Dispelling myths on Terri Shiavo's Medical condition....

[Solon]

OK, a couple of things, I'll try to simplify the explanation down to a few points, and two, I know this is like the 10 thousandth post on this, but anyways.

Myth Number one: Brains can be regenerated.

OK, this one is the big one, the Brain is a resilient organ, it has to be, it is the most important reason humans are humans, and why we survived. But there are a few things you must know about the Brain, first, and this is important, beyond the developmental stage, no neurons reproduce, there is no cell splitting, and no regenerating, period. The Brain can bypass damaged areas and relearn old skills and techniques, but only by using preexisting, adjacent, living brain tissue to bypass the area of dead brain tissue. Unfortunately in TS's case, there is not enough brain tissue left for higher brain function, there isn't enough tissue to learn any skills, no visual cortex, no memories, no awareness.
Yes, theoretically, this can be circumvented by using Stem Cells, however, even that wouldn't help in Ms. Shiavo's case, all of her memories and consciousness are gone, any new brain tissue wouldn't be configured the way her brain was before it was deprived of oxygen, she is, for all intents and purposes, gone. In such a case a new consciousness, independant of the old one, would arise, but not Terri.

Myth Number two: She Breathes on her own, heart beats, reflexes, reactions, etc. she is conscious dammit!

OK, this has to do with ignorance of the basic functions of the Brain and what certian parts of it do. To simplify it, there are two basic "orders" to the Brain, Higher and Lower functions. Higher functions usually govern long term memory, short term memory, thinking and other activities. Lower functions usually govern our "involuntary" responses and upkeep of the body. This would include our Heart beats, Breathing rates, basic reactions to stimuli, and reflexes. Sometimes these combine with our higher brain functions to give us interesting results, such as higher heart rates and blood pressure when watching a scary movie, etc.

However, none of these lower functions REQUIRE our higher functions to work. They act, most of the time, quite independantly from our consciousness. Yes, you can let's say slow your breathing, hold your breath, or even slow your heart rythums. With practice that can all be under our conscious control, you can "force" yourself to hold your hand on a hot plate, even if the lower brain wants to take it away, we do similar things all the time. But as I said earlier, the lower brain doesn't require the rest to function properly.

Even in her case it is worst than that, for not all of the "reptilian" lower brain has survived. You can literally stab her hand with a nine inch blade, all the way through, and she wouldn't feel it, nor even flinch, or indeed, react in any way to this. Motor control is largely gone, as is the sections of the brain for both emotion and feeling pain. No offense, but at this point, the bearded dragon I have downstairs has more cognitive ability than she does right now.

Is this comparison meant as an insult, no of course not, just an illustration to make a point. Terri Shiavo is, as an individual, dead already, she is not "Brain Dead" for not all of it is dead, however, her consciousness has been gone for a long time. Depending on your beliefs her soul is either already in Heaven, or in stasis, stuck on Earth until the body expires.

[shraby]

1. May I add that

since the brain has to process the information the eyes and ears take in, she probably doesn't see or hear either. Any reactions to noise are the self preservation reflexes from the brain stem.

This is my thinking on it anyway.

[Solon]

3. True, I did mention no visual cortex...

She is blind and deaf, but not due to physical damage to those organs, but rather because the sections of the brain dedicated to processing the information are gone.

[liberal43110]

2. Great audio clip on this

I just posted this in another post, but here's a repeat:

Another DU poster recommended this NPR piece, and I agree that it's great: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=45...

It's a half-hour audio piece in which 2 neurologists discuss many of the differences of brain states like persistent vegetative state, coma, and minimally conscious state.

For example, here's what I learned: in the coma state, the patient displays neither wakefullness nor awareness; in the persistent vegetative state, the patient displays wakefullness but not awareness (which makes it the hardest for people to understand, especially unless you've seen it in many patients).

I recommend listening to it highly!

[Solon]

5. I'll listen to it...

That is one thing I didn't touch upon, in comas, as an example, a person can have most of the brain intact, they can even dream, but being aware of their surroundings is negligable. They are unconscious but not lacking in consciousness, if that makes sense. In PVS similar, more mysterious things can happen, one section of the brain can be technically isolated from another, causeing you not to lose consciousness, but at the same time, lose self awareness or control over your body. Depending on brain damage, your brain can rewire itself so you either wake up(in a coma) or regain cognitive abilities in PVS. TS simply doesn't have enough brain to compensate for lost abilities, it is sadly that simple.

[liberal43110]

7. Thanks for your input

It sounds like you have specialized knowledge on the subject...in any case, I think you'll enjoy the half-hour audio.

Sadly, NPR offers an in-depth type of news sadly lacking elsewhere.

[Solon]

8. No, I'm an armchair scholar on all things I'm interested in...

I'm no neurologist, just using info I read or heard that came from guys much smarter than me and put it in terms I can somewhat understand. I try, that's all I do, wouldn't call it specialized at all, need a history lesson, look me up, need help with computers, again look me up, Science, Math, and Religion, same deal, however, need help in English, can't help you there, I sucked at English in school, haven't improved much since then either. :)

ON EDIT: On another note, personal experience counts alot, to give an example, I have permenant nerve damage in my left shoulder, causing my ring and pinky finger in my left hand to tingle, like their asleep all the time. I was able to get motor control back, however, the damage to the nerves are permenant, unfortunately, I could only imagine what that type of damage does to a brain. In my case, I can't hope for new nerves to grow to compensate for the "pins and needles" effect I go through now. Its tolerable, and I have full use of the arm, just a discomfort now.

[liberal43110]

9. I get that same feeling

...but just in the smallest three fingers on my left hand, so I feel for you! Much of my knowledge on the subject also comes from a genuine interest in learning..not to mention the time that I had to make the decision to remove the feeding tube from my father. The situation was tremendously painful, of course, but the decision was actually quite easy to make. I knew it was the right thing, and I knew I was doing the best thing I could for someone I loved.

[Solon]

10. Thanks, its a weird feeling...

Worse in the morning, but fades as the day goes by, I get used to it. Woke up in excrusiating pain one day, and low and behold, pinched nerve, from previous injury no less, "anything that happened in the past" is what the doc said. I think it was a rear end auto accident I was in the year before, it was pretty bad for me(car was fine, still drive it, good gas mileage), had "Shaken Baby Syndrom" (concussion), inflamed chest wall, and cartilage around sternum was messed up. Could have been worse, if I didn't have the seat belt on, but I was the driver, and it was over the left shoulder, definate possibility, but tell that to the insurance company. :shrug:

[liberal43110]

11. Yeesh

Mine isn't nearly as bad as yours. When mine started, it was out of the blue, and most of my left hand felt really, really "asleep" and it was driving me crazy. The feeling has diminished and is no longer constant, but it still happens almost every evening.

:nopity: There's my sad story!

[Solon]

12. I appreciate the sentiment, I feel for you too...

Its not like we're comparing battle scars, though I have some bike accident ones if you want to know about them. :D But seriously, nerve damage of any sort is nothing to laugh at, I should know of course, it could hide a worse condition, I just hope you went to a doc to get it looked at.

OH, BTW: Even worse, I'm a Southpaw, handwriting is aggrivating, and that motor control is still slowly coming back. At least that's the excuse I use now for my bad handwriting :)

[Cleita]

4. It's information like this that the media should be educating

the public with. They are so much a part of this problem just cashing in on the sensationalism without any hard journalistic reporting. If only there was a way to take back at least one of the cable news channels and one of the broadcast channel news departments. If they aired unbiased news and programs that present information on the topics of the day so that the ordinary person can understand what is going on, I'll bet they would be the only stations watched within six months of their establishment.

Thanks for putting this up here. Too bad CNN et al aren't running information on this on an hourly basis as part of their journalistic duty.

[Solon]

6. I wish, but their job is to be ratings hogs, nothing more or less...

with the exception of not speaking out against their corporate masters of course. Like today, on local news, they talked about Terri being given morphine to "ease the pain" yet didn't touch upon this being standard procedure to ease the families mind, because her mind is simply incapable of feeling such sensations anymore. Not to mention that the process of dying, in her case, would have been painless, regardless as to whether her brain was capable of processing the info.