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Joseph Conrad Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:54 PM
Original message
Is this true about Kucinich: One of my Conservative friends informed me...
that Kucinich tried to get a bill passes that would ban mind control from space.

Here is the bill:


107th CONGRESS - 1st Session

H. R. 2977

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the
benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing
of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the
President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty
banning space-based weapons.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 2, 2001

Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred
to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees
on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to
be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for
consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction
of the committee concerned.

A BILL

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the
benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing
of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the
President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty
banning space-based weapons.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives
of the United States of America in Congress assembled,


SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2001'.


SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION
OF PEACE IN SPACE.
Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the
National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)),
stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in
space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit
of all mankind.'.


SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.
The President shall--
(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the
United States and remove from space any existing space-based
weapons of the United States; and
(2) immediately order the permanent termination of research and
development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment
of all space-based weapons of the United States and their
components.


SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.
The President shall direct the United States representatives to the
United Nations and other international organizations to immediately
work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing a world
agreement banning space-based weapons.


SEC. 5. REPORT.
The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after
the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter,
a report on--
(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based
weapons required by section 3; and
(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing
the agreement described in section 4.


SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.
Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use
of funds for--
(1) space exploration;
(2) space research and development;
(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to
space-based weapons or systems; or
(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications,
navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote
sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.



SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.
In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an
altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth
and any celestial body in such space.

(2)
(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device
capable of any of the following:
(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space,
in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--
(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;
(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity
to that object;
(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic
energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation,
plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency
(ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or
(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.
(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a
person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or
physical and economic well-being of a person)--
(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i)
or subparagraph (B);
(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based
systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic,
laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or
targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood
management, or mind control of such persons or populations;
or
(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity
of a person.


(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;


(ii) chemtrails;


(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;
(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and
(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.


(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons
designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as
the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather,
and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage
or destruction upon a target population or region on earth
or in space.

--------------------------------------

Now I have always supported Kucinich, but I'm not sure I would want to give my money to someone who reminds me of Lyndon Larouche (a definite wacko). Can someone try to clear things up for me, because now I'm starting to think Kucinich isn't perfectly sane.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. No, i think he's perfectly sane...
He's ensuring that no one will find a loophole in that bill in the future.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. yep
You said it Darr. Also even if this makes you feel iffy Joe, he has proposed an universal pre K-12 education plan.
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
43. Exactly; such as the second amendment.
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 07:38 PM by Touchdown
The right to bear arms was written with muskets (and swords, bayonets and knives) in mind. Gun powder packed with a steel pellet, into a very inaccurate gun that had little range. It was a one shot deal. Reloading after every shot wasn't as eficciently deadly as what we've got now.

Had the Constitution framers known that we would have highly accurate and reliable firearms that can spray bullets at the rate of 15 a second, and hit their targets at 400 meters, or more away...not to mention howitzers, grenades and launchers, gunships, tanks, stinger missiles, and computer controlled smart bombs, and weapons grade plutonium (which theoretically would all be legal under the 2nd Amendment, had we the money to afford them), they would be aghast.

So, what's in store for the future? Rail guns, particle weapons, shoulder mounted neutron missiles? Plasma guns, "ray" guns? All would be legal, if and when they are invented.

Remember, Capt. Kirk's communicator was fascinating back in the 60s. Now, everyone has access to cell phones even smaller than his. Anything's possible. We have to keep that in mind when writing legislation.
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SavageWombat Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are you saying...
... that you're in favor of the Orbital Mind Control Lasers?

Seriously, it's an anti-Space Based Weapons-law. The reference to "mind control" is probably a bit out there, but not impossible.

Remember - we learned in December of 2000 that if no one passes a law making it illegal to steal a presidential election, it's not a crime. Don't let another attack slip through a loophole.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. If the reference to "mind control" seems out there, why blame Kucinich?
Why not blame the predatory hogs at the trough who've introduced such language into the compendium of weaponry whose R&D is being funded by taxpayers??

It seems to me that anyone opposing Kucinich's legislation is taking a stance in favor of such taxpayer-funded specious R&D, since it's already written into appropriations and budgeting.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. In any event, "mind control" is not so far fetched
EM fields have been shown to create some very interesting emotional and hallucinatory reactions in people who are exposed to them. For anyone interested do a Google on Michael Persinger Ph.D.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
55. I know, but since that point was made ..
... I thought I'd show that this (blatantly disinformational) attempt to color Kucinich with the "out there" epithet is specious and disengenuous on two levels ... i.e. it's both not "out there" and it's not Kucinich who invented the notion.

I have yet to find a significant issue on which I disagree (or even quibble much) with the positions taken by Kucinich -- even his assertive ambivalence on prochoice+prolife. (This smells mightily of the smear campaign against Gore.)
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kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
44. It's really not that 'far out there.' Google 'H.A.A.R.P.'
You'll be quite surprised to see what the military intends to do with the upper atmosphere.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. That bill seems sane to me
When defining "weapons", it's best to have as broad a definition as possible.
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Keithpotkin Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. well...i think he is a nut bar
at least, he looks like one.

anyway...we ALL know that the mind control lasers have been in effect for years up at the north pole...seriously. :tinfoil:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
56. Of course you do, sweetie.
:eyes: (Same to ya, I'm sure.)
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Keithpotkin Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. well...i think he is a nut bar
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 05:01 PM by Keithpotkin
at least, he looks like one.

anyway...we ALL know that the mind control lasers have been in effect for years up at the north pole...seriously. :tinfoilhat:
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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. thats right...
its allll about looks isn't it...

Good thing Bush looks like a Rhode Scholar!
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Not irrational at all
esp. the bit about Mood Management.

I've had a major depressive disorder for my entire adult life. Doctors are now discovering that many of these are due to a chemical imbalance in the brain.

I don't think it's out of the question that there could be, some day, some way to alter a persons' brain chemistry using radiation or ultrasound or infrared light or some other "way out" means. In fact it's pretty frightening to think that our government would research or participate in such a thing.

Of course, these are the same folk who brought us the "Terrorist Futures Market" :eyes:

big shout out to wheresthemind (it's me, Dan the web guy. :))
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Tin-foils' cheap....keep it handy. Welcome n/t
*
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Better than "never imagining anyone would hijack planes to use as

weapons," isn't it? Imagine all the possibilities, even the impossibilities, and protect against them.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

Be sure to read the article about infrasound that deek and I both posted about below (deek tipped me off and then I posted a bit of it). Speaking of affecting the mind. . .
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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. hahaha
Hey Dan!

Glad to see you checked out DU! Everything I said it'd be and more huh?

Welcome!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
69. Hi no name no slogan!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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haymaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Typical.
So typical.
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Keithpotkin Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. typically genious
what? i think kuchinich is a nut bar...any rebuttals?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pretty sure that bans broadcasting of Fox News via satellite....
Fits all the parameters:

...through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based
systems
using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or
targeted populations
for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations;



Just an observation. Dennis is crazy like a.... Nah, I won't say it. :D
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Welcome to DU
Exactly what kind of conservative is your friend? Many of the conservatives I know have no problem the possibility of "mind control from outer space". :-)
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Do you pay taxes?
If so, you're already funding the 'wackos' at DARPA, DOD and the Pentagon who are trying to assess the viability of just such weapons programs!

You need to get out more. :evilgrin:
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. DARPA has a "Brain Machine Interface" program
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 05:26 PM by goobergunch
Perhaps the program that best exemplifies the “revolution” in Bio-Revolution is the Brain Machine Interface program (see Figure 13). This program is finding ways to detect and directly decode signals in the brain so that thoughts can be turned into acts performed by a machine. Essentially, this program is working on ways for machines to synchronize with minds and then act directly on thoughts. This has actually been demonstrated, to a limited degree, with a monkey that has been taught to move a computer mouse or a telerobotic arm simply by thinking about it. The long-term Defense implications of finding ways to turn thoughts into acts, if it can be developed, are enormous: imagine U.S. warfighters that only need use the power of their thoughts to do things at great distances.

http://www.darpa.mil/body/strategic_plan/strategic_text.htm
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. seems sane enough to me, nice broad coverage
nice try
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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. ugh
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 05:10 PM by wheresthemind
This is the second "a republican friend of mine told me _________ about Dennis" thread by a low count poster. Not to mention this one of the frequently debunked, few arguments, anti-Kucinich folk use.

I would say Dennis is in a better place to know what the shady government agencies and military contractors are working on then any of us as he is a sitting US Congressman and on a committee with jurisdiction over the Pentagon.

Besides, if they're not banned, what keeps someone from producing them and putting them into space?
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. hi umm can I just congrulate you
because I read that news article on you and if you check in politics/campaign I posted a thread for you. :hi: just wanted to say hello and keep up the good work and by chance did you hear about the universal pre K-12 education idea by Dennis. Totally awesome.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. which mind-control-from-space company do you work for?
just kidding, but seriously to call that legislation a ban on mind control reveals a pretty bad attempt to make Dennis look crazy.

There's nothing wrong with that bill.
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deek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. education is "a good thing"
This administration is obsessed with "exotic weapons systems" and space-based weapons/societal control.

Check out PNAC.

Read reliable scientific journals.

Also, check out this thread and read the article to which it refers:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=299962



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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Interesting article.

<snip>

British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills -- supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations."

<snip>

"The audience did not know which pieces included infrasound but 22 percent reported more unusual experiences when it was present in the music.
Their unusual experiences included feeling uneasy or sorrowful, getting chills down the spine or nervous feelings of revulsion or fear.

"These results suggest that low frequency sound can cause people to have unusual experiences even though they cannot consciously detect infrasound," said Wiseman, who presented his findings to the British Association science conference.

Infrasound is also produced by storms, seasonal winds and weather patterns and some types of earthquakes. Animals such as elephants also use infrasound to communicate over long distances or as weapons to repel foes. "


They hypothesize that infrasound accounts for experiences in "haunted" houses. I thought it was interesting that only 22% of their sample had "unusual experiences" when exposed to infrasound since it's always been asserted by "believers" in the paranormal that some people ("sensitives") are more receptive to paranormal experiences. I don't think I've ever seen an estimate of the percentage of "sensitives" in the population but this suggests that it's their sense of hearing that's sensitive, not some special sense.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. Dennis wants to protect us against the "Heart of Darkness"

that's found in PNACers. Remember John Poindexter's various "campaigns" within this administration? DARPA?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. ooooo...good one
:)
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Lord, Jim, there are evil doers who'd harm us if they could,

and some of them are weapons developers. ;-)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. You're killing me
:D
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
53. PNAC in Space ???!!!
I'm scared shitless.

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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. Sounds like terror in the air...Read this...
Mysteriously snuffed out candles, weird sensations and shivers down the spine may not be due to the presence of ghosts in haunted houses but to very low frequency sound that is inaudible to humans.

British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people, including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills - supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations.

"Normally you can't hear it," said Richard Lord, an acoustic scientist at the National Physical Laboratory in England who worked on the project.

Dr Lord and his colleagues, who produced infrasound with a seven-metre pipe and tested its impact on 750 people at a concert, said infrasound was also generated by natural phenomena.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/08/1062901994082.html
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E_Zapata Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. One PNAC goal is to secure SPACE for the US.
So a treaty would be a good thing.
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veganwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
39. yep
this is an anti-PNAC bill.
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Character Assassin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
26. Gentlemen, what we have here is a mind-control from space gap!
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. The whore-or, the whore-or
The media will probably make a big deal out this if they get the chance.

But, Joe, you knew this was true when you asked if it was true, right? You just wanted us to know it's true. Which we did, most of us. Gotta work on that sophistication thing, pardner.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Good call
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 06:09 PM by party_line
Kucinich isn't my first pick but I like him- he's genuine. AND he would be *exactly* the one that the right would want to ridicule most.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
33. Well, look what the cat dragged in.
:eyes:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
35. Why do you have conservative friends?
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Joseph Conrad Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Why not?
They're not lepers; they're just dumb. When I was a kid I had friends with Down's syndrome, too. I don't see what's wrong with it.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Downs Syndrome and conservative are two different things
I like people with DS,they're kind,loving and gentle.

Conservatives are completely the opposite.
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Joseph Conrad Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. They can get aggressive though.
Anyway, friends are friends. I'm not going one to break off connections with everyone who doesn't think like me. Leave that to the O'Reilly and Rush cultists.
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joycep Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Please do not compare people with Down's Syndrome
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 06:52 PM by joycep
with people who are trying to smear Kucinich and other Dems any way they can. People cannot help having Down's but they (the people who do this sort of thing) don't have to pass around lies and goofy stuff. People can educate themselves if they want to.
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twilight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
41. Be afraid, be very afraid ... hahaaaaa!!!!!
Hot off the campaign trail I just received this news:

------------------------------------------

Fellow Kucitizens,

Brian Willson reports that the NEWSDAY readers' poll shows Dennis with 52% over Dean's 35% out of 12,000 votes. Good news!!

GO DK GO!!!

BE WORRIED LAMER!!! HAHAAAA!!!!!

:dem:
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
42. it is too bad you must associate Kucinich that way
but that only speaks to your conservative bias

The rest of this bill is a very positive effort to keep space from becoming weaponized. Now, I know you Republicans love your toys, but maybe we could keep the nukes and lasers out of the sky. ONE time!
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Joseph Conrad Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. I don't have a conservative bias
I am a far-left, pro-Trotskyist internationalist.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. internationalist?
as in the US should take over the world and bring it capitalism? That kind of Trotskyist?
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Joseph Conrad Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. as in
the US should join the world in bringing about socialism to the masses.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. so, you're schizophrenic
as well as idiotic?
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Trotsky's idealogy centered on the community not on the world.
Edited on Mon Sep-08-03 08:33 PM by burr
He feared international destruction of the community, the use of huge world owned corporations destroying local values, farms, and shops. He believed that if the community made the decisions on distributing wealth, enforcing civil law, and planning for its future that everywhere..governments would whither away from lack of demand. Hence the name Communism.

Communism was slowly perverted into Stalinism, putting national organizations in Moscow before the local communities. The same has happened to capitalism and democracy in this country.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #45
60. Of course he's sane. Think about it. What are your specific concerns?
Edited on Tue Sep-09-03 01:04 AM by Tinoire

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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. All it takes is a spectrum analyzer set to the alpha brainwave rate.
"II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based
systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic,
laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or
targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood
management, or mind control of such persons or populations;"....

This frequency observed for any length of time by the human eye with vidio equipment has a hypnotic effect on the observer. Hence such frequences could be used to broadcast signals by military satellites in orbit, to control the minds of those analyzing and listening to these frequencies.

It can be done in any telecommunications lab, but I don't recommend it! It would be a good way to be nailed by the FCC. It's no accident that Michael Powell is their chairman.
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birdman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
52. How do the other candidates feel about space-based mind control weapons
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burr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Go ahead....
as long as it doesn't become a witchhunt.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-08-03 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. The fact that you were told by a conservative
should have alerted you to its veracity.

BTW, do you have a link for this?

You should have gone to THOMAS to verify it!
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. It's a true bill / Canada introduced a similar bill
Following the September 11 terrorist attacks Bush's requested $8.3 billion in 2002 for Star Wars research and development. This was easily passed in Congress by both Democrats and Republicans. This was a 40% increase for Bush's aerospace corporation allies. We've been upgrading testing facilities in Alaska and Hawaii in addition to those already in California, Florida, and the Marshall Islands.

The Pentagon was allotted more than $343 billion for fiscal year 2002. Over the next 10 years, we'll be spenind over $3.5 trillion on the military. For this we're cutting funds in the Depts of Agriculture, Commerce, Energy (non-military), Interior, Justice, Labor, Transportation and Environmental Protection.

It was immiately after Bush announced he was breaking the ABM treaty that Kucinich introduced this bill.

Here is a list of some of the groups who supported this at the time most Americans were waving flags like they'd lost their minds.
http://www.globenet.free-online.co.uk/articles/kucinichsupport.htm

----------------

"The time has come to ban the further weaponization of space," Congressman Kucinich said. "We must work toward the elimination of all nuclear weapons, and an end to policies which cause this country to move toward the weaponization of space. I was pleased with the recent news from our neighbor to the north that Canada is ready to join an international effort to prohibit weapons in space. It is time for the United States to take the lead and end the weaponization of space."

Kucinich said the argument that supporters of weaponization use claiming our national security and commercial interests would be put at risk are fear tactics backed by greed. "We signed the ABM treaty nearly 30 years ago; which requires a reduction in strategic arms, nuclear disarmament and general and complete disarmament. Weaponization of space clearly violates that treaty. My bill will call for an immediate and permanent termination of research, testing, manufacturing, production and deployment of all space-based weapons systems and components by any person, agency or contractor of the U.S. government."

Kucinich to Introduce Legislation to Ban Weaponization of Space @ House.gov

--------------------

For Immediate Release Contact: Kathie Scarrah
July 18, 2001

(202)226-8139


Floor Statement Of Congressman Kucinich
Against The Weaponization of Space

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH-10), spoke on the House floor on Wednesday against the weaponization of space

The news from the Administration is that there is an intention to weaponize space; to deploy space-based missile defenses, which would be a clear violation of the 1972 ABM treaty. In 1972, the Russians and the United States signed an agreement, which provided for the cessation of the nuclear arms race and to take effective measures towards reductions in strategic arms, nuclear disarmament and general and complete disarmament.

On May 26, 1972 the two great powers agreed, we’d get rid of nuclear weapons. But in the last week, we’ve had an Administration have its first test of its missile shield. And now they’re discussing the weaponization of space. We began our session today with a prayer, and the prayer should continue to be, ”Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven”. I don’t think it is the will of the Divine to end this world in a nuclear conflagration, we should work towards the elimination of all nuclear weapons, and we should work for an end to policies which cause this country to move toward the weaponization of space.

http://www.house.gov/kucinich/press/pr010718a.htm (find=space for this exercise )

Other statements here: http://www.house.gov/kucinich/press/press2001.htm (find=mind control for this exercise )


More info/links here: http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~welsh/


Permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States .... it's how the world should be. (Ein- a smart DU poster)



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Ein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
59. MKUltra
forgive him for trying...
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Hey!
I quoted you in post 58... You are so cool! :) Peace
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #61
66. you both are
some of the coolest people Ive met on DU
Cass thank you for really getting me involved in Kucinich and sending me that stuff and Ein Ive head some great discussions with you about like Marxism and history.
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
62. Kucinich listens even to the tinfoil hat people
Good for Dennis.



:tinfoilhat: < thank you Dennis.

Mike
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Rather that than anyone listening to and working with the PNAC/AEI folks
Edited on Tue Sep-09-03 01:48 AM by Tinoire
who are pushing for this weaponization to the world's horror.

You know... like that guy who's a member of the Markle Foundation- The Task Force on National Security in the Information Age.

What's his name again? The guy being "drafted"?

Of course you know exactly...
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. What happened to the endless handwringing
about too many attacks on candidates at DU? All that hectoring about lining up behind all candidates instead of doing Rove's job? And this:
"My Candidate Sucks So Bad That I Have To Attack Yours"
So do tell, who's your sucky candidate?
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. Geez, take a joke would you.
I was kidding. I like Dennis. But that was very silly of him to write this bill that states that the US Government cannot put mind controling devices in space or use Alien technology. That is funny. Even if you like the guy, LOL.

Mike
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frank frankly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
64. Good for Kucinich
google "MK-ULTRA" if you think he's wrong to make this an issue

good work, Dennis. he is an outstanding member of Congress and unafraid to bring up things that will get you McKinneyed.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 05:31 AM
Response to Original message
68. Even if you (mistakenly) think the mind control bit is far-fetched...
Edited on Tue Sep-09-03 05:37 AM by 0rganism
...99% of the bill refers to other matters which are within range of current technologies.

You know all those scientists Reagan got cranking on space-based weaponry in the '80s? JUST WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY DID? Drive around the desert in their Porsches, thinking of ways to fake grant requests and journal articles? I can tell you one thing for certain: they weren't working on missile defense only, because at cold-war levels of armament, any notion of a functional effective space-based ABM system was completely and admittedly out of reach. The government can be wastrel, but the scientists themselves tend to have a solid work ethic.

I lived in Los Alamos during that time, and everything mentioned in that bill including "mind control" was an open topic for research & development at LANL. You think "mind control" is some kind of tinfoil bullshit? Think again. There are ways to use subsonic pulses to cause nervousness and nausea that are in the experimental stages for use as "crowd control". The only practical limit on its implementation as a space-based weapon is the power required to cause a compression wave from orbit. And if one is precisely targetting an individual occupying a square meter of ground rather than a large crowd, the power requirement is very-much reduced.

Mind control need not be some precise sci-fi "ESP" message transmission or personality take-over to be effective.
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. It was the space alien technology that gave me a chuckle
I think HBO, MTV, FAUX News, are mind control. I also understand the nuclear weapons bit as well.

I would be surprised if this passes. This only works to the disadvantage of the USA. Nigeria is not building space weapons. I also think it is a bad idea not to have weapons that could be used to stop a giant piece of rock from slamming into the earth. If he even gets close to cinching the nomination this be used against him. He should not touched this legislation until after he was no longer running. I just think it is not working in his favor. :)

Mike
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-09-03 07:14 AM
Response to Original message
70. even if you don't buy into the possibility of mind control
from space, the rest of the Bill dead on.

DK is no whacko.
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