Here is a question for DU supporters of the war in Iraq. Do you support

[hansolsen]

permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq??

If you do support such bases, I would like to hear your rationale for such a policy.

If not, do you think the coalition government will hold together for very long??

And if we do leave soon, what will be the long term result of the war in Iraq on Israeli security??

[bluestateguy]

1. DU supporters of the war in Iraq?

This is just a sympathy kick to prevent this from quickly dropping into the archives. ;)

[seabeyond]

2. was thinking the same thing, lo lol lol n/t

[hansolsen]

6. Oh I understand that 90% of DU is against the war in Iraq, but it is the

other 10% that worries me. I am talking about the DU cohert that believes Israel can do no wrong and any policy that helps Israel is a good policy.

One can always find the occassional DU supporter of Joe Lieberman, for example, and plenty of DU bloggers preferred kerry over Dean because Kerry voted for the war and Dean didn't.

I just think the DU contingent that supports the war are often afraid to state their case and defend the obvious inconsistencies in their position. If I'm wrong, someone can step up and prove it.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

46. Well, speaking for the enlightened 10 percent,

I don't think we're afraid to state our case. For me at least, it can be tiresome trying to reason with a brick wall. It's taxing trying to move the debate beyond "Bush is an evil neo-con warmonger." Getting the majority to realize that this war, and the WOT in bigger than Bush (and Rumsfeld, and Condi Rice) is a taxing job, but I'll take up the charge.

[smoogatz]

4. Speak up, now. Both of you.

[hansolsen]

7. Remember - 8% of all registered Dems voted for Shrub, and plenty of

DU bloggers preferred Kerry over Dean. I simply ask those folks to step up and defend themselves.

[Lone Pawn]

10. I preferred Kerry over Dean.

I think Dean--if he even managed to get elected--would have been a marginalized, lame-duck president from inception. He'd have a hostile Congress that he had absolutely no contacts in--Democrat and Republican. Kerry has been a figure in Congress for some time now, and knows how to get things actually accomplished--when to give and when to take. Mostly, though, I simply thought Dean was painting himself as too liberal and too youth-oriented to win the general election--in his drive to capture the DU crowd, he turned himself into a parody of a liberal to everyone else.

And you certainly won't find the shrub-voters on DU. In fact, by DU's ToS, Bush-voters will be kicked off.

[hansolsen]

17. And as a supporter of Kerry, how do you feel about permanent U.S. bases

in Iraq? How do you feel now about Kerry's vote for the war resolution? How do you feel about Kerry's abject rolling over to Shrub's position on Settlements, the Right of Return, etc? And how do you feel about supporting war hawk, Hillary Clinton?

[Lone Pawn]

25. Fine. You want an argument?

I'm for permanent U.S. bases in Iraq, because I think that our national strategic vision requires them. I believe that quite simply put, Mr. Bush has destabilized the Middle East to a terrible extent--see the million-strong protests in Lebanon (and imagine them armed) both for and against Syria if you need a clue as to what might be coming. I think that we have a duty to the world to right our wrongs, and I think most importantly that simply throwing the Middle East to the dogs as we did to Africa after WW2 would turn the region into another Africa. I don't want to see another part of the world collapse, though it may be too late, especially as the oil economy collapses. Until then, though, power projection may have advantage in keeping Iraq from linking too closely with Iran--if Iraq goes as I see it going once the US withdraws, we've created the proverbial Shia crescent from Iran to Syria/Lebanon, and we've suddenly got the ancient Sunni/Shia feud relaunched--but this time with the remaining few oil fields at stake. I'm for bases because I can think more than six months ahead.

I feel now about the IWR as I felt then--a terrible idea that will get us into a massive mess.

I feel rolling over on Israel was a good idea. The American people for better or for worse support Israel, and we have bigger fights to challenge the administration on than Israel/Palestine. Pick your battles, man.

And I don't support Hillary, nor will I unless she becomes the nominee and the Republican nominee is not John McCain.

[hansolsen]

40. I don't want an argument per se. I just want to see the color of the

stripes of folks who think staying there any longer is a good idea and that all of this mess will really help Israel. I am looking for signs that this contingent is starting to get a little shaky in their convictions, and might welcome some brave new approach.

P.S. Thanks for the response -- I appreciate it. And I do admire John McCain too. I would have voted for him over John Kerry for example.

[Lone Pawn]

41. I see. Each person has their own justification,

and I can easily understand the viewpoints of people who advocate withdrawal.

[ElectroPrincess]

44. USA Embassy & permanent U.S. bases in Iraq = TARGETS /eom

[Lone Pawn]

48. It's rather difficult to attack a military base that's sitting

in the middle of nowhere. It's not like you can just sneak up on it or anything. I mean, it's in the desert.

[ElectroPrincess]

50. Hold that thought :-)

[Ironpost]

24. What you're saying sounds like what was said about Clinton in '92

[Bouncy Ball]

31. ROFL smoogatz.

Just what I was thinking when I came upon your post. Both of you, LOL!

[ulysses]

23. oh, they exist. n/t

[peacetalksforall]

3. We are planning on bases between the Mediterranean and the

Himalayas.

We should not invade them with bases. We have no right to do that. Decency and diplomacy would call for the country of Iraq to settle down, then extend an invitation. But that is impossible because we invaded them and we do NOTHING to help them get stabilized because it is not in our cabal's best interest.

There are no plans to leave soon except for this thread of reasons...children, youth, young adults and their parents who are being slaughtered and crushed with pain of the soul, mind, immune syste, limbs, organs, bodies and life opportunities to live in peace and prosper as humans were meant to. Only when the people wake up and realize how we are destorying humanity...with we get out.

The cabal-admin are imperialistic invaders for greedy reasons that benefit only a few. They are a predator and killer of children, youth, and young adults.

Just like Vietnam.

[hansolsen]

8. Of course -- so you and I agree. But what of all those DU bloggers who

don't agree? Where are they?? Why the silence?? Are they all off celebrating the fact that Israel can now build its barrier fence any damn place it wants to build the fence??

[Lone Pawn]

5. FR is a much better place to ask that.

You won't find a whole lot of supporters here.

[hansolsen]

9. I'm not looking for "supporters". I oppose U.S. bases in Iraq. I am just

tired of Dem politicians like john Kerry supporting Likud policies in the middle east that are premised on keeping U.S. military forces in the region to inflict our will on the people.

Where are all the DU bloggers who supported John Kerry when Kerry voted for the war in Iraq and seconded every word Bush had to say about U.S. policy toward Israel?? Where are they all now???

[Lone Pawn]

11. You're looking for people who support the invasion to argue with you

And you won't find many, if any, of them here.

Kerry voters did not necessarily support the invasion. Some people vote practical instead of ideal.

[hansolsen]

14. Yes but plenty of Kerry voters did support the war in Iraq, and so do many

people who now are enamored with Hillary Clinton, who also voted for the war and sounds like a war hawk to me. Line Hillary, Bill and Shrub up on a line and ask them what we should do in the middle east to support Israel, and I defy you to find an ounce of difference.

For me, that's a problem. And I am constantly amazed at how many DU bloggers seem oblivious to this convergence strategy with current Dem leadership all lined up in support of Bush's policies in support of Israel.

[Bouncy Ball]

32. I was a Kerry voter and I've never supported the war in Iraq.

His vote for it was the thing I was most unhappy about but of course I voted for him.

Look at my choice. Ech.

[troubleinwinter]

12. Oh, I get it now. It's another Kerry bashing thread. Mmmkay.

[hansolsen]

15. No, it is more a Hillary bashing thread, and an open invitation to debate.

[VelvetMonkeyWrench]

13. IMHO...

"support" is a kinda bogus term to use at this point in time - it is what it is, the point for backing away is way past.

Bases? I wouldn't want them. There are NATO bases in Turkey that are probably close enough anyway, and I don't think the Kuwaitis are all that upset about us being camped out on their turf given the general nuttiness of the Iranians mullahs.

It would be nice if we could just disengage militarily from that whole area of the world. If shrub's "grand-unification-theory" regional democracy gamble actually works out, maybe we can someday. I won't hold my breath waiting for it though ;-> The middle east is a regular graveyard for grand plans and schemes.

[hansolsen]

18. Well you take a conveniently soft "position" on all this, but our next

candidate for President will need to decide if this nation can continue to afford to be the world's policeman and spend more on military hardware and soldiers on the ground than the rest of the world combined.

My view is we cannot afford it, and we will by necessity pull our forces out of the middle east sooner or later. And when we do, those damn fools who counted on us being there forever are going to roast in a hell of their own making. That's what I think.

[VelvetMonkeyWrench]

21. Sorry if my position is "soft" but...

...my crystal ball is a bit cloudy today, and the Ouija board has been acting up lately ;->

I keep thinking about that famous line from Buckaroo Banzi - "wherever you go, there you are".

We went to Iraq, now were are there - and that's a fact.

[Dcitizen]

16. How?

US has two wars in Iraq against Iraqi rebels and a new breed of terrorists. Iraq became the heaven for terrorists after the invasion.

We can withdraw from the war against Iraqi nationalist rebels but not for against international terrorists, and they seem corelate together (?). So, if we cant not leave our security to the hands of new Iraq government, or nationalist rebels vs terrorists tatics, then maybe US must stay there or Afgan foreever until all terrorists are destroyed!

[hansolsen]

19. So I take you are in favor of permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq, and

your justification is that we must stay to fight the "terrorists".

Never mind the fact that our presence there guarantees more terroists, not less, and we cannot kill every terrorist.

Have you given any consideration to addressing the root causes of "terrorism" Have you considered changing U.S. policy in the region which is slanted too hard in favor of Israel, and in favor of local dictators??

Doesn't policy change offer more real hope of ending terrorism than keeping troops on the ground in a desert shooting gallery forever??

[Dcitizen]

30. Definitely not a tiny of my favor solution from the beginning and

if they promise they like your carrots.

[Ms. Clio]

35. Is English not your first language?

"Definitely not a tiny of my favor solution from the beginning and if they promise they like your carrots."

This makes no sense whatsoever--perhaps you could repost in your native tongue and somebody could translate it for you.

[Dcitizen]

37. No comment.

[Ms. Clio]

43. Then I will take it that English is, in fact, not your first language

Maybe not even your second.

[hansolsen]

38. Are you drunk?? N/T

[Dcitizen]

47. No, hansolsen, link

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-01-14-voa48.cfm
http://intelligence.senate.gov/0502hrg/050216/goss.pdf

[Lone Pawn]

49. He's talking about your extremely poor English, not the truth of what

you're saying.

Hell, I have no idea how what you wrote is connected to what you linked.

[Lone Pawn]

42. I really, really, really don't understand what that means.

Please, either explain if English is your first language or post in your native language if it isn't.

[DireStrike]

20. "until all terrorists are destroyed"

When does that happen?

And I'm not asking this just because you don't know the specific date. My point is that it will never happen.

[Dcitizen]

22. maybe forever!

[Lone Pawn]

26. It happens "maybe forever!"? That doesn't even make grammatical sense!

[Lone Pawn]

27. Um...were you awake whilst writing that?

Can you do us a favor next time and make sure that at least one subject matches its verb? Also, please define the following, as they really don't make sense in any known language.

"The heaven for terrorists" (they're dead?)

"not for against" (WTF, mate?)

"we cant not leave our security"

"stay Afghan foreever!"

[meganmonkey]

29. LMFAO

What a night this is.

I've been laughing hysterically on thread after thread....

:P

[WilliamPitt]

33. I just wet myself a little bit

:)

[katinmn]

36. LOL!

The question posed was bound to draw out this response.

[Jacobin]

28. Oh. My. Goodness.

Words fail me.


:eyes:

[Bouncy Ball]

34. So. LOL. Have you found a DU supporter of the war in Iraq yet?

No?

That's because there probably aren't any here. Seriously.

[hansolsen]

39. No, not one willing to admit they supported the war from the beginning.

I believe we have one or two content with keeping the troops there forever now that we are there. Here is my question for them:

What happens when the newly elected Islamic fundamentalist regime in Iraq tell us to get the fuck out? What then of all our grand plans for spreading democracy at the point of a gun?

Anybody wanna take bets on how that is going to work out our friends in Israel??

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

45. Well, as a supporter of the Iraq war, I'd say that

having Saddam gone makes Israel more secure. Having a free Iraq makes Israel moer secure. We have permament bases all over. That's something we're going to have to deal with. We have bases in Germany and Japan as well.