what income level is defined as middle class?

[gtp1976]

also, what defines "wealthy" and "poor?"

I know it is sometimes subjective. Is there an actual textbook definition?

[KurtNYC]

1. Congress defined Middle class as $90K/year

for a family of four. Let me see if I can find a link.

[UdoKier]

11. Wow. That's kinda high.

I'm sure no more than the top 30 or 40% make that much....


Shouldn't "middle class" be what MOST people make?

[KurtNYC]

14. Thats total household income

so for 2 income a combined total of $90K. Poster #2 (below) reports a similar number.

[UdoKier]

17. I realize that.

Let's say it's a husband with $50K and a wife with $40K - that is higher than most people I know, and not all households have 2 income earners.

I stand by my previous comment.

[Warpy]

2. Middle class has traditionally been defined as that class

that could afford household help and to invest, whether they choose to or not. One congressman (can't remember his name) put the minimum salary needed to be middle class at $200,000 during the Clinton administration. It's really about half that.

To be truly wealthy means that one doesn't have to work at all, that others are hired to look after the income generating investments, and that hiring others doesn't affect one's own lavish lifestyle. The rich use different airports, a different medical system, and different shopping methods, so we never see them. The price of admission into this rarefied club is about $10,000,000.

The poverty formula in the US has been out of date for years. It assumes a family spends about 1/3 of its total income for food. Well, the price of food has not inflated nearly as much as the price of everything else a family needs in terms of shelter, clothing, medical care and transportation. The average family earning subsistence spends 1/6 of its budget on food. The official figure is $18,000 for a family of four. That is destitution. The real figure for the poverty line is $36,000 for a family of four, and I suspect the majority of families in the US are below it.

One of the "successes" of both parties in Congress has been to redefine poverty downward. What they call poor is actually destitute, unable to achieve an income sufficient to meet one's needs to live. They have every reason to mask the truth about poverty in the US, and no reason to reveal it.

[prayin4rain]

5. I agree $36,000 a year family of four is living in absolute poverty.

$18,000 dollar family of four is barely living. I alone could not DREAM of living on $18,000 a year AND my dad pays for my car and insurance. I absolutely could not do it. And that is for one person.

I first heard these poverty line numbers a couple of years ago and I just could not believe it. I don't know how people are making it. It is disgusting. And these people who make millions are cheating on their taxes while thousands of children are going to bed hungry. Oh it is just such a disgrace!

[formernaderite]

13. It depends on where and how you live....

I have relatives in PA and NC that live on that and less, and manage to save. Their housing costs are REALLY low.

[UdoKier]

12. Well, I'd take issue with the food inflation part.

I'm spending a LOT more on food than 10 years ago. It's gotten very expensive. $5 for a gallon of milk here in SF!

And we all know how high housing is here, but I'm sure the cost of housing is getting very hard on people all over.

I spend more than half of my income on rent.

[hfojvt]

15. back in the 1880s, most people could afford household help

because there were alot of immigrants who basically worked for room and board.
Some of those congressman are jackasses when it comes to talking about poverty. I do not see a distinction between poverty and destitution, although admittedly Michael Harrington did.
Anybody who starts talking about the middle class as people who make $90,000 a year loses alot of respect in my eyes. No one seems to want to admit that they are rich, and sometimes even people making $150,000 a year are struggling finacially (according to Webster Hubbell). Sorry, but when you make more than my last twenty years of earnings in a single year, you are rich, not middle class. True, you are not on the Forbes 400, but those people are not rich, they are extremely super-rich.

[UdoKier]

18. What an absurd statement. Any documentation?

Could the "household help" afford help?

I agree with your other comments, but that first bit stuck in my craw.

Maybe you mean to say most white property owners could afford help.

Most people at that time were very poor in this country, many of them working for company scrip.

[Xithras]

19. Actually, the poster was mostly correct.

It should have been qualified as "most WORKING people", but the point still stands.

In the 1800's many immigrants came over with no more than the clothes on their backs, and without any form of public aid they were basically destitute. A lot of them, especially single women, basically hired themselves out for room, board, and a few cents a day.

Basically, if you could spare a corner for them to sleep in and support another mouth to feed, you could afford a servant. That pretty much included everybody except the base laborers.

[TahitiNut]

21. It is indeed absurd.

If most people could afford household help, then who the hell was doing the household help?

That's the kind of arithmetic illiteracy that's engendered by intellectually bankrupt phrases like "ownership society" - as though everyone can be an 'owner' and live off the labors of others. Where the hell do the others come from? The Land of Nod?

Yikes! :eyes:

[BlueEyedSon]

3. From the 2001 census

http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p60-218.pdf

Mean household income of quintiles (fifths):
Lowest: 10,136
Second: 25,468
Third: 42,629
Fourth: 66,839
Highest: 145,970

So the middle would be some cluster around 43k, or perhaps the span from the mean of the second quintile to the mean of the fourth (24.5k - 67k)..... YMMV

[uppityperson]

7. That's about what I considered it, but they need to have mortgage

$50,000-100,000 sounds like a good range, using an income classification. However, using a description classification: Middle class means they can buy a house, but need to have a mortgage. They can take a 2 week vacation (paid) each year, but not afford cruises or really good hotels, unless they don't have kids (which would put them into the uppermiddleclass section). They drive a several yr old car, but less than 10 yrs old. They have to consider money, but not be freaked out by it.


By income qualifications I am considered poverty level, since I one my place free and clear and don't need to make lots to pay off a mortgage. By description definition, I am middle class since I own my home, etc.

[BlueEyedSon]

9. I have since added a post defining middle class in terms of net worth.

[hfojvt]

16. I appreciate the numbers, but I prefer the threshholds to the means

As I have posted before, for 2001
109,297,000 households $17,970 $33,314 $53,000 $83,500 $150,499 (top 5%). Thus 80% are living on less than $83,500 and 60% on less than $53,000.
Your boundaries of $25-67,000 seem to have about 1/3 above and 1/3 below which sounds like a middle to me, but OP is correct in that it will vary from place to place. These are rough boundaries.

[BlueEyedSon]

20. Couldn't find the quintile bounds. Not that I looked too hard....

:)

[BlueEyedSon]

4. Judging from the various answers, I would guess it's pretty ill-defined!

[BlueEyedSon]

6. From Wikipedia

Most economists define "middle class" citizens as those with net worths of between $25,000 (low-middle class) to $250,000. However, net worths over $250,000 generally are not considered to be wealthy, yet rather, upper-middle-class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class

[gtp1976]

8. ...

wouldn't it also largely depend on where you live and the cost of living associated with it? example: some places an average 3 BR home would cost 90-110K other places in the millions.

[Deep13]

10. social standing, not just income

Middle class is a social standing more than an economic one. Middle class people usually have these things in common.
-They are usually licensed professionals, managers or skilled artisans rather than laborers. They are paid for their skills and ideas rather than their time.
-Their thinking is usually centered on professional matters. If someone asks you "what do you do" upon meeting you, that person is middle class.
-They are usually members of a mainstream Protestant church, especially Episcopal, though there are numerous exceptions esp. Catholic and Jewish.
-They typically own real estate rather than rent.
-They are usually more fit than the average local person.
-Extraprofessional interests are usually idea-based. Expect to see these publications at their homes: Time, Newsweek, Nat. Geographic, nationally known newspapers.
-Middle class men usually attend locally known private collages or major state universities. Middle class women usually attend locally known state colleges.
-Economic opportunities usually occur through social connections.
-Typically, middle class people do not change their own auto oil or hang clothes to dry, but often do their own home improvements.
-Usually non-smokers.
-Usually vote.

Lower class (a.k.a. working class) people have these things in common.
-Usually are laborers rather than professionals. They punch a clock.
-Their thinking is people-oriented rather than work oriented. Friends and relatives are the likely subjects of conversation.
-Lower class men often attend local state or community colleges. Lower class women usually do not attend college.
-Attend Catholic, Evangelical or marginal churches like Jehovah's Witnesses, AME &c.
-May rent or own real estate in the city.
-Often fatter than the average local. Often smoke.
-Non-work interests are often people-related. Expect to find these publications in a lower-class home: People, tabloids, TV Guide &c.
-Professions are less dependant on personal relationships than middle class.
-Lower voting frequency than middle class.

Upper class:
-Usually invisible and anonymous. The few that get involved with public or corporate office are the exceptions.
-Have no profession per se. Live on corporate earnings.
-Have upper class parents.
-Status is entirely dependant on social and family connections. Most likely questions upon meeting an upper class person will be concerning your family's lineage.
-Private education focusing on functioning in an upper class environment.
-Attend prestigious colleges seemingly by divine right.
-Highly influential politically. These people are the movers and shakers behind the scenes.
-Likely to be Episcopal, Unitarian or Christian Science.
-Personal interests are usually focused on specific subjects. Publications include specific interest titles.
-Very health conscious.

[newyawker99]

22. Hi Deep13!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[MountainLaurel]

23. Excellent delineations here

I want to throw out a book recommendation about what it's worth, about what happens when the classes collide on a personal level.