hitler. Are the Neo-cons the new Hitler?

W. is just a figurehead, a spokesman, the "actor president" Gore Vidal described in Duluth. You can subtract W. and the Neo-Cons will march right along/

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. yes...

who's got cheney's strings?

[Wilms]

5. A discussion post? n/t

[O.M.B.inOhio]

6. Hitler exterminated millions

so the comaprison would appear to trivialize the Holocaust. That said, thousands of human beings in Guantanamo Bay have done nothing to belong in a concentration camp-like environment, and many will be there for their whole lives. Still, I prefer the compare him to Mussolini, partly because "Il Dufus" fits.

[Webster Green]

7. * * is just getting started....

Give him a chance, he'll catch up.

Wait till the little asshole starts lobbing nukes.

[TankLV]

40. First - the holocost happened in the later years of Hitler's dictatorship.

Second - GITMO already has a functioning death chamber.

It happened over a year ago.

Give bunkerboy and the repukes time. This is EARLY in Hitler's term. Even Hitler wasn't "Hitler" then.

[capriccio]

9. NRA anyone?

If Bush is Hitler, shouldn't we all be signing up?

[ngant17]

11. Bush is an "imperio- fascist".

I don't know if the Hitler analogy is fair. Hitler was a unique personality in world history, someone who rose from the ranks of the working poor. Bush really mostly a clone of the American aristocracy here.

If we can define Bush as an American fascist, I would think that we would be getting a much better classification. But that does not go far enough, because he is in control of a vast empire. I would coin the word, "imperio-fascist", which I would guess is a uniquely American phenonemon. I've combined two political ideologies here: imperialism and fascism, basically a hybrid of two of the worst kinds of human societies blended together.

So far he's been doing a skillful job in creating this imperio-fascist culture here, he has a lot of help, for sure.

The real danger for humanity is that Bush will probably have rationalized nuclear warfare and the use of his own WMD arsenal at some point in the near future. He already got away with some of it in the Iraq invasion. What's going to stop him now?

[snippy]

12. Ask Karl Rove. He was the first person to compare Bush to Hitler.

Of course Rove did it in an admiring and complimentary way.

Drudge excerpting from Woodward's book "Bush At War:

ROVE THOUGHT POST-9/11 WORLD SERIES GAME LIKE NAZI RALLY

"The president emerged wearing a New York Fire Department windbreaker. He raised his arm and gave a thumbs-up to the crowd on the third base side of the field. Probably 15,000 fans threw their arms in the air imitating the motion.

He then threw a strike from the rubber, and the stadium erupted. Watching from owner George Steinbrenner’s box, Karl Rove thought, It’s like being at a Nazi rally." (p. 277)

http://www.drudgereport.com/wood.htm (emphasis added).

[The Revolution]

13. Whoa...hadn't seen that before.

That's scary :scared:

[justgamma]

15. Yes he is.

Bush and Hitler gained power in the exact same way. They both used lies,religion, nationalism, militarism, and fear to win power. Don't forget Hitler was elected by the people. They had no idea where he was heading.
He made sure the opposition in elected offices knew that they had no voice in the running of the country. He started investigations against his opponents and accused them of being AntiGerman. The media was totally under his control and the ones that weren't were soon shut down.
The propaganda never stopped once he was elected. He wasn't content to just gain power, he had to make sure his supporters hated the other side so they could never gain power again. By the time people woke up and realized what was happening it was too late.

I'm not sure if Shrub is like Hitler, but I do know that Rove must have studied Hitlers playbook.

[mordarlar]

16. We have soo many signs of it now....

The following studied and found comparisons in the fascist regimes of several countries: Germany under the Nazis, Fascist Italy, Spain under Franco, Salazar's Portugal, Papadopoulos's Greece, Pinochet's Chile, and Suharto's Indonesia. The author found several things in common between each of these regimes:

1. An extreme nationalism, expressed by waving of flags, a near obsession (by politicians and by the populace) to show one's patriotism, an expressed desire for unity, extreme pride in the military, and xenophobia.

2. A view that human rights should take a back seat to the goals of the ruling elite. Those whose rights were being trampled were marginalized and/or demonized in the media, so that the populace could get used to "those people" being abused. When abuse became rampant, extreme secrecy was employed.

3. The use of designated scapegoats to deflect the populace's attention from other problems and issues. Relentless propaganda and disinformation were extremely effective in keeping the people's attention focused where the leaders wanted it focused: on those demonized "others".

4. Avid militarism, with a disproportionate share of government money going to support the war machine.

5. A controlled mass media.

6. Obsession withnational security. Even the most heinous acts were excused under the banner of "national security". Questioning the leaders' doings would lead to being branded as unpatriotic, perhaps even traitorous.

7. The predominant religion of the region becomes tied to the ruling elite.

8. Power of corporations was protected, even while ordinary citizents steadily lost more and more of their rights.

9. A general disdain of, and even suppression of, intellectualism and the arts.

This is meant to be only a brief summary of some of the points that were mentioned in the paper; more details and several more points are mentioned much more clearly than I can hope to in this brief post. Here is one of the many sites where you can read the entire text: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4113.htm

Just as an aside, the paper ends with a quote from Huey Long: "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag."

[CrispyQ]

20. When I read that 14 Characteristics list . . .

I fear for my country. I worry that it may be too late as it seems that we are so far along on so many of the items on the list. In fact I would say there is not one listing that the US hasn't capitulated to to some degree. Very frightening.

I sent this list to my repuke mother & her response? "Oh that's from a liberal site. You can't believe anything you read on a liberal site." Which makes me believe that she didn't even read it or dismissed it out of hand because how could you read this list & not see it becoming reality in this country? I fear she is too far gone, too.

[mordarlar]

34. As is my own mother. But there are cracks. I have limited my contact.

she is noticing. Each time we see each other i tell her it is my kids i fear for. And list reasons why. She is starting to listen. Not recommended for everyone lol but she knows better.

[femme.democratique]

19. That article needs to be corrected.

Inserted text of article with correction in bold:

Both men support Big Business. (War is only good for corporations and for increasing the budget of the Defense Department.) Both men came to power in a controversial manner: Hitler with the Reichstag fire, Bu$h with 9/11, the devastating terror attack that was sanctioned by his father, Poppy Bu$h.. Both men demanded blind loyalty and obedience. They both declared war on one country after another. Bu$h, on June 1st, at West Point, announced that the U.S. will strike first at our enemies (which now numbers sixty, or a third of the world.)

[Dancing_Dave]

21. Yes.

But unforturnately, Dubya has much worse Weapons of Mass Destruction, he can terminate life on this planet at any moment.:nopity:

[Time for change]

22. Interesting question

I think there are some significant differences. Bush's rhetoric is much more restrained, for one. But more fundamentally, I think that Bush is much more of a follower. So I would consider him more like one of Hitler's followeres than Hitler himself.

[EC]

23. We are comparing Hitler's end product

with *'s beginning...who knows how far it will go? The people he works for could be the very same that gave Hitler his strength...remember Prescott, provided the means, who provided the brain?

[Red State Blues]

25. Isn't it bad enough that he's another BUSH? n/t

[life_long_dem]

31. No shit, stupid fukin' American voters, Not DU voters, of course. n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

26. KKKarl Rove's grandfather a Nazi. Rove has dual citizenship

http://www.rense.com/general42/rove.htm

According to reliable sources, as well as our own Al Martin Raw.com investigation, Karl Rove is, in fact, the grandson of Karl Heinz Rover, the Gauleiter of Oldenburg (incorrectly reported previously as Mecklenberg).
Rove's grandfather Rover was evidently not only the Gauleiter, but the Reich-Statthalter (or governor, comparable to the Nazi State Party Chairman for the city-region), who was also a partner and senior engineer of a company which built Birkenau, the concentration camp in Nazi Germany.
So Karl Rove has been identified as the leaker responsible for the deaths of more than 70 CIA assets overseas (See previous story "Will the Real Chemical Ali Please Stand Up? The Curious Case of Ambassador Joseph Wilson)
When Ambassador Wilson was asked how he knew it was Rove, he had documents in his possession identifying Rove as the leaker from a secret investigation of the State Department's Internal; Security Unit. It was a from a small clique, four Clinton holdovers in that department of the State Department that were sympathetic to what had happened to Wilson.
<snip>
Wilson has announced that he will have his private attorneys petition the Department of Justice demanding that Roverer a/k/a Karl Rove be prosecuted under the 1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act . This law specifically supposed to prevent what has happened in this case and that is the Bush administration attempting to retaliate against a senior government official who tells the truth about that administration by revealing the identities of intelligence members within their own families.
This is a law that was specifically designed to prevent this from happening. It is a law that was proffered by the Democrats in 1982 that the Republicans fought and could not defeat. The law carries an automatic mandatory 10 years to life imprisonment as punishment.
And where would Rove go? Karl Rove, it should be noted, is a dual citizen of the United States and Germany. Because of his position he has special diplomatic status. The idea is that if its absolutely necessary he could go to Switzerland where he couldn't be extradited.
<snip>
This is very explosive and what makes it so explosive is that this Intelligence Identity Act, if it can be proved, and Rove can be successfully prosecuted and if Rove reveals that the president George Bush told him to institute this leak, then the President's automatic shield of immunity is removed and the president himself can be prosecuted for murder if any deaths of any US intelligence agents or assets resulted from the leak.

[PennyMan]

29. Sure Is Something The Way Things Fit Together Like A Puzzle

[lonestarnot]

30. Woohoo I like this info... wonder about how reliable it is.

[DieboldMustDie]

44. Unfortunately, that article is well over a year old...

and nothing has happened yet. :shrug:

[Shalom]

32. Bush Would Be Hitler, If He Only Applied Himself.... ;-)

[Bouvet_Island]

33. The Bush-Hitler link is not very good IMO.

Hitler was a fanatical vegetarian. His vision of the Third reich were a place were noone ate meat.

The anti intellectualism also was somehow dual, he loved art but then only of a certain type... Hitler went to art school, remember.

Hitler is also the symbol of both eugenics and race theories, I think you´d be hard pressed to stick any of those with Bush Jr. He is more signifcantly so than a symbol of transforming a well working democracy to something else, and that makes the idea of comparing them not so tasteful Imo. Oppressing the black vote isn´t necessarily racist, so to say.

While you could try stuff like super bowl=1936 olympics, and seal boots=moustache I don´t think it would really hold up, when discussing good and evil please mind the proportions.

I believe it gives him far too much credit, Hitler made an economic miracle happen with extremely radical economic policies, while Bush/Neocons are a study in mediocrity and wishful shortsightedness. I personally see them more as the dotcommers of world politics than true radicals, "rebels" with no cause.

Hitler was an incredible speaker and charismatic leader, fooling half the country slightly and half none is entirely different from fooling the entire country entirely.

Hitler didn´t employ fascism he employed national*sozialismus*, of which 1 of 2 are possible in the US. Big terrorism tax on gasoline and volounteer duct tape factories, I don´t think that would really work, they are tapping exactly as much nationalism as they are able too and making a big show out of it. Making water to wine, so to say as opposed to turning wineyards to factories.

What there is in the recent development in the US is that there is some Echo from that period, the same way Ukraine had some echo from the cold war east european revolutions which were entirely different species.

What they have in common is the antidemocratic spirit and some propaganda tactics, although there are problems with proportions if you want to go into it.

If you are, this idea is not dangerous to nothing but our own efforts IMNHO. Notice how weak the fascism argument was in convincing your mother of anything but that leftists are loony.

Bush needs to seemingly be working inside the system to most americans, this means that the systems can be used against him. A very dedicated activist movement that demands transparent elections and such for the right stated reason I believe will have a fair chance of limiting fraud down to below the win margin in 2008.

Rather compare him to Nixon if you want to frame him for rigging elections, Nixon rigged the Democratic nominations and was a Conspirator. He also got caught. If they say conspiracy theorists, you should say Nixon , not Hitler.

It´s great we can have rational discussion about this rather than what they have at some other websites.

[BamaBecky]

36. Today's NY Times article: Read it! It says it all!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/nyregion/06profile.html?oref=login&ex=buzzflash&oref=login&pagewanted=print&position=

[Bouvet_Island]

38. I don´t agree this says it all.

For example, it doesn´t say anything about how you make sure something like what happened in germany, doesn´t happen again. How you counter it.

You will not be able to read this in 1984 either.

That was my point.

If you think there is something to these theories you should read practical books about mass communication and psychology, not books about dystotopia.

The Bush Hitler idea holds a "progress can´t be stopped"-ness that IMHO isn´t useful just now.

I forgot to say the poor student link is very ridiculous, comparing the hardships of the presidents son with a worker that grew up in shame heh well.

[European Socialist]

41. I don't think he is Hitler...but

I do think he wants to take us back to a time like the late 1800's when rich people controlled everything-and workers were dirt.

[marcologico]

43. Worse, frankly. Hitler had sick and twisted ideals but he had some.

Bush is just a tool of the rich, like an undercover narc sent to bust mexican kids to get some asshole D.A. reelected.

Like Bernie Kerik come to think of it.